Victarion Chainbreaker

Arya's Big Hit

143 posts in this topic

3 hours ago, YouKnowNothingJonSnow said:

The Freys aren't on the list since she didn't know their names.

Probably a superfluous comment: The above sentence reminds me, that the method/criteria of choosing targets to be killed, are inversed if Arya's and the Faceless Men are compared. 

Arya has accustomed to this rule:

1. The person has been identified as "bad" by herself (in general by witnessing the target's evil actions).

2. Minor priority: the name (so she can recite it in her death-list-prayer, in case the target still lives)

Faceless Men rule:

1. The target's name must be known.

2. The Person itself must be unknown to the assasin (the looks, no previous personal contact or relation).

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Another thought - more from a general perspective.

There as been a (now closed) big thread on whether Arya's killing of "Raff the Sweetling" in the "Mercy-chapter" was ordered by the Faceless Men or not.

If we follow those who say that it was on the order of the Faceless Men, we must conclude that Arya in that case was well aware of the political consequences. That would have been her very first assassination in the frame of a plot.

Let us take a step back. The story is huge, even if we only consider the political turmoils in Westeros (with activities going on also in Mereen/Pentos). Even bigger if we take into account the threat that is posed by the invasion of "The Others".

Some characters have an overview on Westeros' "Game of Thrones" (e.g. Cersei, Littlefinger, Stannis, Sansa limited).

Some see the wider picture (Mereen/Pentos + Westeros), e.g. Illyrio Mopatis, Varys, Tyrion, the Martells.

Maybe there are some who see the whole picture (e.g. Quaithe, Melisandre, Faceless Men).

I know, I know, we can discuss if Stannis sees Westeros and "The Others" etc., but allow me to simplify.

Most reader's assume with good reason that the surviving Starks (Sansa, Arya, Bran, Jon Snow) are main characters.

But none of them is playing in the Big Game at the moment, none of them has an overall view of things. Least of all Arya.

So, either GRRM goes through the final two books by leading the "World of Ice and Fire" into the future, with the main characters influencing things accidentally (a bit according to the butterfly theory).

Or he educates the main characters to act on a level alike the great scheming characters (Varys, Littlefinger, Doran Martell: small and well considered actions with big and calculated consequences.

Arya would (if she followed her death list) have a greater influence by killing Cersei, but just because Cersei happens to be on her list.

After that, her only useful function would be to reunite with e.g. Jon and/or reveal the true identity of Jeyne Poole.

I do not believe that GRRM prepared Arya over 5 books only for that.

 

But with an understanding of the Big Game that is going on (unravelled to her e.g. by the Faceless Men or Bran), she could have a major influence by selecting targets by new criteria:

People who have not done her harm directly but who's death would have a huge impact.

For example Littlefinger, Dany, Varys, the Night's King, Melisandre, Qyburn, Stannis, Euron, Moqarro, Victarion, Tyrion or even less important ones but who's death would create a huge chaos, a bit the Littlefinger-method.

Edited by Greywater-Watch

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4 hours ago, Greywater-Watch said:

Another thought - more from a general perspective.

There as been a (now closed) big thread on whether Arya's killing of "Raff the Sweetling" in the "Mercy-chapter" was ordered by the Faceless Men or not.

If we follow those who say that it was on the order of the Faceless Men, we must conclude that Arya in that case was well aware of the political consequences. That would have been her very first assassination in the frame of a plot.

Let us take a step back. The story is huge, even if we only consider the political turmoils in Westeros (with activities going on also in Mereen/Pentos). Even bigger if we take into account the threat that is posed by the invasion of "The Others".

Some characters have an overview on Westeros' "Game of Thrones" (e.g. Cersei, Littlefinger, Stannis, Sansa limited).

Some see the wider picture (Mereen/Pentos + Westeros), e.g. Illyrio Mopatis, Varys, Tyrion, the Martells.

Maybe there are some who see the whole picture (e.g. Quaithe, Melisandre, Faceless Men).

I know, I know, we can discuss if Stannis sees Westeros and "The Others" etc., but allow me to simplify.

Most reader's assume with good reason that the surviving Starks (Sansa, Arya, Bran, Jon Snow) are main characters.

But none of them is playing in the Big Game at the moment, none of them has an overall view of things. Least of all Arya.

So, either GRRM goes through the final two books by leading the "World of Ice and Fire" into the future, with the main characters influencing things accidentally (a bit according to the butterfly theory).

