US Politics -- Where Candidates Fall like Leaves

[Bonesy]

The whole process is fucking stupid due to the electoral college and staggered primaries which both* ceased to make any sense as soon as information flowed at the speed of electrons.

I don't know how to replace the electoral college* as it was meant to disallow uninformed voters to sway elections, and we now live in a world of misinformation, but staggered primaries need to go away.

Also, all general elections should have the same closing based on GMT.

East coast bias is irritating when it comes to sports; it should be illegal when it comes to elections.

* I realize the contradiction here

[Shryke]

Staggered primaries can actually be a good thing. They aren't at all rendered obsolete by modern communications speeds.

The general argument for them is that they allow lesser known candidates to build momentum in primaries by winning a few early and thus leveraging that into increased support in later ones. All primaries on the same day heavily favours established candidates with national-level name recognition. 

This, for instance, is how Obama beat Clinton back in 2008. His early wins turned him into a national name and helped his support surge by proving that he could win primaries. And later, proving that he could win white votes. If all primaries were on the same day, he loses to Clinton almost certainly.

How much you care about that kind of thing is, obviously, up to you but it's a big factor.

 

If you are keeping staggered primaries, the order of primaries should definitely be changed though. It won't happen because everyone is afraid of pissing off Iowa and New Hampshire, but the set order is fucking stupid and leads to lots of political distortions.

[Shryke]

Also for voting Canada used to disallow results being released or reported on before voting closed in the west. The Cons got rid of that cause they are shitheads.

[Lord Mord]

Shryke,

I've never understood that point, about pissing off Iowa and New Hampshire.  What is that supposed to look like, when it happens?  They'll secede?  They're two among fifty and 4.4 million among 300 million.  So what if they don't like it?

[Bonesy]

Staggered primaries can be a good thing, as you say.

But Iowa and New Hampshire? That's ridiculous.

If we have to have staggered primaries, maybe have Ohio, Virginia go first?

[Paladin of Ice]

BLM participants and eyewitnesses on the scene say they were beating and chasing these people who opened fire on them. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3-XIGJZMEI&feature=youtu.be

innocent people who are attending a BLM rally, showing their support and solidarity, carrying signs to show their support, being beat on by the crowd, called white supremists, and then chased as they flee for their very lives. opening fire to defend their lives. 

being discriminated against for their skin color. a terrible tragedy. someone needs to reign in these BLM racists. beating on and threatening innocent white life in the streets of minneapolis. 

About that...

It was not immediately clear who was behind the attack, but several racially disparaging comments had been posted on social media in recent days. One video showed a white man brandishing a gun while claiming to be on his way to the protests. Police issued a warning Friday night, asking demonstrators to be vigilant and report any suspicious behavior to authorities.

The protesters had a safety plan, and security team members had been asking people who looked like troublemakers to leave.

Fourteen people whom protesters believed to be white supremacists were kicked out of the area one night, said Mica Grimm, an organizer of Black Lives Matter Minneapolis. She said they came in with their faces covered and filmed the crowd but would not talk to people. Some made racist comments.

...

Grimm said protesters had been threatened by one group online and had been working with hackers to figure out the group's plans.

Link

At least some of the men arrested in connection with the shooting had shown up at the Black Lives Matter protests more than once.

When about a dozen protesters attempted to herd the men away from the scene on Monday, witnesses said, the gunfire began and five protesters were hit. The victims — all black men ages 19 through 43 — were taken to hospitals. Their injuries were not life-threatening.

In a subsequent incident early Wednesday morning, police responded to a “shots fired” activation from the city’s ShotSpotter equipment in the area near the Fourth Precinct station.

The 12:40 a.m. report came from near the 1300 blocks of Newton and Morgan avenues N. No one was injured; suspects were stopped and identified by officers and one man was booked into jail. His name had not yet been released. A police department spokesman said he didn’t know if the shots were related to the protest.

Hennepin County Attorney Mike Freeman said the deadline extension for charges will expire at noon Monday.

The four men appear to have become acquainted in school and at meetups through “/k/,” a popular weapons-related message board with racist overtones on the website 4chan.

...

