Is Drogon really Meant for Daenerys ?

[Anythingatall]

1 hour ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

I know, huh? That would make this tale more like a traditional fantasy epic. But it is rank and utter madness. 

ASOIAF is the only fantasy epic I have ever read (pretty sure Harry Potter doesn't count).  

 

[chrisdaw]

Quote

 

“ . . . want to wake the dragon . . . ”

Ghosts lined the hallway, dressed in the faded raiment of kings. In their hands were swords of pale fire. They had hair of silver and hair of gold and hair of platinum white, and their eyes were opal and amethyst, tourmaline and jade. “Faster,” they cried, “faster, faster.” She raced, her feet melting the stone wherever they touched. “Faster!” the ghosts cried as one, and she screamed and threw herself forward. A great knife of pain ripped down her back, and she felt her skin tear open and smelled the stench of burning blood and saw the shadow of wings. And Daenerys Targaryen flew.

“ . . . wake the dragon . . . ”

The door loomed before her, the red door, so close, so close, the hall was a blur around her, the cold receding behind. And now the stone was gone and she flew across the Dothraki sea, high and higher, the green rippling beneath, and all that lived and breathed fled in terror from the shadow of her wings. She could smell home, she could see it, there, just beyond that door, green fields and great stone houses and arms to keep her warm, there. She threw open the door.

“ . . . the dragon . . . ”

And saw her brother Rhaegar, mounted on a stallion as black as his armor. Fire glimmered red through the narrow eye slit of his helm. “The last dragon,” Ser Jorah’s voice whispered faintly. “The last, the last.” Dany lifted his polished black visor. The face within was her own.

 

Dany becomes the dragon. Becomes Drogon. She dies and burns like Drogo, and she awakens inside Drogon, with Drogo who is already in there (when will he return to me?). That's the red door, home, inside the dragon with Drogo, inside Drogon.

And when she dies and then wakes inside Drogon ...

Quote

 

"He was no true king," Dany said scornfully. "He did no justice. Justice . . . that's what kings are for."

Ser Jorah had no answer. He only smiled, and touched her hair, so lightly. It was enough.

That night she dreamt that she was Rhaegar, riding to the Trident. But she was mounted on a dragon, not a horse. When she saw the Usurper's rebel host across the river they were armored all in ice, but she bathed them in dragonfire and they melted away like dew and turned the Trident into a torrent. Some small part of her knew that she was dreaming, but another part exulted. This is how it was meant to be. The other was a nightmare, and I have only now awakened.

She woke suddenly in the darkness of her cabin, still flush with triumph. Balerion seemed to wake with her, and she heard the faint creak of wood, water lapping against the hull, a football on the deck above her head. And something else.

Someone was in the cabin with her.

"Irri? Jhiqui? Where are you?" Her handmaids did not respond. It was too black to see, but she could hear them breathing. "Jorah, is that you?"

"They sleep," a woman said. "They all sleep." The voice was very close. "Even dragons must sleep."

 

Balerion wakes with her. Super sized super flamed Drogo. A foot climbs up above her head, someone mounting her. And someone will be there, inside the darkness of Drogon with her, she'll be able to sense him. Drogo.

[The Great and Mighty Poo]

4 hours ago, Anythingatall said:

ASOIAF is the only fantasy epic I have ever read (pretty sure Harry Potter doesn't count).  

 

ASOIAF  is definitely an Epic Fantasy.  And  it is not a traditional trope of Epics to have the children of the POV to be the hero's in the last book or be born by the 7th and/or last book to save the day. Also publishers won't buy books that are like that. The children will have their own story to tell. Take harry potter for example was this the story of his rents and their journey to birth harry no it wasn't that be a prequel or flash back like it was done in the movies. 

[SisterWithoutBanners]

TBH, I don't think anyone will end up riding the dragons in the end. It is fairly clear in ADWD that Daenerys is losing the "control" she had on her dragons. She can't keep them from killing and burning, and at some level I think she begins to fear them (and rightly so - these are dragons after all, not pets to be controlled). I think that the dragons will become more and more unruly, and in the end go out of control, and thereby proving that they are not creatures to be controlled by humans. This will also show that the dragonriders of the past were legends, not real. 

[Ferocious Veldt Roarer]

18 minutes ago, SisterWithoutBanners said:

TBH, I don't think anyone will end up riding the dragons in the end. It is fairly clear in ADWD that Daenerys is losing the "control" she had on her dragons. She can't keep them from killing and burning, and at some level I think she begins to fear them (and rightly so - these are dragons after all, not pets to be controlled). I think that the dragons will become more and more unruly, and in the end go out of control, and thereby proving that they are not creatures to be controlled by humans. This will also show that the dragonriders of the past were legends, not real. 

