The Women of House Crane

[House Crane]

Will there be any truth to the tales of the women of House Crane having the ability to skinchange? What effect would this have on the plot?  I realize this is kind of an oddball question, but I have a weird obsession with the Cranes. Please share your thoughts 

[Blind Beth the Cat Lady]

Probably. I think skinchanging, or at least the genetic potential to be a skinchanger, is probably quite widespread. Cranes and probably most FM houses with an animal sigil likely carry the ability and have ancestors who manifested skinchanging.

It's interesting that with House Crane the ability is attributed specifically to women. With the Starks, the skinchanging connection seems to be historically correlated with men--with only the Lords of Winterfell depicted in the crypts with direwolves. That the Crane trait is attributed to women may be a literary nod to the story of the Crane Wife.

[StarkofWinterfell]

1 hour ago, Blind Beth the Cat Lady said:

Probably. I think skinchanging, or at least the genetic potential to be a skinchanger, is probably quite widespread. Cranes and probably most FM houses with an animal sigil likely carry the ability and have ancestors who manifested skinchanging.

It's interesting that with House Crane the ability is attributed specifically to women. With the Starks, the skinchanging connection seems to be historically correlated with men--with only the Lords of Winterfell depicted in the crypts with direwolves. That the Crane trait is attributed to women may be a literary nod to the story of the Crane Wife.

As far as I know, there are only Lords of Winterfell in the crypts and no Ladies. Assuming what you say is true that the skinchanging gene for Starks only applies to men, then I wonder about Arya?

[Blind Beth the Cat Lady]

6 hours ago, StarkofWinterfell said:

As far as I know, there are only Lords of Winterfell in the crypts and no Ladies. Assuming what you say is true that the skinchanging gene for Starks only applies to men, then I wonder about Arya?

Oh, I don't think only Stark men have been skinchangers. GRRMhas said all the stark kids are--Arya obviously is--and I think we have implications that Lyanna had the potential. Just saying that the history/lore of the house only pertains to the lords and Kings of Winter. 

[FreyPiesForSkagos]

8 hours ago, Blind Beth the Cat Lady said:

Probably. I think skinchanging, or at least the genetic potential to be a skinchanger, is probably quite widespread. Cranes and probably most FM houses with an animal sigil likely carry the ability and have ancestors who manifested skinchanging.

It's interesting that with House Crane the ability is attributed specifically to women. With the Starks, the skinchanging connection seems to be historically correlated with men--with only the Lords of Winterfell depicted in the crypts with direwolves. That the Crane trait is attributed to women may be a literary nod to the story of the Crane Wife.

What about the "she-wolves of Winterfell"?

[James Steller]

There's also the She-Bears of Mormont. 

[Blind Beth the Cat Lady]

36 minutes ago, FreyPiesForSkagos said:

What about the "she-wolves of Winterfell"?

Well, that's a novella title, not an in-world appellation as far as we know. If the novella reveals that Stark women of that time were also associated with wolf skinchanging in-world I will take it all back. :-)

Again, not saying that Stark skinchanging is *actually* limited to men (it's clearly not), just that the family lore seems to only emphasize the warginess of the King of Winter/Lord of Winterfell.

 

Didn't really mean to derail the thread like this--I was just saying that it's interesting that House Crane skinchanging is allegedly limited to women as that doesn't seem to be the case with other houses that are associated with the trait, such as Starks or Farwynds.

It's double interesting because I know several people on the forums support the idea that skinchanging is a trait passed down through the female line. I think Bran Vras originally put the idea forward, and @Evolett has done essays about male and female genetic inheritance.

[Jon Fossoway]

I think it was only a curious note Martin added to the skinchanging ability spread through the First Men. Not that we'll see any Crane women doing it.

I often get surprised on how fans get fixed on small and tangential details, thinking it will actually mean something relevant in the main plot. I think Martin likes to add up these nice ornamental details in his fiction. That is all.