Scarsella, Gustavsson and Macey, along with the man who was questioned and released, are featured in several videos of a now-deleted YouTube page. The page’s banner featured two dozen men — some masked — holding weapons, along with a pair of Confederate flags. The videos were deleted by Monday afternoon, but they had been archived by Minneapolis-based researcher Tony Webster.

Another video emerged as part of a live stream filmed at the protests Friday by the man known as “SaigaMarine,” who was later questioned and released by police.

“If I get in trouble for yelling ‘master race,’ there’s only one final solution,” he said in the video.

A masked man accompanying him who resembles Scarsella then enters the frame and joins protesters dancing to a hip-hop song.

“Oh, my God, he’s gonna die, guys. He’s been culturally enriched,” the man filming says. “I can’t do anything for him. I’m going to have to shoot him.”

Link

Video appears to show two of the suspects, who wore masks and identified themselves as “Saiga Marine” and “Black Powder Ranger,” driving to the protest Friday and using racist language as they promised to disrupt the protests.

“We are on our way, we’re going to knock this shit out,” said the driver, who identified himself as Saiga Marine and displays a handgun. “F*ck — and we’re going to see what these dindus are dinduing about.”

The word “dindu” is a racial slur derived from “dindu nuffin” — a pejorative term that originated on 4Chan’s /pol/ forum to complain about participants in the last year’s protests and riots.

Emails posted online appear to show the men planning their activities, and protesters complained for several days that masked white men wearing military-style clothing had been recording video and harassing demonstrators camped near the Fourth Precinct.

...

Gustavsson’s Facebook profile picture shows him wearing a Belgian army jacket and holding a rifle, and Macey’s Facebook page has not been verified.

But Scarsella’s Facebook photo shows a mole above his eyebrow that suggests he is the passenger who calls himself Black Powder Ranger in the video.

Scarella’s cover photo shows “Bonnie Blue” Confederate flag, captioned, “This isn’t the somalian flag, (by the way).”

He lists among his “like” several gun shops and pro-gun groups associated with the III Percent militia movement, as well as the OAF Nation military veterans militia group.

The fourth man’s Facebook page shows him carrying weapons and wearing military gear, and he describes his occupation as “Saving the Constitution,” reported the Star Tribune.

The newspaper reported that the man, whose name was not officially released, bears a striking resemblance to the driver who calls himself Saiga Marine.

He appears to be a well-known, although not particularly well-liked, on 4chan’s /k/ weapons discussion forum — where he used the same name he called himself while driving to the protest.

“What an idiot,” one 4chan user wrote when news broke of his possible involvement in the shootings. “Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Never should’ve trolled that protest so hard.”

Link

How difficult it must for for these poor dears, to be judged by the color of their skin. If only there was somebody who understood their plight...

[Shryke]

Shryke,

I've never understood that point, about pissing off Iowa and New Hampshire.  What is that supposed to look like, when it happens?  They'll secede?  They're two among fifty and 4.4 million among 300 million.  So what if they don't like it?

They go for the other party in the general. Neither party wants to pull the trigger and tell Iowa and NH they aren't special because they are afraid it will cost them the state. Such is the fear.

On top of that there is also the internal primary issues in that if the DNC does strip either state of it's position, candidates will then fight over giving it back cause it basically guarantees you a primary win in that state.

There's just generally alot of incentives to pander to them and little gain for either parties or individuals for fixing the system.

[ThinkerX]

And the fun and games continue in Chicagoland:

 

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/protesters-to-target-chicago-shopping-area-on-black-friday/ar-BBnnGO1

 

The comments range from 'disgust' to 'race war time.'

[ThinkerX]

Hmmm...

 

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/these-armed-civilians-are-patrolling-the-border-to-keep-isis-out-of-america/ar-AAfHabf?ocid=msnclassic

Tim “Nailer” Foley was more than 5,000 miles away from Paris when Islamic State terrorists launched a series of coordinated attacks throughout the French capital, killing 130 people and injuring hundreds more. But Foley — a former construction foreman who now spends his days with a band of heavily armed civilians, voluntarily patrolling the some of the most remote and dangerous stretches of the U.S.-Mexico border — wasn’t surprised.

For years now, Foley said, he’s been warning the FBI that sprinkled among the groups of immigrants he intercepts illegally crossing the border are foreign nationals who aren’t from Mexico.