As long as they were "children", and she was their mom, things were OK. Now, though, they grew up, and nobody ever had been master of more than one dragon at once. Dany wasn't aware of that (that makes Volume LXXIII of "Things Dany Isn't Aware of", BTW).

Dany's relation with Drogon seems to be evolving from "mom - baby" to "rider - dragon" just fine. The remaining two just need riders of their own.

And I don't know how it would be possible for dragonriders to be things of legend.

[Masha]

41 minutes ago, SisterWithoutBanners said:

TBH, I don't think anyone will end up riding the dragons in the end. It is fairly clear in ADWD that Daenerys is losing the "control" she had on her dragons. She can't keep them from killing and burning, and at some level I think she begins to fear them (and rightly so - these are dragons after all, not pets to be controlled). I think that the dragons will become more and more unruly, and in the end go out of control, and thereby proving that they are not creatures to be controlled by humans. This will also show that the dragonriders of the past were legends, not real. 

Westeros has pretty good written history confirmed by Septons and Maesters for the last 300 years. Maesters are scientists of the Westeros, they don't like to write about myths they can't confirm (or at least they write with caveats), they don't like magic because it its science and cannot be proven and they never like dragons. But they write that Targaryens rode the dragons as a fact, without any comments or mentions that it might be some eastern legend. In addition, there were thousands upon thousands of eyewitnesses that Targaeryens flew and controlled their dragons. So it cannot be shown that dragonriders of the past were not real. 

20 minutes ago, Ferocious Veldt Roarer said:

As long as they were "children", and she was their mom, things were OK. Now, though, they grew up, and nobody ever had been master of more than one dragon at once. Dany wasn't aware of that (that makes Volume LXXIII of "Things Dany Isn't Aware of", BTW).

Dany's relation with Drogon seems to be evolving from "mom - baby" to "rider - dragon" just fine. The remaining two just need riders of their own.

And I don't know how it would be possible for dragonriders to be things of legend.

And this 

[LmL]

54 minutes ago, SisterWithoutBanners said:

TBH, I don't think anyone will end up riding the dragons in the end. It is fairly clear in ADWD that Daenerys is losing the "control" she had on her dragons. She can't keep them from killing and burning, and at some level I think she begins to fear them (and rightly so - these are dragons after all, not pets to be controlled). I think that the dragons will become more and more unruly, and in the end go out of control, and thereby proving that they are not creatures to be controlled by humans. This will also show that the dragonriders of the past were legends, not real. 

I guess you haven't read The Princess and the Queen? They definitely were not legends. 

[tugela]

On ‎4‎/‎30‎/‎2016 at 11:24 AM, LucifeLMartelL said:

I can't shake this feeling that Drogon is not meant for Daenerys, i sometimes even ponder if any of them are meant for her?

I know we have seen her riding Drogon, but I felt it was more in terms of Drogon sensing his mother in danger and coming to her aide and rescuing her instinctively. He let her ride him, his mother, as it was, what was required at the moment. But other wise i don't see her being able to do much with him. Its clear she is not in control of him. I also think Danny's story s one of irony. In spite of it all she will never be the queen of westeros and i don't know if any of her dragons are meant for her. But its her destiny to be the bearer of weapons or these vessels that are going to help her family succeed in their ventures but not her, and that will be her legacy. Perhaps, It will be her brother and nephew/nephews who will eventually do it.

Ofcourse i could be totally wrong about all this and GRRM is know for his strong women characters. So if he this the White maiden got to be riding the black dragon, then so be it. But then i don't see Danny in that light, for me she is almost a bit better than Sansa. The strong women character baton is picked up by Arya and also, i don't see Azor Ahai riding the second best Rhaegal or Viserion.
And by the looks of it if R+L = J and then if J is Azor Ahai then I wouldn't be surprised if the crow with his wolf got to ride the black dragon. And that would be something to behold. Then maybe she will actually bond with Rhaegal and the little lion shall ride Viserion.
And i think because of her inability to make Drogon do pretty much anything and not realizing that he actually is not meant for her, she will settle for Victarion's offer and use dragon binder on Drogon thus severe anything sacred between them, Drogon will be enslaved by her to do her bidding till his true rider Azor ahai arrives and takes him off of her. Danny will have to see her most beloved son go and ... bla bla bla ...
Or perhaps Victarion is going to use dragonbinder to slave either Rhaegal or Viserion or both and hence gaining more bargaining power with Danny, to make her marry him . . .

I would like your two cents on this ... Maybe John will have to settle for Rhaegal , who knows... !?

No. Drogon is a warriors dragon. Daenerys is a princess. Fighting might chip a nail.

[tugela]

2 hours ago, SisterWithoutBanners said:

TBH, I don't think anyone will end up riding the dragons in the end. It is fairly clear in ADWD that Daenerys is losing the "control" she had on her dragons. She can't keep them from killing and burning, and at some level I think she begins to fear them (and rightly so - these are dragons after all, not pets to be controlled). I think that the dragons will become more and more unruly, and in the end go out of control, and thereby proving that they are not creatures to be controlled by humans. This will also show that the dragonriders of the past were legends, not real. 