[FreyPiesForSkagos]

21 minutes ago, Blind Beth the Cat Lady said:

Well, that's a novella title, not an in-world appellation as far as we know. If the novella reveals that Stark women of that time were also associated with wolf skinchanging in-world I will take it all back. :-)

Again, not saying that Stark skinchanging is *actually* limited to men (it's clearly not), just that the family lore seems to only emphasize the warginess of the King of Winter/Lord of Winterfell.

 

Didn't really mean to derail the thread like this--I was just saying that it's interesting that House Crane skinchanging is allegedly limited to women as that doesn't seem to be the case with other houses that are associated with the trait, such as Starks or Farwynds.

It's double interesting because I know several people on the forums support the idea that skinchanging is a trait passed down through the female line. I think Bran Vras originally put the idea forward, and @Evolett has done essays about male and female genetic inheritance.

I mean, what do you think the title might signify, if not exactly that?

[Blind Beth the Cat Lady]

2 hours ago, FreyPiesForSkagos said:

I mean, what do you think the title might signify, if not exactly that?

Same as when it's applied to Catelyn. Based on the Stark family tree and the time frame of Dunk and Egg, some fans have parsed out that the novella will mostly revolve around women who have married into the Stark family and are vying for political power. 

And D&E stories are more focused on politics than magic. There may be implications of skin changing as there are implications of BR's green seeing abilities, but they'll be subtle and peripheral.

[FreyPiesForSkagos]

11 minutes ago, Blind Beth the Cat Lady said:

Same as when it's applied to Catelyn. Based on the Stark family tree and the time frame of Dunk and Egg, some fans have parsed out that the novella will mostly revolve around women who have married into the Stark family and are vying for political power. 

And D&E stories are more focused on politics than magic. There may be implications of skin changing as there are implications of BR's green seeing abilities, but they'll be subtle and peripheral.

Well, we did get Bloodraven glamoring as Maynard Plumm.

[Blind Beth the Cat Lady]

34 minutes ago, FreyPiesForSkagos said:

Well, we did get Bloodraven glamoring as Maynard Plumm.

Yes--subtly and peripherally. :-)

[FreyPiesForSkagos]

Just now, Blind Beth the Cat Lady said:

Yes--subtly and peripherally. :-)

That might just be why the she-wolves were postponed, I think. There would have been more magic and George had second thoughts.

[Lost Melnibonean]

I don't know whether we're going to see an army of lady crane skinchangers, but I do think House Crane has a role to play as we approach the end of the saga. 

In The World of Ice and Fire there is a box where twelve children of Garth Greenhand are celebrated, and anytime I see green, I think team Aegon. So, I’m guessing that the eleven houses founded by these legendary figures are the Golden Company’s friends in the Reach. (I am assuming that Aegon is the Blackfyre, and that he and Daenerys will fight eventually in the Second Dance of the Dragons.)

“The dragon is time. It has no beginning and no ending, so all things come round again.”

One of those houses is House Crane. We know very little of House Crane. One of its knights serves as the master-at-arms at Highgarden, and one of its daughters is a lady-in-waiting to Margaery. However, another knight and another daughter of House Crane are wed to Florents.

Perhaps more importantly, Ser Parmen Crane was a member of Renly’s Rainbow Guard. He stood outside Renly’s tent along with Ser Emmon Cuy when Catelyn visited with Renly during the war council the night Renly was assassinated. However, Parmen was no longer present when Renly was assassinated. Immediaely after the war council, Catelyn was beseeching Renly as Renly was attended by Brienne. Apparently, Ser Robar Royce had assumed Parmen’s post, since Robar rushed in with Emmon. Loras killed Robar and Emmon, but Parmen somehow survived, even though Loras blamed him as well. Loras returned to Bitterbridge, and Parmen joined Stannis. Stannis sent Parmen and Ser Erren Florent to treat with Mace Tyrell, but Tyrell had them both imprisoned at Highgarden. 

