The Grey Wolf Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 1 hour ago, LionoftheWest said: I believe you are wrong on this. After Jason Lannister got killed in the Dance the Lannisters were led by Joanna Lannister and were also so after the Dance when the Lannisters came to terms with the Black Targaryens. Joanna orchestrated the counter-invasion of the Iron Islands and Joanna made peace with the Iron Throne. So the Lannisters were certainly led by a woman at one time in their history. Not to mention the short-lived Lady Cerelle Lannister, the ruling Gardner queen, the Martells, and possibly Borros Baratheon's oldest daughter since nowhere in TPATQ or TWOIAF is he mentioned as having sons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion of the West Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 3 minutes ago, The Grey Wolf said: Not to mention the short-lived Lady Cerelle Lannister, the ruling Gardner queen, the Martells, and possibly Borros Baratheon's oldest daughter since nowhere in TPATQ or TWOIAF is he mentioned as having sons. Good catch! And I may be wrong but were there not a time where women had the de-facto power in the North? And that Duncan was supposed to go there someday and meet the "She-wolves" or some such? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Grey Wolf Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 1 hour ago, LionoftheWest said: Good catch! And I may be wrong but were there not a time where women had the de-facto power in the North? And that Duncan was supposed to go there someday and meet the "She-wolves" or some such? Yes but not in their own right, which is the key distinction. No woman ever ruled as Queen in the North or Queen of Winter (per an SSM) and as far as we know there was never a ruling Lady of Winterfell after the Conquest either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Wraith Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 4 hours ago, devilish said: rapist? To whom? Petyr Baelish himself. Its amazing how many people forget this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devilish Posted May 1, 2017 Share Posted May 1, 2017 11 hours ago, Lord Wraith said: Petyr Baelish himself. Its amazing how many people forget this? Ok Petyr is not the Greatjon but do you really think that Lysa can rape a full grown man? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hodor the Articulate Posted May 1, 2017 Share Posted May 1, 2017 41 minutes ago, devilish said: Ok Petyr is not the Greatjon but do you really think that Lysa can rape a full grown man? Would Petyr have had sex with Lysa were he not high and hallucinating? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devilish Posted May 1, 2017 Share Posted May 1, 2017 10 minutes ago, Hodor the Articulate said: Would Petyr have had sex with Lysa were he not high and hallucinating? Petyr is a complex and vindictive man. He might show affection to a person but ultimately his only love is towards power. He's basically the living embodiment of Lann the clever So here is what I think a- Hoster Tully is the most powerful man Petyr had access to in his young adulthood. He had 3 children, Edmure whose just a baby trout, Cat and Lysa. From an early age, Petyr starts grooming the two girls to love him. He kisses both Lysa and Cat which is sort of strange considering that he claims to love Cat. Surely, you don't show your love to a person by french kissing her sister. So what is his aim? LF wants power and the Tully girls is the key to it. Cat is far more precious then Lysa on that regard. She's the eldest daughter of a widower who refuse to marry again and who only have 1 son. LF is close to both her and Edmure.If someone he can marry her then it won't be that difficult to get rid of the latter afterwards. b- His encounter with Lysa occurred after being rejected in public by Cat. LF gets drunk after being refused by Cat and had to be dragged in his chambers by the black fish. Lysa enters in his chambers and the magic happens. What forced LF to take such a bold move with Cat and why did Lysa acted now? The answer is pretty simple. Just few days before Cat's betrothal to Brandon was announced. LF needed something drastic to publically humiliate Hoster and ruin this future arrangement. He seize the opportunity in a ball were 2 of Hoster's strongest bannermen were present. LF danced 6 dances that night and then he made the killer move. Guess what? Cat rejected him. That surely must have hurt LF. After all he thought that he was the master of the game. Hurt only told part of the story though. LF must have been scared to that of Hoster after that. He made a move at Hoster's daughter, in public, with the sole intention of ruining an arrangement made by the LP. That would probably force Hoster to take serious actions on LF, probably by retracting guest rights and make sure to spread the word that the boy is no good. No one wants a courtier who make