Minuteman Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 Sandor will learn that he is being blamed for sacking Saltpans and get off the QI to clear his name. That will lead him to the BwB and Brienne along with first hand knowledge of Arya's whereabouts. He'll set off with Brienne (who is the only witness than can clear him so very important to him) to find Arya who he believes continued to the Vale (he doesn't know she went to Braavos). They'll find Sansa in the Vale instead. Afterward no idea but there has been more than one hint that he has some important role in the future (one from a plot standpoint is to tell Sansa that it was LF who betrayed her father to his death as he was there in the throne room when it happened - that's not the big thing imho but that is one important thing). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 Quote Near the kennels a group of men-at-arms were fighting a pair of dogs. Tyrion stopped long enough to see the smaller dog tear half the face off the larger one, and earned a few coarse laughs by observing that the loser now resembled Sandor Clegane. Tyrion II, Storm I suppose this foreshadows the eventual showdown between the brothers Clegane. It looks like Sandor will lose, but perhaps expose Gregor for the undead monster thst he has become... And there is this where Sandor tells us about his intention to kill Gregor... Quote "Gregor never knew what he had, did he? He couldn't have, or he would have dragged you back kicking and screaming to King's Landing and dumped you in Cersei's lap. Oh, that's bloody sweet. I'll be sure and tell him that, before I cut his heart out." Arya IX, Storm UnGregor will slay Sandor because Sandor has no intention of killing his brother and thus he will lose the eventual showdown... Quote It all happened so fast. The Knight of Flowers was shouting for his own sword as Ser Gregor knocked his squire aside and made a grab for the reins of his horse. The mare scented blood and reared. Loras Tyrell kept his seat, but barely. Ser Gregor swung his sword, a savage two-handed blow that took the boy in the chest and knocked him from the saddle. The courser dashed away in panic as Ser Loras lay stunned in the dirt. But as Gregor lifted his sword for the killing blow, a rasping voice warned, "Leave him be," and a steel-clad hand wrenched him away from the boy. The Mountain pivoted in wordless fury, swinging his longsword in a killing arc with all his massive strength behind it, but the Hound caught the blow and turned it, and for what seemed an eternity the two brothers stood hammering at each other as a dazed Loras Tyrell was helped to safety. Thrice Ned saw Ser Gregor aim savage blows at the hound's-head helmet, yet not once did Sandor send a cut at his brother's unprotected face. It was the king's voice that put an end to it . . . the king's voice and twenty swords. Jon Arryn had told them that a commander needs a good battlefield voice, and Robert had proved the truth of that on the Trident. He used that voice now. "STOP THIS MADNESS," he boomed, "IN THE NAME OF YOUR KING!" The Hound went to one knee. Ser Gregor's blow cut air, and at last he came to his senses. He dropped his sword and glared at Robert, surrounded by his Kingsguard and a dozen other knights and guardsmen. Wordlessly, he turned and strode off, shoving past Barristan Selmy. "Let him go," Robert said, and as quickly as that, it was over. Eddard VII, Game Sandor actively avoided trying to kill his brother at his own peril in Eddard VII, Game. He expressed an intention to kill his brother in Arya IX, Storm. But nothing changed in their relation in the interim. Sandor jad no more reason to kill Gregor than when he actively avoided trying to kill his brother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrettyPig Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 I think Sandor is somewhat mirroring Arya's journey at the HoBaW, really. They've both had to dispose of their former identities, the conditional sacrifice for their new lives being that they have to give up their former identities and let go of the hate and the grudges and the need for revenge that has kept them going this long. The Hound is dead; the Gravedigger lives on at the Quiet Isle. Arya Stark is no longer; only the acolyte remains. In their own ways, they have both become "no one". The burning question is, will they STAY no one? Will they be able to shed their canine pelts permanently? Something tells me no. Was having a discussion elsewhere about this, and went back to an idea that a friend suggested about the "seventh ruby" needed on the Quiet Isle....the 7th is the Stranger. They've been waiting for the last representative of the Seven, the one that more or less represents Death. Now think about this: Quote (From the Wiki) "The Stranger's face has been described as half-human, concealed beneath a hooded mantle. The wooden statue of the Stranger burnt on Dragonstone is carved to look more animal than human." Sandor Clegane, aka the Hound, with his half-burned face, now the hooded Gravedigger on the Quiet Isle. Chances are that Sandor is going to come calling for someone soon. Chances are even better that the someone will be