Or he educates the main characters to act on a level alike the great scheming characters (Varys, Littlefinger, Doran Martell: small and well considered actions with big and calculated consequences.

Arya would (if she followed her death list) have a greater influence by killing Cersei, but just because Cersei happens to be on her list.

After that, her only useful function would be to reunite with e.g. Jon and/or reveal the true identity of Jeyne Poole.

I do not believe that GRRM prepared Arya over 5 books only for that.

 

But with an understanding of the Big Game that is going on (unravelled to her e.g. by the Faceless Men or Bran), she could have a major influence by selecting targets by new criteria:

People who have not done her harm directly but who's death would have a huge impact.

For example Littlefinger, Dany, Varys, the Night's King, Melisandre, Qyburn, Stannis, Euron, Moqarro, Victarion, Tyrion or even less important ones but who's death would create a huge chaos, a bit the Littlefinger-method.

Unless Arya and the FM are connected for a reason that links Arya to the Big Picture you described. If we labour under the assumption Jaqen didn't accidentally get arrested, thrown in the Black Cell just because, allowed himself to be caged like animal with 2 other monsters, and travel to the Wall for what reason? That Arya crossing paths with a FM - It wasn't a coincidence. Arya serves a purpose beyond just failing at being a FM and returning home to reunite with her family. What was the point? There is a HUGE chunk missing of her future, a blackspot GRRM has purposely left there until the next phase of the story. 

An aria is "long, unaccompanied song for a solo voice”. Whatever role Arya plays, it will have a huge impact on the overall story -song-  and GRRM chose to give her the Lone Wolf speech of all the Stark kids. We already know her super pack is coming back and so is Nymeria. What the FM's true agenda is and who their allegiances will be with at the end...still a mystery.

And what Arya's role will be post-War of Dawn will also be critical. 

Edited by DutchArya

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4 hours ago, Greywater-Watch said:

But none of them is playing in the Big Game at the moment, none of them has an overall view of things. Least of all Arya.

Arya knew of a slaver making it back home with women and children from Hardhome and that the slaver would spread the word about there being more "free slaves" to be gotten there. And she tells the Kindly Man this who has all the signs of being a Braavos Keyholder. Braavos may not have sent a fleet for Hardhome, but Jon finds negotiations with Tycho to use his ships for the Hardhome rescue going a bit too smooth. It's not confirmed, but Arya may have had an impact in that plotline, as Blind Beth.

Now with the Mercy chapter, Arya would not know the reasons why she is to cause a scandal that makes the KL envoy look bad either with a poisoned coin and placing a "stolen" key or with the sword. She is a pawn who executes the plan, without knowing the full scope of it, and the bigger plan is the IB and FM playing a financial and political game. It's for us, the reader, to figure out the full scope.

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36 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

Arya would not know the reasons why she is to cause a scandal that makes the KL envoy look bad either with a poisoned coin and placing a "stolen" key or with the sword. She is a pawn who executes the plan, without knowing the full scope of it

I agree that she is probably not aware of the full scope of the plan. But at least her thoughts in the last paragraph of the Mercy-Chapter "This would make trouble for the Sealord and the envoy with the chicken on his chest, she did not doubt." indicate that she is aware of a certain scope of her action (i.e. her action is part of a larger plot), which has never been the case before, in none of her precedent killings.
 

Edited by Greywater-Watch

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12 minutes ago, Greywater-Watch said:

I agree that she is probably not aware of the full scope of the plan. But at least her thoughts in the last paragraph of the Mercy-Chapter "This would make trouble for the Sealord and the envoy with the chicken on his chest, she did not doubt." indicate that she is aware of a certain scope of her action (i.e. her action is part of a larger plot), which has never been the case before, in none of her precedent killings.
 

Which imo was the "order" she was given: make trouble for the Sealord and the enovy. Almost like a game, just as "tell me 3 new things you've learned". We know with former-Jaquen killing Pate at Oldtown that killing someone is not always the goal, but can be the means of some bigger goal.

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35 minutes ago, Greywater-Watch said:

I agree that she is probably not aware of the full scope of the plan. But at least her thoughts in the last paragraph of the Mercy-Chapter "This would make trouble for the Sealord and the envoy with the chicken on his chest, she did not doubt." indicate that she is aware of a certain scope of her action (i.e. her action is part of a larger plot), which has never been the case before, in none of her precedent killings.
 

