So what is Sansa's plan? (Possible spoilers)

[OldGimletEye]

1 hour ago, Future Null Infinity said:

I saw a theory and a reviewer on youtube saying that maybe Sansa withhled the information of the Army of the Vale for one reason : if Sansa told Jon about the army of the vale and ramsay knew about it then he will choose the option of the siege, he will stay inside Winterfell and the siege may take months, she didn't tell anyone to make ramsay overconfident about his victory and lure him outside Winterfell in a open field using the winldlings as bait, maybe some people will whine about the life of the wildlings but I bet those poeple cheered for Stannis when he slaughtered them at the wall, but if the theory is right, for me it will be the most genius strategic move ever thought since Stannis' death

I really doubt Sansa thought about that. And certainly, it would have been stupid if people like Jon, Davos, and Bronze Yohn hadn't thought about the implications of a siege while only Sansa did. And there is no particular good reason, why a plan could have been hatched by Jon and the Vale forces to lure Ramsay out of Winterfell.

And any way, the prospect of a siege seemed to be a non-issue with Wun Wun easily smashing in gates.

And oh by the way. Maybe it's possible the Vale and Wilding forces unite anyway and Ramsay still doesn't know their numbers because the show established his recon fucking sucks. Evidently, his guys can't figure out that there is the huge Vale force marching in his rear. Like what the fuck happened to his 20 good men?

[OldGimletEye]

5 hours ago, Lady Sansa's Direwolf said:

I don't know if this was mentioned upstream but, Sansa had to win. If the Boltons remain in power, she's hostage. Even winning, she has nowhere else she can go. South of the Neck, she's a fugitive from the crown..She needs Winterfell to protect herself from her enemies. While we know the true enemies are to the North, everyone she fears is to the South. In Winterfell with an army, Jon, and the others from protection Cersei cannot touch her. She truly will be 'safe' again. While she may be glad to have Jon with her, as he is blood, only Winterfell can protect her from the Lannisters and the Freys and the Tyrells. 

She knows Littlefinger helped Olenna kill Joffrey and did kill Lysa. She thinks she has even information to keep Littlefinger at arm's length. But now Jon needs the North and the Vale to fight the White Walker and the Night King. Regardless of how everyone got there, a shit load of people are now in position to present an obstacle to the army of the dead. 

Sansa, as Lady of Winterfell, will finally get to put what Catelyn taught her to use. "There must always be a Stark in Winterfell." Why not her?

In the books, Jon is offered Winterfell by Stannis and Jon refuses and makes clear that it belongs to Sansa.

I do not think Jon would try to take Winterfell from Sansa, unless the show has come up with some dumb reason for Jon to try to take it from her. And really, if Jon, tried to take Winterfell from his siblings, without his siblings consent, I think it be a case of the show fucking over Jon's character.

Anyway, let's say Sansa does become the lady of Wintefell and Jon says,"uh, we got this little problem we have to deal with up North." What does Sansa do here in this situation? Does she trust Jon here? Or does she fire him because he's a bastard? Does she say, "Jon I don't think your competent enough to lead our people against the Others. You're too emotional or honorable or whatever" Does she start playing,"nana nana, I have a secret" games?

[Future Null Infinity]

1 hour ago, OldGimletEye said:

Like what the fuck happened to his 20 good men?

the 20 good men come when the plot demands it, I think that the 20 good men gave their powers to Jon during the battle

1 hour ago, OldGimletEye said:

his guys can't figure out that there is the huge Vale force marching in his rear

LF made a stargate to teleport all of them directly to Winterfell

1 hour ago, OldGimletEye said:

Anyway, let's say Sansa does become the lady of Wintefell and Jon says,"uh, we got this little problem we have to deal with up North." What does Sansa do here in this situation? Does she trust Jon here? Or does she fire him because he's a bastard? Does she say, "Jon I don't think your competent enough to lead our people against the Others. You're too emotional or honorable or whatever" Does she start playing,"nana nana, I have a secret" games?

