Magnar of Skagos Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 22 minutes ago, briantw said: Does anyone here use Scrivener? I picked it up (it's not very expensive) at the suggestion of one of my old friends and former creative collaborators from high school who I still keep in touch with and it seems really useful. I love the cork board style and the ability to create folders. It's great for keeping track of settings, scenes/chapters, and characters. I can definitely see this as being incredibly helpful when composing a story, especially in instances where I come up with a new idea or character name and can hop to the appropriate area, type it down, and then hop back to the document itself to keep doing whatever I was working on. I've heard about it but have yet to check it out. For my planning I use the document map function in Word, which lets me create headings and categories to put all my stuff under. I have some 10,000 words in notes all categorized using it. it's a big help, especially when creating a work of fantasy with a load of world-building and characters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceChampion Posted February 4, 2016 Author Share Posted February 4, 2016 If you have a Linux system Scrivener is available as a free beta. The company that makes it was kind enough to convert their Windows version for it, however the current version is the last one they'll release for Linux. They put a lot of effort into solving some of the bugs before releasing it, and it no longer expires like previous Linux versions did. Some of the more obscure things in it don't work (like importing a webpage so you don't have to open a browser to access your research -- that would have been awesome combined with a site like Evernote, especially since Evernote can be used to clip out the nonessential portions of a webpage). But the most important aspects of it works. Great for exporting your novel to several ebook formats if you're self-publishing. And of course if you need those other functions the Windows version can be used in Wine on a Linux system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrackerNeil Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 I'm a fan of Scrivener, because in the Mac version you can compare the current document to a snap-shotted version and see the changes, which is really useful when you're working with a coauthor. You can also create .mobi and .epub files with a minimum of fuss. So, yay Scrivener! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briantw Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 1 minute ago, TrackerNeil said: I'm a fan of Scrivener, because in the Mac version you can compare the current document to a snap-shotted version and see the changes, which is really useful when you're working with a coauthor. You can also create .mobi and .epub files with a minimum of fuss. So, yay Scrivener! I really like how easy it is to shift scenes/chapters around. I don't always write things in order, because sometimes you have an idea and you need to write it down before you forget, or because I often go in to a story with the beginning and end in mind and write those first then flesh out the middle piece by piece, and it's great to just shift a card over to position the new content where you want rather than relying on copy/paste. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrackerNeil Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 6 minutes ago, briantw said: I really like how easy it is to shift scenes/chapters around. I don't always write things in order, because sometimes you have an idea and you need to write it down before you forget, or because I often go in to a story with the beginning and end in mind and write those first then flesh out the middle piece by piece, and it's great to just shift a card over to position the new content where you want rather than relying on copy/paste. YES! Cut-and-paste is the work of Satan. Also, you can give each section a status, which my coauthor and I use all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Marquis de Leech Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 10 hours ago, TrackerNeil said: YES! Cut-and-paste is the work of Satan. Also, you can give each section a status, which my coauthor and I use all the time. I use cut and paste without much problem. The people I feel sorry for are the poor bastards who used manual typewriters (fun fact - J.R.R. Tolkien typed up the entire The Lord of the Rings twice, on a manual typewriter, as a two finger typist. He did this in the evenings since he also had a day job). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnar of Skagos Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 7 minutes ago, Roose Boltons Pet Leech said: I use cut and paste without much problem. The people I feel sorry for are the poor bastards who used manual typewriters (fun fact - J.R.R. Tolkien typed up the entire The Lord of the Rings twice, on a manual typewriter, as a two finger typist. He did this in the evenings since he also had a day job). Same here. I'm just used to it, I guess. And unfamiliar things scare me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briantw Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 7 minutes ago, Roose Boltons Pet Leech said: I use cut and paste without much problem. The people I feel sorry for are the poor bastards who used manual typewriters (fun fact - J.R.R. Tolkien typed up the entire The Lord of the Rings twice, on a manual typewriter, as a two finger typist. He did this in the evenings since he also had a day job). I don't think cut and paste is really that much of a problem, but when you can just easily grab a scene and move it without having to worry about