What about the Weasel Soup? She had quite a broad series of actions in mind which she would initiate, even if she did not anticipate the Bloody Mummers' defection.

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11 minutes ago, Horse of Kent said:

What about the Weasel Soup? She had quite a broad series of actions in mind which she would initiate, even if she did not anticipate the Bloody Mummers' defection.

Yes of course, and when Yoren saved her from the place in front of the Sept, during Ned Stark's beheading, she was also playing her part in a difficult plot by keeping her mouth shut and let herself shave the head....

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7 minutes ago, Greywater-Watch said:

Yes of course, and when Yoren saved her from the place in front of the Sept, during Ned Stark's beheading, she was also playing her part in a difficult plot by keeping her mouth shut and let herself shave the head....

That's not entirely the same. Yoren was the one who took initiative there. Arya was looking and badgering people to help the prisoners escape on her own accord, and forced Jaquen to do so. After that, she executed Jaquen's plan. But she was the one who ordered him to free the prisoners. The Bloody Mummers intended to fight with Amory's men without freeing the prisoners first. And while it's likely that the mummers would have won without the Weasel Soup, her actions and participation ensured her a cupbering position and that her friends didn't end up as a head on a spike.

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Not only did Arya take the initiative in the Weasel Soup plot, but her trick on Jaqen showed a great amount of cunning and lateral thinking in how to upgrade from the promise to kill one person for her, to the assistance in a seizure of the castle at the cost of multiple lives. Yes, Arya did not know what Jaqen would plan, or that he would have known Vargo Hoat was switching sides in this instance, but neither would she know who exactly wanted her to cause chaos for the Westerosi embassy, or why this would benefit the Iron Bank.

Edited by Horse of Kent

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On 10/7/2016 at 11:38 AM, sweetsunray said:

Arya will leave when she's ready for it. I think the FM kindof see her as someone who is not just trained to be an assassin but who has a special link to the Many Faced God, that she sort of knows who's time is up. The reason why they want to train her is so that she does not confuse "her personal desire" with "knowing who's time is up".

Raff is a gift. Mercy thinks the MFGod sent him to her. Also, before she even has seen him and arrived at the theater, she wakes and thinks this will be her last day and obviously prepares for a special job (rape+death): separate coins, a key and the sword hidden in pockets and sleeve. Then she goes to the theater and all that's in the script of the mummer's play is "the rape", but not "death". The coins, key (think keyholder) and sword (true steel, not theater make-believe sword) suggests she must frame someone somehow and cause a scandal. We know from aDwD that the Iron Bank is backing Stannis. They're dumping Cersei. But imo they'll go about it the sly way. If there's a scandal that erupts in Braavos that points to KL's envoy Lord Harry Swyft, then the news spreads both in Essos AND Westeros that the Lannisters lost their backing of the Iron Bank, publically for the scandal. Now guess who the sellsword companies will be flocking to? Certainly NOT the Lannisters, because there's no guarantee they'll get paid.

Mercy's job is to create the scandal, and she has several scenarios at her disposal. When she recognizes Raff though, she knows he's the ideal set-up for the scandal. Raff's colleague knows he was a Gregor man and sees him take a girl-child who hasn't even flowered yet to somewhere private. Raff doesn't return. Mercy does not show up at work the next day at the theater. Someone calls on her at her rented room. They see all that blood. In the public's eye who killed who here? The small, kind, always smiling pretty girl-child actress of 11 who chastices anybody reaching for her titties (that she doesn't have yet) OR the big Westerosi guard who talked of murdering an actor and bragged about the good raping times with Gregor? The public will think that Raff killed Mercy and dumped her in the canals and then fled. Big scandal. Public demanding to kick that Harry Swyft and their child-raping murderers out of the harbor back to King's Landing and the Iron Bank makes the official statement that "Sorry, we cannot lend you anything anymore, nor extend your loans."

Mercy dies, no one returns to HoBaW and gets a pat on her back for a job well done, and new training. ETA: And we'll know that was the plan as Harry Swyft returns to KL with the bad news, at some small council with Cersei as POV.

My biggest problem with this scenario is that there is a total lack of preparation and planning that I find entirely inconsistent with the operations of a professional organization such as the Faceless Men.  If this is the way they go about their business, it's a wonder they have any success at all, and the whole lot of them hasn't been arrested.  I also find it unbelievable that the FM would have an 11 year-old beginner take out a professional soldier and not even have some sort of backup plan.  Surprise and a lot of luck are the only reasons she succeeded at all.