I don't think that the writers will put the starks against each other, the tension Jon-Sansa was added for the drama, a bumpy start full of mistrust and then they will be cool (like the start of Arya/Sandor relationship)

[OldGimletEye]

24 minutes ago, Future Null Infinity said:

I don't think that the writers will put the starks against each other, the tension Jon-Sansa was added for the drama, a bumpy start full of mistrust and then they will be cool (like the start of Arya/Sandor relationship)

I agree that was a big motivation here. But, it was done in a very hamfisted manner. And both Jon's and Sansa's character suffered for it.

[tormond]

1 hour ago, OldGimletEye said:

In the books, Jon is offered Winterfell by Stannis and Jon refuses and makes clear that it belongs to Sansa.

I do not think Jon would try to take Winterfell from Sansa, unless the show has come up with some dumb reason for Jon to try to take it from her. And really, if Jon, tried to take Winterfell from his siblings, without his siblings consent, I think it be a case of the show fucking over Jon's character.

Anyway, let's say Sansa does become the lady of Wintefell and Jon says,"uh, we got this little problem we have to deal with up North." What does Sansa do here in this situation? Does she trust Jon here? Or does she fire him because he's a bastard? Does she say, "Jon I don't think your competent enough to lead our people against the Others. You're too emotional or honorable or whatever" Does she start playing,"nana nana, I have a secret" games?

So Sansa is the leader of her people, what people?. Right now the only thing Sansa got going is the littlefinger vale army. Can she take winterfell from jon with littlefinger's help? yes, no doubt, but she has no people that's following her as of right now. Fire jon? with what army? oh yeah, the vale army, Because lets make sure that we are clear on this, the only way sansa can make a power move against jon is by enlisting the vale army. It is not about Sansa trusting Jon, what has jon ever done to her?. It is about him trusting her and i would tell him to tread carefully. I think she's the emotional one who might be easily confused and easily swayed. Yes i hear some say that jon is her brother, but Rickon was her full brother and she was truly concerned about him, did she even looked at the body?

[OldGimletEye]

44 minutes ago, Future Null Infinity said:

the 20 good men come when the plot demands it, I think that the 20 good men gave their powers to Jon during the battle

That and Davos and Jon have to become so damned dumb they can't even walk and chew bubble gum at the same time without falling down and hurting themselves.

And Sandra, who has multiple personality disorder, finds one one of her personalities which is:

Baron FieldMashall Sandra Snark, master of the operational art, and graduate of the general staff school.

[OldGimletEye]

15 minutes ago, tormond said:

So Sansa is the leader of her people, what people?. Right now the only thing Sansa got going is the littlefinger vale army. Can she take winterfell from jon with littlefinger's help? yes, no doubt, but she has no people that's following her as of right now. Fire jon? with what army? oh yeah, the vale army, Because lets make sure that we are clear on this, the only way sansa can make a power move against jon is by enlisting the vale army. It is not about Sansa trusting Jon, what has jon ever done to her?. It is about him trusting her and i would tell him to tread carefully. I think she's the emotional one who might be easily confused and easily swayed. Yes i hear some say that jon is her brother, but Rickon was her full brother and she was truly concerned about him, did she even looked at the body?

Here is the point. I do not think Jon would try to fuck Sansa out of Winterfell, whether Jon had an army and Sansa didn't have one. At least, that's not Jon's book character.

And I agree that Sansa's characterization was badly done and she doesn't come off looking very good here. There is no argument about that. But, that wasn't the point.

[Future Null Infinity]

7 minutes ago, OldGimletEye said:

That and Davos and Jon have to become so damned dumb they can't even walk and chew bubble gum at the same time without falling down and hurting themselves.

And Sandra, who has multiple personality disorder, finds one one of her personalities which is:

Baron FieldMashall Sandra Snark, master of the operational art, and graduate of the general staff school.

I don't think that the show cares too much about characters' personalities, it's not his point of focus, they are focusing more on the stories, personally I don't care too much about that, Daenerys and Jon have the same personalities since episode 1 of season 1 and that doesn't bother me 

[OldGimletEye]

Just now, Future Null Infinity said:

I don't think that care too much about characters personalities, it's not his point of focus, they are focusing more on the stories, personally I don't care too much about that, Daenerys and Jon have the same personalities since episode 1 od season 1 and that doesn't bother me 

Yeah, but when the characterizations go off the rails, the story suffers.