The Valyrian dragon lords used horns to bind dragons to their will. When the Iron Born bring her the horn, she will have control over them.

[Quyen Thuy Tran]

I would love to see Jon as a Dragon Slayer... Lol that's way cooler than riding it. Dany will get mad when her child is killed and we will have civil war. Love the chaos!

[SisterWithoutBanners]

12 hours ago, Masha said:

Westeros has pretty good written history confirmed by Septons and Maesters for the last 300 years. Maesters are scientists of the Westeros, they don't like to write about myths they can't confirm (or at least they write with caveats), they don't like magic because it its science and cannot be proven and they never like dragons. But they write that Targaryens rode the dragons as a fact, without any comments or mentions that it might be some eastern legend. In addition, there were thousands upon thousands of eyewitnesses that Targaeryens flew and controlled their dragons. So it cannot be shown that dragonriders of the past were not real. 

And this 

You make a good point! I always thought of the maesters as more like our historians in the Dark Ages, where history and lore got somewhat mixed together in their writings. But then, ok, I take back the stuff about dragonriding not being real. 

Anyway, my point was that I believe that the dragons will do whatever they want, and not be controlled by humans. It would have been cool if they joined the fight against the others on their own premises, and after the fight returned to Valyria.

[Khal BlackfyreO]

On 5/1/2016 at 10:11 PM, LordToo-Fat-to-Sit-a-Horse said:

 

Actually there is.

This sounds like a skinchanger dragonrider to me.

 

 

But the Arryns are Andals, is there any evidence that non-First Men can Warg?   I was convinced for the longest that the Targs were secret skinchangers, how else could they possibly control those huge wild beasts?  And while there is still a small possibility of this, The Princess and the Queen disabused me of that idea more or less.  I don´t think it matters that much which dragon is ridden by whom, Aegon the Conqueror rode Balerion, who had a good 100 years on Drogon to be bigger and badder and he was no Azhor Azai.  Personally I think he is Dany´s as far as the bond goes, but it's still possible that he will be warged by one of our skinchanging Starks at some point depending on how things go.  

On a side note, why bother being a dragon rider anyway?  When Dany´s dragon are still small they are more than capable of inflicting great damage on their own.  Why can´t Dany just point and say Dracarys like she has done up til now anyway?  It seems riding the dragon just puts you in harms way...That´s how everybody dies in the Dance of Dragons, there getting on a dragon is practically a death sentence.  

[Khal BlackfyreO]

On 5/2/2016 at 0:34 AM, LmL said:

I agree @LordToo-Fat-to-Sit-a-Horse, and was about to point out that the Winged Knight seems to be an older legend which was eventually merged with the Arryn founding legend. That sort of thing is standard procure in the real world, and I've found evidence of Martin recreating that effect in this tale as well as several others. I don't know if this legend is referring to dragon riders or not, but it is certainly not ruled out by anything. We have ample evidence that dragons and dragon riders were in Westeros in the Dawn Age, before Valyria ever existed, and we are also told than Valyria never came in to Westeros, stopping at Dragonstone, until Aegon the Conqueror. Much to do is made of this in TWOIAF. So if the Winged Knight refers to dragon riders, they almost certainly cannot be Valyrian, but would instead be another sitting of Dawn Age dragonlords in Westeros. 

 

On 5/2/2016 at 0:49 AM, LordToo-Fat-to-Sit-a-Horse said:

yes also, there are hints of that these pre-valyrian dragonlords come to westeros to learn the magic of the COTF.

it makes sense for this Geodawnian dragonlord that become the Winged Knight to be a skinchanger.

 

What is the source for this ample evidence of pre-Valyrian dragon riders??'

[Khal BlackfyreO]

On 5/2/2016 at 9:08 PM, Lost Melnibonean said:

I disagree. Drogon is the stallion that mounts the world, and Jon is the prince that was promised. Dude just needs his sword to catch fire like Beric's. 

There is no Prince who was Promised, There is no Azhor Azai.  Prophecy means d$%&.  That is fanboy bull honkey.  This is a different kind of story.  The only prophecy I´ve seen fulfilled was the one where Tyrion said he would shoot Tywin if he said 'Whore' again.  

[Ferocious Veldt Roarer]

1 hour ago, Khal BlackfyreO said:

There is no Prince who was Promised, There is no Azhor Azai.  Prophecy means d$%&.  That is fanboy bull honkey.  This is a different kind of story.  The only prophecy I´ve seen fulfilled was the one where Tyrion said he would shoot Tywin if he said 'Whore' again.  

Read again then, because you missed some stuff.