I think that Raff will be assumed to have been lured away and assassinated.  The Sealord will be upset that a prominent visitor got murdered, and Swyft will assume it was aimed at him, which will cause trouble.  Ain't nobody going to care about Mercy, except as an accomplice to murder.  She is nobody, and the fact that she is literally nobody (no family or discernible past at all) will make them even more suspicious of her.

5 hours ago, DutchArya said:

Unless Arya and the FM are connected for a reason that links Arya to the Big Picture you described. If we labour under the assumption Jaqen didn't accidentally get arrested, thrown in the Black Cell just because, allowed himself to be caged like animal with 2 other monsters, and travel to the Wall for what reason? That Arya crossing paths with a FM - It wasn't a coincidence.

I find it much easier to believe in a series of coincidences than Arya being part of a master plan.  Or at least one that exists outside of GRRM's head.  The actual amount of foreknowledge required would be simply ridiculous.  I doubt Jaqen allowed himself to get locked up.  He was probably doing something or being someplace he shouldn't have been, and was either unlucky, made a mistake, or was betrayed.  If you're going to travel with the NW, there are lots of easier ways than chained to a wagon.  Simply pretend to be one of the riff-raff Yoren picked up in KL.

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1 minute ago, Nevets said:

I find it much easier to believe in a series of coincidences than Arya being part of a master plan.  Or at least one that exists outside of GRRM's head.  The actual amount of foreknowledge required would be simply ridiculous.  I doubt Jaqen allowed himself to get locked up.  He was probably doing something or being someplace he shouldn't have been, and was either unlucky, made a mistake, or was betrayed.  If you're going to travel with the NW, there are lots of easier ways than chained to a wagon.  Simply pretend to be one of the riff-raff Yoren picked up in KL.

The foreknowledge required from GRRM to pull this off is a problem? The writer who has planted more complex plot scenarios than the FM simply having their own agenda (that he obviously knows about) and then have his main players in this scenario work their way through to an eventual climax... is too much? We haven't reached that climax point yet, but perhaps the limitations you perceive are not something GRRM would find a challenge? So falling back to mere coincidences, when it literally makes no sense when you look at the characters actions,  doesn't seem right. You have to just assume a bunch of stuff, randomly ignore things - because it's too complex. It has to just mean nothing. That's not GRRM's style at all.

So if he didn't allow himself to get locked up... why didn't he escape? He is a very skilled FM, I don't agree that he would let himself be locked up both in the black cells and in the caged wagon with Rorge and Bitter (who seemed to defer to him) without a good reason.

Why would he travel with the NW recruits in the first place if his goal is to get to the Wall or Oldtown or wherever? These actions make no sense if you simply see them as random coincidences. 

Jaqen's actions seem deliberate and the focus on Arya comes with an agenda. 

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3 minutes ago, Nevets said:

My biggest problem with this scenario is that there is a total lack of preparation and planning that I find entirely inconsistent with the operations of a professional organization such as the Faceless Men.  If this is the way they go about their business, it's a wonder they have any success at all, and the whole lot of them hasn't been arrested.  I also find it unbelievable that the FM would have an 11 year-old beginner take out a professional soldier and not even have some sort of backup plan.  Surprise and a lot of luck are the only reasons she succeeded at all.

I think that Raff will be assumed to have been lured away and assassinated.  The Sealord will be upset that a prominent visitor got murdered, and Swyft will assume it was aimed at him, which will cause trouble.  Ain't nobody going to care about Mercy, except as an accomplice to murder.  She is nobody, and the fact that she is literally nobody (no family or discernible past at all) will make them even more suspicious of her.

Lack of preparation? A play having been written, the sealord and envoy visiting the theater during the premiere night, when the sealord never visited that theater before ever in his life. What we do not have is Arya discussing it all beforehand with the kindly man the way she did with the insurance man. We've already seen them go through that, no need for George to write that out. Heck it's more cliffhanger this way (and was originally intended to be part of aDwD), so that people fear Arya's in trouble now.  Plus other pupils are being used as spies to give info on the envoy, if the IB didn't pass it on already. But obviously some prep went into it, since she has several coins on her that she explicitly does not put together with the other money coins. The sealord and envoy certainly weren't there by chance. If an 11 year old can take out the insurance man with a guard, then why could she not be trusted to create an issue with the envoy?