[Lord Friendzone]

I think it's very interesting situation. If Jon becomes King, it gives him power to unite them against walkers, but what about Sansa? Can't see them killing LF just yet. Queen means Jon is powerless. It's possible that they'll separate but can't see Littlefinger giving up Winterfell after all this work. Maybe they'll rule together but Jon will have the title.

It might be that Northerners will declare Jon and push him. Certainly someone like Lyanna Mormont would rather support Jon than Sansa. She'll respect him as a warrior...even tho he made a dumb decision and commander should be keeping his emotions under control. He aleeady got reputation as a skilled swordsman. Also Davos and Tormund mentiond that Jon is anot a King and it was their mistake following Kings Mance and Stannis. Ironic if he becomes a King next episode.

[tinka10]

8 hours ago, Drago said:

I hope little Lady Mormont gives Sansa a serve for not giving vital information to the battle commander, I would enjoy that very much. That battle would have panned out much better for the stark army if she had of used 1 brain cell instead of having her head up her arse. 

If Lady Mormont does find out, I would love it if she called her Sandra Bolton for the rest of her life. Ha!

[bb1180]

1 hour ago, Future Null Infinity said:

I don't think that the writers will put the starks against each other, the tension Jon-Sansa was added for the drama, a bumpy start full of mistrust and then they will be cool (like the start of Arya/Sandor relationship)

Agreed. I've been saying that all along, that its something that the producers tossed in to add a little drama and tension during the middle of the season. I don't think it worked that well, because it came across as being completely one-sided.  Regardless,  though there's one more major test coming in the finale in the form of Littlefinger,   I expect that they're going work out their issues for good before the episode ends.  

[Cas Stark]

3 minutes ago, Lord Friendzone said:

I think it's very interesting situation. If Jon becomes King, it gives him power to unite them against walkers, but what about Sansa? Can't see them killing LF just yet. Queen means Jon is powerless. It's possible that they'll separate but can't see Littlefinger giving up Winterfell after all this work. Maybe they'll rule together but Jon will have the title.

It might be that Northerners will declare Jon and push him. Certainly someone like Lyanna Mormont would rather support Jon than Sansa. She'll respect him as a warrior...even tho he made a dumb decision and commander should be keeping his emotions under control. He aleeady got reputation as a skilled swordsman. Also Davos and Tormund mentiond that Jon is anot a King and it was their mistake following Kings Mance and Stannis. Ironic if he becomes a King next episode.

Maybe she will kill LF in the next episode. I've though it was too soon for him die, but you make a good point that Jon, Sansa and LF all together in WF will be very awkward....I guess he could go South and then come North again when it's time for him to die, LOL.  Who knows.

[Future Null Infinity]

4 minutes ago, bb1180 said:

Agreed. I've been saying that all along, that its something that the producers tossed in to add a little drama and tension during the middle of the season. I don't think it worked that well, because it came across as being completely one-sided.  Regardless,  though there's one more major test coming in the finale in the form of Littlefinger,   I expect that they're going work out their issues for good before the episode ends.  

Episode 10 will answer all this sansa debate and LF fate

[Future Null Infinity]

4 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

Maybe she will kill LF in the next episode. I've though it was too soon for him die, but you make a good point that Jon, Sansa and LF all together in WF will be very awkward....I guess he could go South and then come North again when it's time for him to die, LOL.  Who knows.

You know, I'm fully expecting a parallel to Dany+Tyrion+Varys in the show, in a way, I'm waiting for the same thing : Jon+Sansa+LF until the starks find about ned's death

[Lord Friendzone]

20 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

Maybe she will kill LF in the next episode. I've though it was too soon for him die, but you make a good point that Jon, Sansa and LF all together in WF will be very awkward....I guess he could go South and then come North again when it's time for him to die, LOL.  Who knows.

Littlefinger and Ramsay gone in the space of two episodes...very un-GOT like. Too good to be true but she has to take him down, question is when. His involvement in what happened to Ned must come to light and seriously can't wait for Sandor to show up and this probably means Sansa will stay in the North. I mean they can't just miss each other again. So probably no separation of Jon and Sana just very akward situation in Winterfell.

