Comics XII: All New, All Twelve

[GallowKnight]

Well I think we have established before that you and I have completely different opinions on Snyder and his work on Batman. However I should point out that I love vol 1 of American Vampire and think it's a fantastic comic book and I was pretty disappointed when Snyder put it on a year-long hiatus.

Regarding the name The Gray Trader, I think it's just a painfully generic name that is meant to evoke a certain sense of mystique. Kind of like "The Man In Black" or "The Thin White Duke".

[red snow]

On 29/01/2016 at 0:01 AM, CyanidePie said:

Yeah, but I don't consider Tom King a "promising" writer. Tom King is blowing everyone else out of the water, and is one of the best writers in the business. 

People felt exactly the same about Bendis when he was working on Daredevil and doing image comics.

Plus I doubt there's much editorial interfence regarding what he can do with Grayson and Omega men. When you start writing big franchise characters there is a lot less freedom - especially if you haven't had a mega hit (sales not reviews). This isn't taking anything away from Tom King but pointing out how it's a lot tougher on the big titles to do whatever you want. Omega men could be an Image comic in terms of what he's probably allowed to do.

Robert Kirkman never made much of an impression at Marvel (maybe ant-man but it wasn't "successful") but it's clear he can write hits with his Image work. Geoff Johns had an awful time at Marvel compared to DC but I guess that's more a writer being better with one set of characters/house-style. It's good for King that he's able to write for both Marvel and DC - something he probably wouldn't be able to if he were to start writing "Batman" as DC would probably make him exclusive (or not write for marvel which is basically what it means).

For all that he could walk onto a big book and be amazing - I think Snyder was probably at about the same level when he got Detective comics and it worked out well for him

 

 

As a totally separate issue, Saga was a good issue this month. The Will seems a bit strange (and meatier) than when we last saw him. I'm trying to remember where lying cat is though.

[Ouroboros]

42 minutes ago, red snow said:

Geoff Johns had an awful time at Marvel compared to DC but I guess that's more a writer being better with one set of characters/house-style.

Geoff Johns' problem was that he worked the Avengers and likes them, while at the time Marvel had no real interest in trying to grow the Avengers as a brand. The X-Men and Spider-Man was still their bread and butter, leaving Johns n the fringe despite writing what is now a corner stone part of the Marvel line. But his work while he was at Marvel and on the Avengers, short as it was, was very good.

Marvel just didn't invest in him so he jumped ship for greener pastures.

[Red Tiger]

On 28-1-2016 at 10:57 PM, red snow said:

Careful what you wish, a lot of promising writers drop off in quality when they hit the flagship titles - possibly because they have to play it safer. He does seem a rising star though

Subtle shot at Rick Remender?

[red snow]

2 hours ago, Ouroboros said:

Geoff Johns' problem was that he worked the Avengers and likes them, while at the time Marvel had no real interest in trying to grow the Avengers as a brand. The X-Men and Spider-Man was still their bread and butter, leaving Johns n the fringe despite writing what is now a corner stone part of the Marvel line. But his work while he was at Marvel and on the Avengers, short as it was, was very good.

Marvel just didn't invest in him so he jumped ship for greener pastures.

I'd like to see the alt-world where Johns got to develop the Avengers instead of Green Lantern, etc and Bendis wound up working on Batman.

2 hours ago, Red Tiger said:

Subtle shot at Rick Remender?

That's a good call - I discounted him because of uncanny x-force but it's true his higher profile gigs were disappointing. Luckily he seems to have channelled into his Image books - although I guess it may be he was more invested in creator owned by that point.

Dan Slott seems to be one of the rare examples where he seemed to be at the top of his game on his highest profile gig. I guess it could be that he clearly loves Spider-man and the editor trusts him - even if fans initially are scared by his ideas they usually pay off. He must be getting towards one of the longest runs in modern comics on a marvel/DC title? Hope I didn't just jinx it but it says a lot how he continually survives the regular Marvel relaunch/reboot events.

[Red Tiger]

38 minutes ago, red snow said:

I'd like to see the alt-world where Johns got to develop the Avengers instead of Green Lantern, etc and Bendis wound up working on Batman.

That's a good call - I discounted him because of uncanny x-force but it's true his higher profile gigs were disappointing. Luckily he seems to have channelled into his Image books - although I guess it may be he was more invested in creator owned by that point.

I am reading Tokyo Ghost, I love it.

[red snow]

24 minutes ago, Red Tiger said:

I am reading Tokyo Ghost, I love it.

The end of the first arc was definitely not what I was expecting

[Red Tiger]

3 minutes ago, red snow said:

The end of the first arc was definitely not what I was expecting

Agreed

Spoiler

Though when Led went back to using drugs, I knew some shit was gonna go down, but basically blowing up the whole community? Nah, I didn't see that coming. Big balls there, Remender.