his brother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oopeed Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 7 hours ago, W1NT3RF3LL said: Meh, If you think about it his bad deeds were done by command (Not that I am justifying it) but his speech to Sansa about knights being killers and the world essentially being for sharp steel and strong arms is true in this world. Even though we see Ned as an honorable man, he too was a killer just like everyone else was. The hound did what he had to do to survive. In this world I don't see what he did as being cruel and what have you, it was what was needed in order to survive. I would normally agree if it wasn't for Mycah... The butcher's boy deserved a trial fair or not, but didn't do anything to be butchered, even the deserters of the night's watch get their trial. Saying it was all under orders pretty much puts him in the same pot of Gregor and Amory Lorch; what he did was not in order to survive like the Blackwater or his fights in the riverlands, it was an act of cruelty even if it was by Cersei's order rather than his own volition. As I said, he was a man who lived by the sword, and he deserves to be killed by the sword; mad dogs are to be put down after all. There shouldn't be any rest or peace for him. 8 hours ago, Warsaw said: I agree with the taking arms part, but believe he musn't go after the Mountain for his storyline to make sense. What would make sense would be him fighting for Sansa, or someone else with a "just cause". I don't think it's correct to think about the characters in terms of "what they deserve". I mean, sure, he may or may not deserve a lot of things, but as for the plot, that is completely irrelevant. You do realize that "getting the song he wanted from Sansa" would be having sex with her, right? Winning a trial that finally gets one of the culprits of all the senseless killing in Westeros hanged or whatever punishment they get for Cersei seems to make sense to me. If Sansa goes North or to the Riverlands and even remaining in the Vale she already has people to fight for and die for her, so not reaaly a point of having Sandor tailing her. Yes I know that's what he wanted, but a song in the literal sense would be the best he can get before finally leaving for good. People don't always get what they deserve, but then the plot wouldn't need Sandor any longer and he should have stayed dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elisabetta Duò Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 On 6/6/2016 at 10:15 AM, the wolf that never was said: 2 - He lives, having finally fulfilled his sad dream, he finally (perhaps over time)lets go of his hate and finds peace(which for sandor seems IMPOSSIBLE) and goes on to find new meaning in his life. If this happens I'm asking for my money back... it's a fairytale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrin Stark Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 Sansa and the Hound = Beauty and the Beast. I think in the books, the Hound will actually be taking the place of Brienne as Sansa's sworn sword, not her husband because that would nearly be a direct adaptation from the fairy tale in which Martin was a writer for the television series in the 90's. He will realize while on the Quiet Isle that his purpose is to protect the weak and he has always viewed Sansa as being weak and in need of protection. Word will come to him that Sansa is in the Vale or that she is marching with the Vale army to Winterfell and he will go to her and swear allegiance. She will accept and LF will be blind-sided by the turn of events, thus losing control of the hold he had on Sansa as her protector. I don't see Cleganebowl happening at this point, even though that was what I thought would have happened in the first read. I think Un-Gregor is either going to become a great weapon against the Others undead army, which would be opposite of living Gregor to protect people, or he will be the inside weapon of the Others because Qyburn loses control of his creature to the Great Other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W1NT3RF3LL Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 10 hours ago, Merengues said: I would normally agree if it wasn't for Mycah... The butcher's boy deserved a trial fair or not, but didn't do anything to be butchered, even the deserters of the night's watch get their trial. Saying it was all under orders pretty much puts him in the same pot of Gregor and Amory Lorch; what he did was not in order to survive like the Blackwater or his fights in the riverlands, it was an act of cruelty even if it was by Cersei's order rather than his own volition. As I said, he was a man who lived by the sword, and he deserves to be killed by the sword; mad dogs are to be put down after all. There shouldn't be any rest or peace for him. Winning a trial that finally gets one of the culprits of all the senseless killing in Westeros hanged or whatever punishment they get for Cersei seems to make sense to me. If Sansa goes North or to the Riverlands and even remaining in the Vale she already has people to fight for and die for her, so not reaaly a point of having Sandor tailing her. Yes I