We don't  know anything else about House Crane, do we? 

[Nittanian]

12 hours ago, StarkofWinterfell said:

As far as I know, there are only Lords of Winterfell in the crypts and no Ladies.

All Starks can be buried in the crypts, but generally only lords/kings receive statues.

Quote

Suddenly Arya remembered the crypts at Winterfell. They were a lot scarier than this place, she told herself. She'd been just a little girl the first time she saw them. Her brother Robb had taken them down, her and Sansa and baby Bran, who'd been no bigger than Rickon was now. They'd only had one candle between them, and Bran's eyes had gotten as big as saucers as he stared at the stone faces of the Kings of Winter, with their wolves at their feet and their iron swords across their laps.

 

Robb took them all the way down to the end, past Grandfather and Brandon and Lyanna, to show them their own tombs. Sansa kept looking at the stubby little candle, anxious that it might go out. Old Nan had told her there were spiders down here, and rats as big as dogs. Robb smiled when she said that. "There are worse things than spiders and rats," he whispered. "This is where the dead walk." That was when they heard the sound, low and deep and shivery. Baby Bran had clutched at Arya's hand. (AGOT Arya IV)

 

4 hours ago, Blind Beth the Cat Lady said:

Well, that's a novella title, not an in-world appellation as far as we know.

To clarify, it's also not expected to be the actual title.

Quote

The unfinished novella was indeed set in Winterfell, and involved a group of formidable Stark wives, widows, mothers, and grandmothers that I dubbed 'the She-Wolves,' but "The She-Wolves of Winterfell" was never meant to be more than a working title.  The final title, when I finish the story, will be something different.  (Not A Blog)

 

[Blind Beth the Cat Lady]

30 minutes ago, Nittanian said:

All Starks can be buried in the crypts, but generally only lords/kings receive statues.

 

To clarify, it's also not expected to be the actual title.

 

Ah, thanks!

[StarkofWinterfell]

46 minutes ago, Nittanian said:

All Starks can be buried in the crypts, but generally only lords/kings receive statues.

 

To clarify, it's also not expected to be the actual title.

 

I believe Ned broke from tradition by burying Lyanna down there, Brandon was briefly Lord so thus has a tomb. Lyanna is the only woman buried in the crypts.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

From the moment I read about them I was fascinated. I find it quite interesting the fact that they were from the Reach and that they skinchanged into birds which according to Haggon, was tempting yet dangerous. However because of the fact that Reach is inhabited mostly by Andals I believe that they will not have a serious impact at the story.

[Nittanian]

22 minutes ago, StarkofWinterfell said:

I believe Ned broke from tradition by burying Lyanna down there, Brandon was briefly Lord so thus has a tomb. Lyanna is the only woman buried in the crypts.

Has GRRM confirmed who died first, Brandon or Rickard? In AGOT Bran VII, Bran tells Osha,

Quote

And there's my grandfather, Lord Rickard, who was beheaded by Mad King Aerys. His daughter Lyanna and his son Brandon are in the tombs beside him. Not me, another Brandon, my father's brother. They're not supposed to have statues, that's only for the lords and the kings, but my father loved them so much he had them done.

Bran's statement indicates to me that Brandon is not considered to have been a lord, and that Brandon and Lyanna received statues as exceptions to not being lords/kings. There is also a statue of Artos Stark, but he was not a lord either.

[StarkofWinterfell]

2 minutes ago, Nittanian said:

Has GRRM confirmed who died first, Brandon or Rickard? In AGOT Bran VII, Bran tells Osha,

Bran's statement indicates to me that Brandon is not considered to have been a lord, and that Brandon and Lyanna received statues as exceptions to not being lords/kings. There is also a statue of Artos Stark, but he was not a lord either.

It's hard to say who died first. Whether Brandon strangled himself first or Rickard burned to death. But if it was the latter, Brandon would've been lord briefly for a few seconds until his death. Technicalities and all that!