Your opinion, what happened to Margaery, is it the game or was she a victim?

[Future Null Infinity]

The title say it all,

The death of Margeary, was it because she played the game and lost or was she a victim of circumstances?

I will say she is a victim, she was forcibly dragged to the game by Cersei and Olenna made the things even worse

[Adam_Up_Bxtch]

She was a victim of Cersei's jealously and ambition, so yes I'd agree that she was a victim of circumstance. Cersei wanted her son (and de facto the Iron Throne) completely under her control so she tried to use the High Sparrow to take out her rivals. She was too focused on trying to take down the Tyrells that she didn't see the High Sparrow's deception coming. Everything that has happened in KL since Tywin's death has all been Cersei's fault and hers alone. She did what she did in the finale out of desperation because she had been outplayed.

 

I'd also say that Margaery's death also falls on The Sparrow's shoulder as well, his blindness to Cersei's resolve also cost many lives including his own.

[Lady Noble]

She lost.

Cersei was summoned to that sept as well. She said F you! Margery smelled something a little too late. She either needed to bulldoze through or slip out - with or without her brother. She's been charming enough in other situations if she really wanted so sneak away she could have.

I am glad, however, that they didn't let her blow up like some poor sap, though! She knew something was coming and she just didn't act quite quickly enough. 

[lakin1013]

It was the game.  Margaery was a player and we know that because she gave Olenna the picture of the rose, told her brother to stay close to her (indicating she had plans) and confided in the high septon while not believing a word he said.  The only trouble was that M was a junior league player who was swallowed up in a tidal wave of moves put in place by Cersei, who was playing several levels above Margaery's head.  I can see where one could think M was a victim but she never thought to consider that a bigger fish was also in play.  Big mistake.  Huge!

[StoneColdJorahMormont]

Both were players and both equally skilled at doing so, but Cersei was willing to go one step further than Margaery ever would and that was kill someone and that's what separated them and why Cersei came out on top. Neither were getting one over the other until Cersei levelled up on what she was willing to do to win.

[A spoon of knife and fork]

Margarey was both a victim and a player.  She was definitely outplayed by Cersei last season, who was outplayed in turn by the High Sparrow.  

This season she played the long game to defeat the High Sparrow. She underestimated for the second time the extent to which Cersei would go to destroy her enemies.  She was simply not crazy enough to understand Cerseis level of Crazy.  

She was a victim of Cersei and of the High Sparrow.  She did nothing deserving of mental/physical torture or inprisonment.  

She was not a victim in that she could have chosen to escape along with Olenna.  Make up some excuse and leave for highgarden.  But she was determined to win eventually - and to take back KL from the zealots.  Both for the good of her family and the people of KL.

 

[Back in Black-Snow]

I think, overall, M's intentions were good. But in my opinion she was a player. Just like Cersi told Ned, "When you play the game of thrones, you win or you die." On another note, I think M was a distraction placed in the story by GRRM to divert Cersi's and the audience's attention away from Dany (as the "younger more beautiful"). Now the audience knows who the younger more beautiful person is that will tale Cersi down, bit Cersi thinks she took care of that problem with Wildfire.

[A Ghost of Someone]

It is hard for me to think of anyone of the named characters in King's Landing as victims. The commonfolk who were not given names are the only victims I can think of that were left after Ned and his people were murdered and Sansa escaped that is. House Tyrell was and who is left still is nothing more than dishonorable, treacherous schemers. Margeary was an ambitious traitor as they all knew about the twincest and betrayed the true King, Stannis in order to take for themselves. I just feel bad for the commons who got slaughtered in the  conflict between two, not so likeable scheming Queens, Cersei and Margeary.

[dsug]

Both. She was a victim OF the game. She played it herself, and she played well. As did Cersei. Well, Margaery played the game, and Cersei smashed the board. Margaery was skilled, but her inner goodness ended up getting her killed. She was a victim of Cersei's cruelty, but Marg was still one of the biggest players out there. 

[Knight's King]

She played the game well but Cersei changed the rules. Margaery doesn't have a shit ton of wildfire or an indebted necromancer. She didn't have a chance.

[braveniler58]

Both.

There's no way a granddaughter of the Queen of Thorns didn't know about the game of thrones. She was playing the game from the start - going from Renly to Joffrey to Tommen all because she wanted to be Queen. She spoke the truth when she was confessing about the things she did (like helping the poor, etc etc), but she didn't confess because she felt she had sinned. She confessed because she was playing the game, which she made clear by giving Olenna that note and helping Loras. She knew that was the only way out. 

Margaery is talented at the game, as she knew Cersei was up to something and nobody else did. If the High Sparrow hadn't had a gigantic case of hubris, she could have survived. 

She lost the game, but not without help. She was a victim as well. 