 

[red snow]

42 minutes ago, Red Tiger said:

Agreed

  Hide contents

Though when Led went back to using drugs, I knew some shit was gonna go down, but basically blowing up the whole community? Nah, I didn't see that coming. Big balls there, Remender.

 

I'm also wondering if the female lead is dead? One possibility is that she made it look like the whole community was destroyed in order to save it? I get the impression that all the tech-heads reality can be manipulated. So while I'm looking forward to seeing how Led deals with his actions I think we'll see the town again. Although it was still virtually destroyed by Led anyhow. 

[The King in Black]

Writers working wonders on creator-owned or small scale stuff going onto to big books is tricky. Often this has nothing to do with any sort of deterioration in the writer's work, but instead changes in the work environment. Even on a prominent yet not prominent enough character, writers often have a lot of leeway, infact are encouraged to explore new directions, yet when it comes to your Superman or Batman, you don't really have a lot of space to work with (I'm not entirely blaming the higher-ups here; fans can be a real bitch if even a minor addition does not please them or their idea of the character. It's interesting that way; you can have a Female Thor, but not a female Batman. That would result in fucking pandemonium. Screw sex change, even if Bruce Wayne got married and settled down there would arise a village full of haters complaining how this is ruining DC (mind you not just Batman, but all of DC). )

 

Anyway, recently I did a little re-read of that time Grant Morrison probably hypnotized the DC editorial to let him do what he wanted. Starting from JLA, the Batman run, and Final Crisis. Figuring out the right reading order was a bitch, mainly because this stuff overlaps too damn much to be able to properly figure it all out. But as much a pain in the ass this had been, I have to say it was worth it. In it's entirety that is one amazing and crazy story, one of the best I've ever read.

[Red Tiger]

57 minutes ago, red snow said:

 

Hidden Content

 

Spoiler

Nah, I dont believe she is. Kill her and you have no story, outside of that community, she's the only one who's tech-free.

 

[red snow]

52 minutes ago, The King In Black said:

Writers working wonders on creator-owned or small scale stuff going onto to big books is tricky. Often this has nothing to do with any sort of deterioration in the writer's work, but instead changes in the work environment. Even on a prominent yet not prominent enough character, writers often have a lot of leeway, infact are encouraged to explore new directions, yet when it comes to your Superman or Batman, you don't really have a lot of space to work with (I'm not entirely blaming the higher-ups here; fans can be a real bitch if even a minor addition does not please them or their idea of the character. It's interesting that way; you can have a Female Thor, but not a female Batman. That would result in fucking pandemonium. Screw sex change, even if Bruce Wayne got married and settled down there would arise a village full of haters complaining how this is ruining DC (mind you not just Batman, but all of DC). )

 

Anyway, recently I did a little re-read of that time Grant Morrison probably hypnotized the DC editorial to let him do what he wanted. Starting from JLA, the Batman run, and Final Crisis. Figuring out the right reading order was a bitch, mainly because this stuff overlaps too damn much to be able to properly figure it all out. But as much a pain in the ass this had been, I have to say it was worth it. In it's entirety that is one amazing and crazy story, one of the best I've ever read.

If they had a female batman they'd give her her own title

But we are on the same page regarding the limitations of the big characters. Like you say, it's a billion dollar franchise if you include films, etc  - these characters have to be looked after. You're also correct with the fans getting upset if Batman/superman killed someone or got married etc. They've done these things with Spider-man and they've never worked out. Unless you're Slott.

Morrison is sort of the Dan Slott of DC/Batman in that he got away with making some big changes. It helps that both of them brought increased sales along with the stories too.

I suspect Morrison may be capable of hypnotising editors. I suspect Didio/higher editorial are simply a massive fans of Morrison and enjoys reading his stuff as much as the regular fans.

12 minutes ago, Red Tiger said:

  Hide contents

Nah, I dont believe she is. Kill her and you have no story, outside of that community, she's the only one who's tech-free.

 

It's a shame we have to wait 2 months for the next issue.

Has anyone read Remender's new book. Evolution or something?

[Red Tiger]

9 minutes ago, red snow said:

If they had a female batman they'd give her her own title

But we are on the same page regarding the limitations of the big characters. Like you say, it's a billion dollar franchise if you include films, etc  - these characters have to be looked after. You're also correct with the fans getting upset if Batman/superman killed someone or got married etc. They've done these things with Spider-man and they've never worked out. Unless you're Slott.

Morrison is sort of the Dan Slott of DC/Batman in that he got away with making some big changes. It helps that both of them brought increased sales along with the stories too.

I suspect Morrison may be capable of hypnotising editors. I suspect Didio/higher editorial are simply a massive fans of Morrison and enjoys reading his stuff as much as the regular fans.

It's a shame we have to wait 2 months for the next issue.

Has anyone read Remender's new book. Evolution or something?