I got a feeling that when Jon kissed Sansa, Littlefinger was watching them. Then we got their scene in the Godswood. Whether we like it or not Jon and Sansa seems like Ned and Cat in a way. Just without romantic feelings. That might irritate LF much as Jon is threat not only potentially that he might be KitN but that he could steal Sansa and his power over her. He looks like Ned.

 

I heard about Jon and Ghost intervene in the Godswood and threatens LF. Not sure how reliable it is because it's from a different souce than Jon being proclaimed KitN by Northerners.

 

It would cement this weird triangle Ned/Cat/LF turning into Jon/Sansa/LF.

[illinifan]

58 minutes ago, OldGimletEye said:

Here is the point. I do not think Jon would try to fuck Sansa out of Winterfell, whether Jon had an army and Sansa didn't have one. At least, that's not Jon's book character.

And I agree that Sansa's characterization was badly done and she doesn't come off looking very good here. There is no argument about that. But, that wasn't the point.

Spoiler

My understanding is that LF is involved in the scene with the Northern Council and argues for backing Sansa as Lady of Winterfell and a marriage alliance between the Vale and North.  This would make LF in control.  Sansa points this out and renounces her claim in favor of Jon.  Lady Mormont gives an awesome speech shaming the Northern lords.  The Manderlays and other lords pledge fealty to Jon.  

I suspect that this is how LF figures out that something is up with Jon's parentage.

 

[Gdawg007]

On 6/20/2016 at 4:54 AM, robasp2 said:

1.So in next weeks preview we see Jon telling sansa that they have too many enemies and she should trust him. We see Sansa's eyes never meeting Jons.

It feels like she still does not trust him.

2. Little finger tells Sansa he did all this for a reason, and believed he thought Sansa knew it. It turned out he was wrong.

I'm guessing he wants to marry her. How will sansa react to this?

Pour in your thoughts....

I think Sansa's plans have to utilize Jon.  He's a natural leader, a son of Ned Stark, and he has experience she lacks.  The Northern Lords don't trust her.  Plus, her using the Vale for support is all well and good, but the North won't want to owe the Vale anymore than they want to owe King's Landing.  So she needs him.  She can manipulate him, probably more so after the Rickon incident proving she was right about both Ramsey and Jon.  Jon may or may not readily accept that but I suspect he will accept that if he's going to survive to fight the White Walkers, he has to secure a position in the North some how. 

 

I don't think Sansa realistically expects to be Lady of Winterfell, the reality of the world will work against that.  However, the complication here is who is the Stark heir?  Sansa can't produce one and Bran seems unlikely to though I suppose that's a possibility.  Jon could if he was made a Stark but his secret parentage would undo that. 

 

I think Sansa will react with the notion that Littlefinger owed her and that debt is paid.  He doesn't get to pay his debt and then be owed a marriage to claim Winterfell as his own.  That's a steep price for ensuring her cousin came to her aid regardless of the Ramsey fiasco.  I don't think Littlefinger dies, but I do think Jon and Sansa will spurn him and that will cause him to scheme against them. 

[bb1180]

41 minutes ago, Future Null Infinity said:

Episode 10 will answer all this sansa debate and LF fate

I'm not quite as certain about Littlefinger's ultimate fate, but yes,  I also think that we're going to find out where Sansa's allegiances truly lie in this upcoming episode.  I think she's going to be forced to choose,  once and for all,  between ambition or family...Littlefinger or Jon.

That's a choice she got wrong once before.  I don't think she'll make the same mistake twice.       

[Future Null Infinity]

1 minute ago, bb1180 said:

I'm not quite as certain about Littlefinger's ultimate fate, but yes,  I also think that we're going to find out where Sansa's allegiances truly lie in this upcoming episode.  I think she's going to be forced to choose,  once and for all,  between ambition or family...Littlefinger or Jon.

That's a choice she got wrong once before.  I don't think she'll make the same mistake twice.       

sorry but you are wrong, sansa doesn't have ambition to power, she wanted her revenge and she got it, she already made her choice, it's winterfell and house stark