If a girl of 11 who is known by sailors and mummer's troup to be helpful, kind and smiling and happy goes missing, as well as a male guard nearing his 30s who killed and murdered and raped people and enjoyed it, and they find a pool of blood in the girl's room they would suspect Raff, not the girl. The evnoy and the guard are the nobodies to people of Braavos. They're foreigners. Mercy is one of theirs. The envoy will be delayed. Guards will be taken for questioning. And they'll use whatever he says to point Raff out as the murderer. And whatever doesn't fit in the scenario will be waved off as misunderstanding, since Mercy didn't speak and understand "common tongue" much. To suggest that an 11 year old girl of a mummer's troupe would be suspected of having murdered a guy like Raff is totally laughable.

This will be the investigation's conclusion: Mercy went off with him for a little while, appeared on her second act for her "rape", returned home. Raff waited and followed her, there was a struggle, he murdered her, dumped her body and left to make his fortune in Essos.

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I regret to see that the discussion goes astray from my post.

As I said before - referring to the post: 

 Arya in TWOW Arya is in BIG trouble... (Mercy chapter spoilers)

Mdoggy
By Mdoggy in The Winds of Winter, June 2, 2014

There are good arguments for the point of view that the killing of Raff the Sweetling was part of a plot planned by the FM.

As well as there are arguments for the theory that Arya did the killing out of her own motivation, on the spot, without previous planning and without any involvement of the FM.

sweetsunray explained nicely and coherently that it is thinkable that technically the murder of Raff the Sweetling is a plot.

My point was not to re-open this discussion, but to elaborate, if this would represent a new level of Arya's training - not a technical one but how a plot works (small incident compared to huge political consequences) and thus how to select a target wisely.

1. sweetsunray said: "Arya would not know the reasons why she is to cause a scandal that makes the KL envoy look bad either with a poisoned coin and placing a "stolen" key or with the sword. She is a pawn who executes the plan, without knowing the full scope of it, and the bigger plan is the IB and FM playing a financial and political game. It's for us, the reader, to figure out the full scope."

=> it is no new step in the evolution of Arya.

2. I did not really get the Point in DutchArya's contribution.

3. Horse of Kent tries to prove with the Weasel-soup-event that Arya already knew about how to make a plot.

4. Nevets resumes the discussion of the plot " Arya in TWOW Arya is in BIG trouble... (Mercy chapter Spoilers)"

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I have to admit, after reading Mercy again, more carefully, I do think Arya's mission is to sow some division regarding the Sealord and the envoy. The last line of the second to last paragraph and the first line of the last seem despositive to me:

"This would make trouble for the Sealord and the envoy with the chicken on his chest, she did not doubt. She would think about that later, though."

Now, one could interpret this as a flighty decision to kill Raff and the realization that it would cause issues politically. However, given that after the killing Mercy thinks her time as a mummer is over (mission accomplished) speaks strongly to the contrary to me. As is the comment that the gods sent her a gift. She can accomplish Mercy's mission AND cross a name off Arya's list at the same time.

Now, if the FM discover she killed Raff as revenge for Arya, THEN she could certainly have an issue. Or even if she took a life unsanctioned. However, as long as she was allowed to kill in order to accomplish the goal, she should escape punishment from the FM. I tend to think the FM won't punish Mercy for the killing, as long as it is Mercy, not Arya. There is no thought of this type of danger from Arya/Mercy in the chapter.

 

 

 

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"Once upon a time in Winter" ft. Marillion. I definitely expect it to overtake "Rains of Castamere" at #1 on Westerosi charts.

Edited by Takiedevushkikakzvezdy

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Just a little find (while searching for something else) that made me think of this thread and wanted to share in case not everyone has seen it.

An interview with George at Con Quest in May, 2015 and someone asks just one or two questions about Arya/Mercy.

Question: Person read the Mercy chapter, wonders if we will see any more of Mercy in The Winds of Winter.
Answer: “Well, if you read that chapter, you know that she kind of blew the Mercy identity by killing a guy.”
Person: “I didn’t know if she could come back at all after that.”
GRRM: “Sometimes the Faceless Men have to abandon an identity because it’s become too associated with some public atrocity or something, so I don’t think she’ll be rejoining the acting troupe any time soon, but there are other identities…there are a whole lot of faces hanging in that hall.”

http://historyofwesteros.tumblr.com/post/120153203157/ariannenymeria-highlights-from-the-qa-with

http://grrm.livejournal.com/427974.html

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10 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

Just a little find (while searching for something else) that made me think of this thread and wanted to share in case not everyone has seen it.