sexual advances on his liege Lord's daughter. So what does LF do? He had a backup plan. He had Lysa (whom he knew would do anything for him and had been groomed not to take notice of his flirting with Cat) visit him in his bed chambers while he was 'drunk' and then they had sex. By doing so LF had a secret to blackmail Hoster in case he dares damaging him. Hoster wouldn't want Westeros to see Lysa as a whore who rapes drunk boys in their sleep. I had my share of binge drinking and I happen to know a seasoned social worker whose specialised in alcohol abuse. Alcohol may dampen your better judgement but you don't do anything you don't want to do. In matter of fact, LF's trick works. He lived to tell the tale. Few days/months later he would retry the trick with Brandon Stark. See things from Brandon's perspective. He knows nothing about this Riverlands girl, his father is forcing him to marry. Suddenly his fiancee's best friend, whom he know that had lived in her castle for years shows up, declaring his love to his girlfriend and challenging him for a duel. Another nobleman would start thinking that there's more behind this platonic love. Could it be that there was something cooking up and that Hoster was marrying his prized asset away to the North to stop this scandal from spreading further? In that case why should a Stark, heir to the North, marry damaged goods? Unfortunately for Petyr, the Starks are of a different breed to the noblemen he is used to have around (ie people who allows him to kiss their daughters). He takes his challenge and nearly kills him before Cat stepped in to stop this duel. To conclude, nothing that LF does is not planned. That sex was consent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Wraith Posted May 1, 2017 Share Posted May 1, 2017 18 hours ago, devilish said: Ok Petyr is not the Greatjon but do you really think that Lysa can rape a full grown man? Martin has confirmed this on several occasions. Petyr got blackout drunk and Lysa came up after and in her word "comforted him" aka rape. Granted they were still in their teens but it isn't exact hard to take advantage of someone blackout drunk. 17 hours ago, Hodor the Articulate said: Would Petyr have had sex with Lysa were he not high and hallucinating? When in bed with a ugly women best to get if over with quickly? Also if it got him the Vale I think he would, it was the plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daena the Defiant Posted May 1, 2017 Share Posted May 1, 2017 On 4/30/2017 at 11:14 AM, LionoftheWest said: I believe you are wrong on this. After Jason Lannister got killed in the Dance the Lannisters were led by Joanna Lannister and were also so after the Dance when the Lannisters came to terms with the Black Targaryens. Joanna orchestrated the counter-invasion of the Iron Islands and Joanna made peace with the Iron Throne. So the Lannisters were certainly led by a woman at one time in their history. I'm pretty sure that Johanna Lannister was was the widow of a a previous lord who was ruling in a regency/dowager capacity for her minor son. She wasn't actually Lady of Casterly Rock in her own right as Lady Jeyne Arryn was. Johanna Lannister was more akin to Catelyn or Lysa. There was briefly the reign of the child Lady Cerelle, who inherited from her father, but she was murdered in childhood, so that's not exactly permitting a female High Seat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devilish Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 8 hours ago, Lord Wraith said: Martin has confirmed this on several occasions. Petyr got blackout drunk and Lysa came up after and in her word "comforted him" aka rape. Granted they were still in their teens but it isn't exact hard to take advantage of someone blackout drunk. When in bed with a ugly women best to get if over with quickly? Also if it got him the Vale I think he would, it was the plan. Id suggest you meet a victim of rape and tell her that her rapist was simply 'comforting her'. You'll be surprised about her reactions.LF knew very well what he was doing. His 'rape' earned him a secret which kept Hoster from having him kicked out of Riverrun for good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion of the West Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 16 hours ago, Daena the Defiant said: I'm pretty sure that Johanna Lannister was was the widow of a a previous lord who was ruling in a regency/dowager capacity for her minor son. She wasn't actually Lady of Casterly Rock in her own right as Lady Jeyne Arryn was. Johanna Lannister was more akin to Catelyn or Lysa. There was briefly the reign of the child Lady Cerelle, who inherited from her father, but she was murdered in childhood, so that's not exactly permitting a female High Seat. Well, I suppose you are right if you define it that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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