“We have pictures from trail cameras that show Somalis and Middle Eastern guys with beards and everything else, but nobody is listening,” Foley told The Washington Post this week. “We’re going to have something like Paris had. It’s not a matter of if, but when.”

 

To join Arizona Border Recon, volunteers must fill out an application, pass a background check and abide by strict rules of engagement, Foley told The Post. “We want to make sure you’re not a sexual predator or prohibited possessor, and by doing this it shows the Border Patrol agents that we have a sense of professionalism and they don’t have to sit there and wonder, ‘Who are these guys?'” he said.

[Wise Fool]

Trump apparently mocked a physically disabled person working for the NY Times. Trump denies having done so... and demands an apology from the Times.

Fuck Trump. Seriously. Fuck this guy. I don't even care if he doesn't win the nomination or the presidency and fades into semi-obscure status until next time he gears up for the clown show - fuck him, fuck everything he believes, fuck everything he stands for, fuck all his supporters, and fuck his wealthy, privileged, whiny, lazy, entitled piece of shit bigotry.

[Bonesy]

co-fucking-signed

[Gertrude]

Personally, I would love to see the primaries change schedule for each cycle. Midwest states within one window, west coast in the next window of time, etc. then just switch up which block of states gets to go first next. I'm begging, please - take it away from Iowa. Then again, I am not directly making money off the influx of advertising and campaign expenditures, so Í'm not the one you need to convince.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

Right, but this is an irrelevant factoid. It's lacking any sort of predictive power because there's no causal mechanism identified or shown. It's just a random correlation.

Oh I totally agree. My point was don't count your chickens before they hatch. Just because the GOP may elect a nut job doesn't mean it's in the bag for the Dems.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

Personally, I would love to see the primaries change schedule for each cycle. Midwest states within one window, west coast in the next window of time, etc. then just switch up which block of states gets to go first next. I'm begging, please - take it away from Iowa. Then again, I am not directly making money off the influx of advertising and campaign expenditures, so Í'm not the one you need to convince.

Personally, I think the whole process needs to be redone, and not just at the presidential level. The way we select our candidates is insane, with only 15% of the electorate participating. No wonder most people hate both candidates.

[White Walker Texas Ranger]

Personally, I think the whole process needs to be redone, and not just at the presidential level. The way we select our candidates is insane, with only 15% of the electorate participating. No wonder most people hate both candidates.

Given that the biggest non establishment candidate is Donald Trump, I think it's a good thing that most people aren't voting.

[Guest]

Speaking of Trump's nastiness, TPM has a piece here which stems from some Frank Luntz research.

The conclusion is that there really is nothing Trump can do which would turn off his supporters.  Mocking a disabled person magically turns into Trump having been unfairly treated by the biased media which now owes Trump and his supporters an apology. 

[TrackerNeil]

Speaking of Trump's nastiness, TPM has a piece here which stems from some Frank Luntz research.

The conclusion is that there really is nothing Trump can do which would turn off his supporters.  Mocking a disabled person magically turns into Trump having been unfairly treated by the biased media which now owes Trump and his supporters an apology. 

Totally. And if Trump makes a statement of fact that is later called into question, why he can just say that the evidence is being covered up by the "lamestream" media. Conservatives already think that the media are arrayed alongside the forces of liberalism, so they'll eagerly accept any suggestion of their involvement in a mass conspiracy. 

[HexMachina]

I usually just read the US politics threads in an attempt to keep vaguely in the know, but that Trump article even made it into the free paper in the UK today. Ugh, it would be a sad sad day for the US and the world if that awful excuse of a human being ever became President

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

Totally. And if Trump makes a statement of fact that is later called into question, why he can just say that the evidence is being covered up by the "lamestream" media. Conservatives already think that the media are arrayed alongside the forces of liberalism, so they'll eagerly accept any suggestion of their involvement in a mass conspiracy. 

How do you account for him calling Fox part of the lamestream media? That was one of the strangest developments about his candidacy.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

I usually just read the US politics threads in an attempt to keep vaguely in the know, but that Trump article even made it into the free paper in the UK today. Ugh, it would be a sad sad day for the US and the world if that awful excuse of a human being ever became President

As crazy as it sounds, he might be the most reasonable Republican candidate that has a chance at the nomination, setting aside his hateful and bigoted comments.