An interview with George at Con Quest in May, 2015 and someone asks just one or two questions about Arya/Mercy.

Question: Person read the Mercy chapter, wonders if we will see any more of Mercy in The Winds of Winter.
Answer: “Well, if you read that chapter, you know that she kind of blew the Mercy identity by killing a guy.”
Person: “I didn’t know if she could come back at all after that.”
GRRM: “Sometimes the Faceless Men have to abandon an identity because it’s become too associated with some public atrocity or something, so I don’t think she’ll be rejoining the acting troupe any time soon, but there are other identities…there are a whole lot of faces hanging in that hall.”

http://historyofwesteros.tumblr.com/post/120153203157/ariannenymeria-highlights-from-the-qa-with

http://grrm.livejournal.com/427974.html

Thank you very much for this piece of Information. To me it seems to solidify the view that killing Raff the Sweetling will either be tolerated or was even in line with the plans of the Faceless Men. So no worry for Arya having to leave the Faceless Men as a punishment.

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Don't think she'll kill Cersei - I believe in the prophecy, and that Jamie will kill Cersei.

Can't really see why the Iron Bank need an excuse to cut ties with the Iron Throne. Cersei has already declared the IT won't pay their debts, and what more would the IB need? Harys Swyft is sent there to negotiate by Kevan Lannister, so I suppose someone might want to sabotage it  so the negotiations don't succeed (coughVaryscough) ... but the disappearance of a guard and a mummers girl? Sounds like something that might happen every day in the dark alleys. 

As for Arya's Big Kill ... I'm betting on Melisandre.

Melisandre is a priestess of R'hollor, god of fire and life. Arya is a "priestess" of the God of Many Faces, god of Death (and she herself is associated with ice and the North). Melisandre is very old, and uses magic and charms and illusions to disguise herself. Arya is very young, and uses magic and charms and illusions to disguise herself. Melisandre hides things, Arya is learning how to see through lies and deception. Melisandre gives birth to shadow babies that kill people, Arya is an assassin. As for her reasons to kill Melisandre ...

Remember the leeches? Melisandre used king's blood to fill the leeches, then Stannis threw them into the fire and said each name he wanted to die. One of the names was Robb Stark. Sure, it was Stannis who said who would die, but it was Melisandre's magic, and if Stannis dies before Arya can get to him she might direct the blame to Mel. And depending on the powers she learn in tHoBaW, and her warging, Arya might  find out these things.  

(Also: Some people think the Faceless Men will want to murder Daenerys and her dragons, to prevent a new Valyrian Empire. I'm sure the Faceless Men had something to do about the Doom of Valyria, but if their intent was to wipe out all dragons, why didn't they move against the Targaryen dynasty while they were sitting on the Iron Throne? Lots of dragons before the Dragon Dance. And Daenerys is destroying the slave trade, not bringing it to new levels. The Bravoosi hates slavery.)

(Arya is definitely becoming the new Master of Whispers, for the kingdom of the North or the Seven Kingdoms as a whole. What happens to trainees among the Faceless Men who fail their training? Are they killed, or do they simply become a web of spies and agents that help the assassins along? Because if Arya fails her training, she could definitely become part of the spy web.)

 

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On ‎07‎.‎11‎.‎2016 at 0:00 AM, SylvanLore said:

Don't think she'll kill Cersei - I believe in the prophecy, and that Jamie will kill Cersei.

I am still not ready to discard the possibility that "Valonqar" could also mean "younger sister"; a translation mistake concerning gender as it happened with "Dragon" in the prophecy (-> Maester Aemon).

On ‎07‎.‎11‎.‎2016 at 0:00 AM, SylvanLore said:

As for Arya's Big Kill ... I'm betting on Melisandre.

 

On ‎07‎.‎11‎.‎2016 at 0:00 AM, SylvanLore said:

Melisandre is very old,

For your two remarks above: Is it possible that you have the TV-Show in your (back)mind, where Arya in fact meets Melisandre and Melisandre is shown as an old woman, disguising her age by glamour? As I recall, none of that happens in the books.

On ‎07‎.‎11‎.‎2016 at 0:00 AM, SylvanLore said:

Arya is definitely becoming the new Master of Whispers,

I would never have thought in that direction... - and no, I just cannot see Arya in that role. But, you may be right anyway.

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