know that's what he wanted, but a song in the literal sense would be the best he can get before finally leaving for good. People don't always get what they deserve, but then the plot wouldn't need Sandor any longer and he should have stayed dead. What do you think would have happened to him and Micah had he not did what he did? He would be killed, and Micah would have been killed by someone else. Micah, no matter how you slice it was going to die and it was either Sandor does the killing or he gets killed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springwatch Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 If Sandor survives, and Westeros survives, he might have a very good future. I think he must be rich, or at least well off. He had a very responsible job for the richest family in Westeros - what did he do with his wages? He doesn't spend much money - he prefers sour wine to the expensive kind, he prefers the company of guardsmen to knights, he has plain armour, plain everything. If he put that money in the bank, his future is sorted. 3 hours ago, W1NT3RF3LL said: What do you think would have happened to him and Micah had he not did what he did? He would be killed, and Micah would have been killed by someone else. Micah, no matter how you slice it was going to die and it was either Sandor does the killing or he gets killed. I agree with this. Plus Sandor is very much into the idea that killing can be act of mercy (all the soldiers seem to believe this - Beric told his men to give the gift to some wounded enemies). And it was mercy for Micah. Cersei wanted to cut Arya's hand off - what would she have done to a butcher's boy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordToo-Fat-to-Sit-a-Horse Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 i think the only way Cleganebowl happens is because sansa is captured y ser Shadrich and Sandor (and others) save her from Cersei by facing Ser Robert Strong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Señor de la Tormenta Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 Funny enough, he can claim his brothers keep and rents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tianzi Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 1 hour ago, Señor de la Tormenta said: Funny enough, he can claim his brothers keep and rents. Dunno about that, he is a deserter. 20 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said: Quote Near the kennels a group of men-at-arms were fighting a pair of dogs. Tyrion stopped long enough to see the smaller dog tear half the face off the larger one, and earned a few coarse laughs by observing that the loser now resembled Sandor Clegane. Tyrion II, Storm I suppose this foreshadows the eventual showdown between the brothers Clegane. It looks like Sandor will lose, but perhaps expose Gregor for the undead monster thst he has become... And there is this where Sandor tells us about his intention to kill Gregor... If it was so, the bigger dog would win. 20 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said: UnGregor will slay Sandor because Sandor has no intention of killing his brother and thus he will lose the eventual showdown... Why? If Sandor has no intention of killing his brother, there is no reason for any showdown in sight for the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EuronMercdYou Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 I think that Clegane Bowl will happen and that will be the end of Sandor and Gregor both. I think he literally did die, like his brother, and was somehow resurrected by the Faith. His purpose for resurrection is to finally finish things with his brother. My theory for his literal resurrection is here: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 7 hours ago, Tianzi said: Dunno about that, he is a deserter. If it was so, the bigger dog would win. Why? If Sandor has no intention of killing his brother, there is no reason for any showdown in sight for the first place. To save a certain damsel in distress, perhaps? Or maybe he could get mixed up with no one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 Did y'all catch the grave digging foreshadowing? Here, Sandor chooses to follow prayer... Quote Davos recognized the dog’s-head helm of the Hound. A white cloak streamed from his shoulders as he rode his horse up the plank onto the deck of Prayer, hacking down anyone who blundered within reach. And here we see a dog hiding under a seven pointed star... Quote Ser Osmund Kettleblack brought Clegane his shield, a massive thing of heavy oak rimmed in black iron. As the Mountain slid his left arm through the straps, Tyrion saw that the hounds of Clegane had been painted over. This morning Ser Gregor bore the seven-pointed star the Andals had brought to Westeros when they crossed the narrow sea to overwhelm the First Men and their gods. ... Gregor's big wooden shield took its share of hits as well, until a dog's head peeped out from under the star, and elsewhere the raw oak showed through. But Sandor's still a raw oak shield. Oak and iron guard me well, or else I'm dead and doomed to hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamonDanceForMe Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 