not highlighting it all or highlighting too much, that's an improvement. You can also name and describe scenes in Scrivener, which adds to the ease at which you can maneuver them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnar of Skagos Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 12 hours ago, Rcollins said: I alternate between MS Word and a fountain pen with a composition notebook. Call me a computer bumpkin I suppose, but I prefer to think of myself as pre-postmodern retro before it's even a thing. That's right... You sound like the guy to take his typewriter into Starbucks Haha, just teasing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnar of Skagos Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 17 minutes ago, Rcollins said: Laugh it up funny man, when the grid goes down we'll see whose still writing... I actually know a girl who does that though... Imagine if pretension was a person, then take away anything resembling talent and that's her. Not going to lie, I have never laughed out loud at a forum post before in my life until now And are you serious? People actually do that? I always thought it was a joke designed to exaggerate "hipster sub-culture". This is amazing to find out its true haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starkess Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 I just use Word and Excel. Works for me, but I know a lot of people really like Scrivener. I think it is less of a draw for me because I write linearly, following an outline, and don't usually make too drastic of changes during revisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aniel Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 Ugh. I bought some ink cartridges for my fountain pen (I didn't want to buy bottled ink while I was out of the country) and somehow only 2/5 fit the pen...? I looked at them and the ones that don't fit are noticeably thicker than the two that did fit, but only on the end that goes with the nib. So it's impossible to insert the cartridges fully. I decided I'm just going to run with bottled ink now that I'm home. I googled fountain pen ink to find places where I might buy it from, and the first result was the Iroshizuku ink that Rcollins suggested. "Great!" I think. "I guess I'll order some. Let's just make sure I can aff-" My heart sinks when I see my balance. With almost two weeks left to payday I have to limit my spending, especially as I have to buy my month-long train ticket right on the day I get my salary. Despite the fact that I already realized there was no way I'd be able to buy both, I open the calculator app and enter my current balance, then subtract the price for the ticket. I had always been bad at math, after all. Unfortunately for me, this time I was right. No ink for me. A giggle slips out. A frustrated giggle. The kind that should you ever hear it, it's time to back away slowly lest you want to witness a person's slow descent into madness. The giggle that will turn into maniacal laughter as some dramatic orchestral piece plays in the background. Beethoven's 5th, maybe. I run my fingers through my hair trying to collect myself enough to write a stupid forum post to vent my frustration. All because I cannot get some ink for another two weeks. Truly a modern tragedy. THE END. (No, I don't ham it up like that in my usual writing. I was going to be even more dramatic and long-winded but it's past 4 am, so no.) I found a way to write that works for me, somehow. I wrote a little by hand when I was in the US, so after a couple of weeks of being at home and not really touching the story after I wrote it all in my word document I decided to continue writing by hand. I got out my fountain pen and wrote almost a full chapter in just a couple of days. I just ran out of ink. The weird part is that while I'm writing I'm also playing the Sims 3. It works somehow. There are the occasional breaks when some sim decides to be an idiot, but otherwise I can just sit and write when I've got everyone's action queues full of activities. One part of this chapter I wrote needs some pretty serious rewriting, mostly because it's stupid plotwise (do not write royal council scenes with no idea what the council is even about, kids), but I've made good progress so I'm kind of happy about it anyway. I'm definitely continuing with the whole writing by hand thing once I get more ink, and I'll probably do it in my super fancy notebook that I was going to write other story-stuff in but whatever. Would it be crazy if I did it in cursive? I like cursive. I'm not great at it, because I don't practice, but I practiced some with the fountain pen and it's just so flowy (and pretty when I don't fail) and feels nice while my regular handwriting looks like some sort of unholy mixture between print and cursive and occasionally slants backwards. My SO tried to decipher my handwriting by reading what I wrote when I visited him. It kind of sounded like that My Immortal fanfic where masturbating becomes masticating, and fun stuff like that. I just found a place where I wrote "eyebrows" but it totally looks like "egcbröus". I think the thing that upsets me the most with this whole ink deal is that I'm going to have to finish the chapter I was working on with the shittiest ballpoint pen that I've ever used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerol Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 There's something about the fantasy genre that vexes me. We are told again and again that to get published, word count should be no higher than 120K. I got the first book to about 114K but only after killing a significant amount of my darlings. I was fine with that. Right now I'm writing a different first chapter and then it's back