The only Remender book im finding involving the word Evolution is the Counter-evolutionary storyline from Uncanny Avengers and I like to believe that book never existed.

[The King in Black]

14 minutes ago, red snow said:

If they had a female batman they'd give her her own title

But we are on the same page regarding the limitations of the big characters. Like you say, it's a billion dollar franchise if you include films, etc  - these characters have to be looked after. You're also correct with the fans getting upset if Batman/superman killed someone or got married etc. They've done these things with Spider-man and they've never worked out. Unless you're Slott.

Morrison is sort of the Dan Slott of DC/Batman in that he got away with making some big changes. It helps that both of them brought increased sales along with the stories too.

I suspect Morrison may be capable of hypnotising editors. I suspect Didio/higher editorial are simply a massive fans of Morrison and enjoys reading his stuff as much as the regular fans.

It's a shame we have to wait 2 months for the next issue.

Has anyone read Remender's new book. Evolution or something?

I honestly suspect the editors are so hip as to essential look sideways as Morrison flipped them a finger in Final Crisis

I mean 'Monitors' enforcing restrictions in the name of preservation ? Come on, might as well have named Mandrakk 'Warner Exec'

But I agree. As many missteps as they've made, those guys showed a lot of guts giving Morrison carte blanche. I've grown to appreciate his work with time and every re-read.

Anyone catching up with East of West ? I thought Secret Wars was Hickman's finest, but no. This is spectacular.

 

 

 

 

[CyanidePie]

I read volume 1 of East of West but it didn't really do much for me. I thought the end of that volume was really stupid and I never had much interest in continuing. The art was gorgeous though.

I think Hickman's best work are his runs on Fantastic Four and The Avengers. 

[red snow]

5 hours ago, Red Tiger said:

The only Remender book im finding involving the word Evolution is the Counter-evolutionary storyline from Uncanny Avengers and I like to believe that book never existed.

It's called devolution by Dynamite comics. I'm guessing it must have been something that's been on the boil for a long time as it seems strange not to be in the fold with his Image work.

57 minutes ago, CyanidePie said:

I read volume 1 of East of West but it didn't really do much for me. I thought the end of that volume was really stupid and I never had much interest in continuing. The art was gorgeous though.

I think Hickman's best work are his runs on Fantastic Four and The Avengers. 

I need to catch up. I got to the volume where the various factions all met up for a round-table. Honestly, it was an arc of them sitting in a meeting room. I really like it but I feel it works better in big chunks. The style of the world and the weird mixing of genres makes it feel like some weird mish-mash of manga, european and american comics. It would make a great TV show - I actually get a vibe of it from "into the badlands".

 

[Red Tiger]

It's called devolution by Dynamite comics. I'm guessing it must have been something that's been on the boil for a long time as it seems strange not to be in the fold with his Image work.

I need to catch up. I got to the volume where the various factions all met up for a round-table. Honestly, it was an arc of them sitting in a meeting room. I really like it but I feel it works better in big chunks. The style of the world and the weird mixing of genres makes it feel like some weird mish-mash of manga, european and american comics. It would make a great TV show - I actually get a vibe of it from "into the badlands".

 

Reading Devolution right now. Remender really, really hates the modern day addiction to technology, not just in Tokyo Ghost. Damn, he's taking brutal shots at living in your comfort zone.

[red snow]

18 hours ago, Red Tiger said:

Reading Devolution right now. Remender really, really hates the modern day addiction to technology, not just in Tokyo Ghost. Damn, he's taking brutal shots at living in your comfort zone.

I'd be curious to see how much of a technophobe he is. From his letters it seems more that he fears the slippery slope he sees himself/us in.

I get the feeling BKV is a bit like this too as he only reads post and stamp letters not emails. I don't think he hates tech (or it wouldn't have the online comics) but he seems to fear how it can take up your life. Thinking about it Remender probably doesn't like social media so much after the whole "I'm not a mutant" speech.

[Red Tiger]

11 minutes ago, red snow said:

I'd be curious to see how much of a technophobe he is. From his letters it seems more that he fears the slippery slope he sees himself/us in.

I get the feeling BKV is a bit like this too as he only reads post and stamp letters not emails. I don't think he hates tech (or it wouldn't have the online comics) but he seems to fear how it can take up your life. Thinking about it Remender probably doesn't like social media so much after the whole "I'm not a mutant" speech.

One of the stupidest goddamn panels I have ever read. Why the editors at Marvel didnt smack him upside the head for that shit I will  never know. It's right up there with "What are you retarded? Im the goddamn Batman".

[Winterfell is Burning]

3 hours ago, Red Tiger said:

One of the stupidest goddamn panels I have ever read. Why the editors at Marvel didnt smack him upside the head for that shit I will  never know. It's right up there with "What are you retarded? Im the goddamn Batman".

Editors at big 2 in general are not in the business of actually reading the comics anymore it seems.