Werthead

Atlas of Ice and Fire

170 posts in this topic

It's a bit puzzling. We'd previously been told that the First Men arrived via Dorne and spread up through the Reach. Then WoIaF tells us that the Sea of Dorne was actually an inland sea/lake, so that suggests that it was possible to pass around the northern edge of the lake into the Stormlands instead.

There are two relatively easy explanations. The first is that the northern route was difficult to traverse to outright impassable and large-scale migration was faster going south. The second is that Dorne simply wasn't a desert at that time and was, along with much of the rest of the world (given the Silver Sea and Shrinking Sea were both intact at that time), wet and quite habitable, becoming dryer and desertified only in later times.

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Aren't we outright told in tWoIaF that the First Men only passed through Dorne without really settling it since it was just a bunch of desert? And according to the Wiki (I don't know how accurate it is) it's believed the Lake of Dorne was separated from the Narrow Sea by a strip of salt marshes, which could've just been difficult for them to make their way through.

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I suspect the salt marshes would have been effectively impassable. The existence of the marshes also backs up the maester theory that the sea levels were rising anyway (maybe as a result of polar melting beyond the Shivering Sea), since this could be a coastal forest that has been flooded, much like the Neck later on. That suggests the Arm was never shattered at all: like the England-France land bridge, it was simply low-lying and is still down there under the water, with the Stepstones as its tallest surviving hills.

Anyway, Map 2: The Arrival of the First Men and shenanigans resulting thereof.

Edited by Werthead

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Ooo interesting idea!

I'd never really thought about the sea rising or falling and how it's gonna affect the shore regions in the past. I suppose that could mean that the stories of the CotF smashing the arm could be allegorical and actually be more of a description of a natural ocurance. 

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I wonder if it was both: the Children did use magic, but only to accelerate a naturally-occurring phenomenon. It still looked impressive, but it was the Children using a process already underway, not creating one from scratch. That seems more in common with their skills and abilities.

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Or could they have used "magic" but on a smaller scale to cause a bigger disaster?

I mean it's been suggested the North Sea wasn't really a sea until the land bridge between Europe and the British Isles collapsed within the last 100K years or so, flooding what would have been Doggerland. Even though it's just a theory with little evidence you can see the parallel to what GRRM has written into the story.
That would have been something natural but if such an event was going to happen near the Arm of Dorne, could they have say,accelerated it's occurrence?

I've always though about something interesting about it. The story is full of groups of people messing with "nature" and getting caught short, the Valyrians get hit by the Doom (possibly a mega-volcanic eruption), the whole deal with the Long Night seems to have possible links to some acts in the Great Empire of the Dawn, Assai is a poisoned wasteland pretty much. I'd not find it too much of a stretch to think that the destruction of the Arm of Dorne was the CotF messing with power they couldn't control and causing a natural disaster. Just a crazy idea really!

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Historical Map 4: Ancient Essos

This was pretty tough because the span of time is both massive and undetailed. Sarnor allegedly predates everything else, but doesn't do anything for that whole time? But is then only said to have been a major power for 2,000 years? No idea how that works.

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4 minutes ago, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

Only took a quick look as of yet, but it looks good! :)

One small thing, though. The Doom is listed as occurring in 102 BC, but TWOIAF states 114 BC.

TWoIaF states that the Targaryens moved to Dragonstone in 114 BC, twelve years before the Doom.

Although looking at it now it can be read either way. We may need to call on @Ran to clarify.

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Historical Map 7: The Flight of the Rhoynar

I'm pretty pleased with how this one turned out. When we have much harder dates and more detailed information, making the maps becomes a lot more satisfying.

Also, whilst I've known for seventeen years in general terms that Nymeria was a badass, preparing this entry really brought it home. Here's your HBO prequel series right here.

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6 hours ago, Werthead said:

Historical Map 7: The Flight of the Rhoynar

I'm pretty pleased with how this one turned out. When we have much harder dates and more detailed information, making the maps becomes a lot more satisfying.

Also, whilst I've known for seventeen years in general terms that Nymeria was a badass, preparing this entry really brought it home. Here's your HBO prequel series right here.

To the bolded they might take you up on that and ruin it too so don't put that out in the universe. 

But this is great. You do such an amazing job, thank you. 

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14 hours ago, Werthead said:

 

14 hours ago, Werthead said:

Many thanks for the all the work you've done.

I suppose the Doom of Valyria could be rationalised by saying that old tales exaggerated the scale of the eruptions (i.e. they were sufficient to destroy the main Valyrian cities, and spark off Tsunamis, but not sufficient to wipe out life on the Planet).  Or perhaps the tales described as taking place in one day what actually took place over the course of some time).

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How come Crackclaw Point is coloured in as if it were part of the Riverlands? As far as I know the peninsula was never actually permanently a part of any Kingdom up until the Conquest.

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3 hours ago, TheSovereignGrave said:

How come Crackclaw Point is coloured in as if it were part of the Riverlands? As far as I know the peninsula was never actually permanently a part of any Kingdom up until the Conquest.

That's a bit of a grey area. They say that, but then it's also said that when Aegon landed all of Westeros was united as the Seven Kingdoms, with Crackclaw presumbly being part of the Isles/Riverlands. Harrenhal isn't that far from there.

Reconciling it with the region's historic independence, I suspect if the Riverlands did control Crackclaw, it was only very nominally (as with the North and Skagos). Most of the Crownlands probably was in a similar position, acting more as a buffer between the Stormlands and Riverlands.

Edited by Werthead

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