On 6/6/2016 at 4:15 AM, the wolf that never was said: The hound is one of my fav characters, a tragic, tortured badass. What i was recently thinking about is what exactly does Martin have in store for him. I know about the broken man, cleganebowl (GET HYPE)theories which at this point can be virtually be considered canon. My question is : Where will the character go from there? lets assume Cleganebowl happens and Mountain dies by his brothers hand. In my mind there are two possible outcomes of the trial: 1 - He dies, which may sound stupid killing a character just after bringing him back but it would make sense because we know that for the Hound hate is the only driving force a yearning to one day kill his brother. Having done that he may finally rest and even find peace in his final moments having fulfilled his one goal (a sad one nonetheless) in life. 2 - He lives, having finally fulfilled his sad dream, he finally (perhaps over time)lets go of his hate and finds peace(which for sandor seems IMPOSSIBLE) and goes on to find new meaning in his life. His death in combat would (in my opinion) conclude his life story in a satisfying way(A redeeming end, giving him closure and bringing an end to a bitter life) because honestly i have NO clue whatsoever to where the character would go if he lived on. I would appreciate some thoughts and what anyone thinks will happen and IF he lives where he might go from there? I feel the same way about you for the same reason about Sandor. However, that said, I think I would like option 3. He lives, not having fulfilled his dream of peace (yet) and that is just it. I think that if GRRM left him on the lonely island just digging graves it will have made a very beautiful story for him. Let the wars rage around him and him just stay on the lonely island. Maybe Septon Meribald and the others die or flee and he just remains, digging graves for no one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamonDanceForMe Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 This fight against the mountain really has lancel written all over it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ihaveadognamedclegane Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 There is totally no Clegane Bowl, but he will surely run in to Sansa again. I'm not a fangirl, but I totally agree that in the books Sandor and Sansa have a weird infatuation with each other. I'm betting he gets his song after all. "The Gods still have a plan for Sandor Clegane" is pretty leading. He'll do something important or he wouldn't have been brought back at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ihaveadognamedclegane Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 On 6/6/2016 at 3:33 PM, Tianzi said: Now I think he has a big role with the so called endgame. I don't believe in Cleganebowl, at least not in KL. I think his fate is tied with the Starks, and now he is near Sansa... and Stoneheart. I somehow think that the Riverlands are the ultimate meeting point for Sansa, Sandor, Jaime, Mountain (the fight in Bran's vision), Brienne, LF and UnCat. I so agree with this, from the book standpoint anyway. Genius! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springwatch Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 Staying as gravedigger isn't the most likely option: Is he really content? Throwing spadefuls of dirt at visitors seems more like a bid for attention. Not finding peace in the rules. The horse, Stranger. Why is Elder Brother wasting resources on this useless and dangerous beast? I think Elder Brother is still a fighter at heart, and when the time comes, will send horse and rider out to defend the people. As I said upthread, Sandor never misses out on a disaster by fire (such as, dragons) - I just hope he's left the community when it happens. 35 minutes ago, DamonDanceForMe said: This fight against the mountain really has lancel written all over it Why? Something to do with the Giant's Lance? 6 minutes ago, Ihaveadognamedclegane said: There is totally no Clegane Bowl, but he will surely run in to Sansa again. I'm not a fangirl, but I totally agree that in the books Sandor and Sansa have a weird infatuation with each other. "The Gods still have a plan for Sandor Clegane" is pretty leading. He'll do something important or he wouldn't have been brought back at all. Possibly Clegane Bowl (how the heck is Sansa going to defeat a giant, any sort of giant without help?), but mostly I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamonDanceForMe Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 Just now, Springwatch said: Why? Something to do with the Giant's Lance? Honestly it is nothing that complicated. I really feel it is within Lancel's character to think he can do it. Even think back to clash when he is asking tyrion to give him a battle command and tyrion muses that all young knights think they are invincible. I have no direct textual evidence and so am totally willing and interested in theories to the context -- it just kind of fits in my mind though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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