to soliciting agents. But I see again and again debut novels that are well above 120K. How do they do it? Obviously you have to a damn good writer but how does one convince an agent or publisher to even look at the damn thing? I've scrimped on plot lines, descriptions of places and characters, dialog, etc to a point where one of my beta readers said, "it just feels that there's so much missing". Aaaaaargh. I can do that, I can flesh things out but it would at least cost me removing on entire plot line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrackerNeil Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 1 hour ago, Jerol said: There's something about the fantasy genre that vexes me. We are told again and again that to get published, word count should be no higher than 120K. You'd never know it from what you see on the shelves. My goodness, but some of these fantasy novels are huge! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selysin Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 I think it depends on the size of the publisher. The bigger ones can afford to take the risk (and because they took the risk they then commit to making it work) and they're also the ones who we see in bookshops whereas the smaller ones impose the 120k limit but can't get into the bookshops. It is very annoying though. I'm trying to find an agent/publisher and I have two manuscripts that I think are ready. I decided to go with the shorter one because it is the shorter one (114k vs 150k) not because of the quality of the writing or the strength of the plot/characters. That said I did submit the longer one during the open submission periods at Angry Robot and Gollancz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Marquis de Leech Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 3 hours ago, Jerol said: There's something about the fantasy genre that vexes me. We are told again and again that to get published, word count should be no higher than 120K. I got the first book to about 114K but only after killing a significant amount of my darlings. I was fine with that. Right now I'm writing a different first chapter and then it's back to soliciting agents. But I see again and again debut novels that are well above 120K. How do they do it? Obviously you have to a damn good writer but how does one convince an agent or publisher to even look at the damn thing? I've scrimped on plot lines, descriptions of places and characters, dialog, etc to a point where one of my beta readers said, "it just feels that there's so much missing". Aaaaaargh. I can do that, I can flesh things out but it would at least cost me removing on entire plot line. - Fantasy (especially epic fantasy) is actually more tolerant of high word-counts than other genres. - There's a trade-off going on here. As you increase the size of the book, the reader gets more bang for their buck, but the physical book becomes more expensive to produce (and thus more risky for the publisher). Since first-time authors are the riskiest proposition, you can understand an imposition of a rule of thumb - there's certainly an established trend that your first book is shorter than subsequent ones, even if your name is J.R.R. Tolkien, J.K. Rowling, or Stephen King. - Formatting is a funny thing, and depending on stuff like margins, a book may seem longer than it actually is. - "Saying more with less" is a really good skill to have anyway. Ultimately, if your book is supremely awesome, you'll eventually find a publisher even if it's 250k (the 120k thing, to borrow from Pirates of the Caribbean, is more of a guideline). You just have to make sure that the story needs to be 250k, and cannot be cut further. If all else fails, you can always try expanding your book out to 150k - allowing you to cut the thing in two and query it as a duology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Writhen Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 On 2/6/2016 at 7:18 PM, Rcollins said: I actually know a girl who does that though... Imagine if pretension was a person, then take away anything resembling talent and that's her. Nice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Writhen Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 2 minutes ago, Rcollins said: She's actually a very nice person, but she loves the idea of being a writer more than she actually likes writing itself. Doesn't help that she's also really bad at it... That's actually quite prevalent, I have found ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briantw Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 I'm really digging Scrivener. It's just so useful for actually plotting out a story in the same program that you write it in, and is also excellent for keeping track of characters. The only thing I dislike is how it formats screenplays, which is what I'm working on right now. It doesn't really seem to understand where page breaks should occur and where they shouldn't. For example, you'll see a character name for dialogue but all the actual dialogue is on the next page when the page break obviously should have been before the character name instead. It's a little annoying to have to copy everything over into Final Draft to get it to format correctly. Still, all the positives for plotting out the story and characters outweigh that one negative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerol Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 Obviously I have been remiss in writing an epic weird west/steampunk fantasy. I'm going to scrap it all and do either a South Korean webtoon or a Japanese web novel. That's what really sells! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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