There's House Targaryen, escaping the Doom of Valyria solely thanks to its daughter's prophetic dream.

There's at least the Red Wedding, foreseen by the Ghost of the High Heart, by Patchface, by Melisandre. There's also Melisandre foreseeing Renly dying by Storm's End and smashing Stannis by King's Landing. And the girl dressed in gray, riding a dying horse.

Melisandre is not the only red priest seeing things in flames. Thoros of Myr foresaw Riverrun coming under siege again.

As for the Ghost of the High Heart, she saw also Renly's death quite accurately, and foresaw Balon's, as well. And Gregor Clegane retaking Harrenhal from the Goat.

There's Jojen's green dreams, heralding the taking of Winterfell, and Bran and Rickon's faked deaths.

There's Maggy the Frog, correctly predicting at least Cersei not marrying a prince, but marrying a king, her having three children and him having many more, and Melara dying that very night.

I have no idea where did you get your "fanboy bull honkey" from (and not entirely sure what that actually means).

[Khal BlackfyreO]

4 hours ago, Ferocious Veldt Roarer said:

Read again then, because you missed some stuff.

There's House Targaryen, escaping the Doom of Valyria solely thanks to its daughter's prophetic dream.

There's at least the Red Wedding, foreseen by the Ghost of the High Heart, by Patchface, by Melisandre. There's also Melisandre foreseeing Renly dying by Storm's End and smashing Stannis by King's Landing. And the girl dressed in gray, riding a dying horse.

Melisandre is not the only red priest seeing things in flames. Thoros of Myr foresaw Riverrun coming under siege again.

As for the Ghost of the High Heart, she saw also Renly's death quite accurately, and foresaw Balon's, as well. And Gregor Clegane retaking Harrenhal from the Goat.

There's Jojen's green dreams, heralding the taking of Winterfell, and Bran and Rickon's faked deaths.

There's Maggy the Frog, correctly predicting at least Cersei not marrying a prince, but marrying a king, her having three children and him having many more, and Melara dying that very night.

I have no idea where did you get your "fanboy bull honkey" from (and not entirely sure what that actually means).

Remind me who made the prophecy of Azhor Azai?

[Ferocious Veldt Roarer]

20 minutes ago, Khal BlackfyreO said:

Remind me who made the prophecy of Azhor Azai?

How the hell should I know?

And if that's your only defense of your point that "The only prophecy I´ve seen fulfilled was the one where Tyrion said he would shoot Tywin if he said 'Whore' again" - it ain't doing the job.

[LordToo-Fat-to-Sit-a-Horse]

7 hours ago, Khal BlackfyreO said:

But the Arryns are Andals, is there any evidence that non-First Men can Warg?   I was convinced for the longest that the Targs were secret skinchangers, how else could they possibly control those huge wild beasts?  And while there is still a small possibility of this, The Princess and the Queen disabused me of that idea more or less.  I don´t think it matters that much which dragon is ridden by whom, Aegon the Conqueror rode Balerion, who had a good 100 years on Drogon to be bigger and badder and he was no Azhor Azai.  Personally I think he is Dany´s as far as the bond goes, but it's still possible that he will be warged by one of our skinchanging Starks at some point depending on how things go.  

On a side note, why bother being a dragon rider anyway?  When Dany´s dragon are still small they are more than capable of inflicting great damage on their own.  Why can´t Dany just point and say Dracarys like she has done up til now anyway?  It seems riding the dragon just puts you in harms way...That´s how everybody dies in the Dance of Dragons, there getting on a dragon is practically a death sentence.  

The Winged Knight was a pre andal "hero" we are told in Twoaif.

Singers later merged the legend with the Falcon knight (the first Arryn)..

We know there were pre valyrian dragonriders in Westeros from the base, made with fused stone of the Hightower.

 

[Drogonthedread]

I guess Even after every dothraki and dosh khaleen kneels to dany and call her TSWMTW and where she names all of them as bloodriders..even then drogon will be called as TsWMTW and not dany ..

 

It would have been nice if dothraki were in westeros then it would have been easy to connect this one also with jon ..poor old paper waver actually claimed once jon will take drogon and dothraki from dany..such bias

[Lost Melnibonean]

1 hour ago, Drogonthedread said:

I guess Even after every dothraki and dosh khaleen kneels to dany and call her TSWMTW and where she names all of them as bloodriders..even then drogon will be called as TsWMTW and not dany ..

 

It would have been nice if dothraki were in westeros then it would have been easy to connect this one also with jon ..poor old paper waver actually claimed once jon will take drogon and dothraki from dany..such bias

If I had to invite one of the two to go bowling, it'd totally be Daenerys. I'd leave the special snowflake to sip wine with Satin at the bar. But I do agree his is the song of ice and fire, and he will ride Drogon after Daenerys dies with the bittersweet taste of lemon.