[A spoon of knife and fork]

10 hours ago, A Ghost of Someone said:

It is hard for me to think of anyone of the named characters in King's Landing as victims. The commonfolk who were not given names are the only victims I can think of that were left after Ned and his people were murdered and Sansa escaped that is. House Tyrell was and who is left still is nothing more than dishonorable, treacherous schemers. Margeary was an ambitious traitor as they all knew about the twincest and betrayed the true King, Stannis in order to take for themselves. I just feel bad for the commons who got slaughtered in the  conflict between two, not so likeable scheming Queens, Cersei and Margeary.

You'll have to remind me...  where do the Westerosi go for their paternity tests?  I guess imagine it would be at the citadel but i can't remember where it was that the Tyrells sent Joffery and Tommens' DNA samples to in order to confirm they were Jaime's children not Robert's.  Thanks.

[House_Tony_Stark]

Margaery was a player in every since of the word. She is a grown woman who married a child all for the sake of politics. When she was captured she could have admitted the truth about her brother initially but choose not to. She eventually began to scheme her way into waiting on a chance to turn on the Sparrow once Cercei's trail was over. But in the end Cercei outplayed everyone but eliminating all of them at once.

[House_Tony_Stark]

13 hours ago, A Ghost of Someone said:

It is hard for me to think of anyone of the named characters in King's Landing as victims. The commonfolk who were not given names are the only victims I can think of that were left after Ned and his people were murdered and Sansa escaped that is. House Tyrell was and who is left still is nothing more than dishonorable, treacherous schemers. Margeary was an ambitious traitor as they all knew about the twincest and betrayed the true King, Stannis in order to take for themselves. I just feel bad for the commons who got slaughtered in the  conflict between two, not so likeable scheming Queens, Cersei and Margeary.

This, I think we have a bad habit of pointing the finger at Cersei. When the truth is, nearly everyone in Kings Landing is some form of villian all the way down to the children. However, I don't see all the commoners as innocent people either....many of them would be just as devious if they had the chance.

I personally see no reason as to why Tommen even needed a wife. Margeary is the type of person that would have married a 90 year old man if it suited her goals.

[A spoon of knife and fork]

16 minutes ago, House_Tony_Stark said:

Margaery was a player in every since of the word. She is a grown woman who married a child all for the sake of politics. When she was captured she could have admitted the truth about her brother initially but choose not to. She eventually began to scheme her way into waiting on a chance to turn on the Sparrow once Cercei's trail was over. But in the end Cercei outplayed everyone but eliminating all of them at once.

Yeah because there was a religious zealot bigot who would have Loras executed/punished if he found out the truth.  Margaery acted honorably by protecting her brother Loras.  She would be the worst kind of villain if she'd turned her back on her blood to protect herself.  Men having sex with men is neither illegal in Westeros, nor is it considered immoral by most people.  And neither is the High Sparrow acting out of religious conviction - he's acting to destroy the nobles, and get power for himself (from his perspective "giving it back to the people"). 

[El Guapo]

13 hours ago, A Ghost of Someone said:

It is hard for me to think of anyone of the named characters in King's Landing as victims. The commonfolk who were not given names are the only victims I can think of that were left after Ned and his people were murdered and Sansa escaped that is. House Tyrell was and who is left still is nothing more than dishonorable, treacherous schemers. Margeary was an ambitious traitor as they all knew about the twincest and betrayed the true King, Stannis in order to take for themselves. I just feel bad for the commons who got slaughtered in the  conflict between two, not so likeable scheming Queens, Cersei and Margeary.

You cannot seriously compare Margerary and Cersei both in their likeability and their schemes. There is no comparison.

 

 

[House_Tony_Stark]

Just now, A spoon of knife and fork said:

Yeah because there was a religious zealot bigot who would have Loras executed/punished if he found out the truth.  Margaery acted honorably by protecting her brother Loras.  She would be the worst kind of villain if she'd turned her back on her blood to protect herself.  Men having sex with men is neither illegal in Westeros, nor is it considered immoral by most people.  And neither is the High Sparrow acting out of religious conviction - he's acting to destroy the nobles, and get power for himself (from his perspective "giving it back to the people"). 

Actually that's not true, show me the constitution of Kings Landing....it doesn't exist. The law in this show is based on religion and commands from Lords. And you also can't say most people unless you have data on what the common people believe which none of us do. The High Sparrow was bringing back religious law back to King's Landing like it had been in the past. He did have an agenda against nobles but that's another discussion.

The point is that Margaery did believe in the faith before being captured. So what her brother did was wrong and the majority of people also find it to be wrong considering he kept a a secret and did not want anyone to know. So we can't say it was honorable to defend what was obviously wrong. It would have been honorable had she told the truth and did was was morally right.

[A Ghost of Someone]

37 minutes ago, House_Tony_Stark said:

This, I think we have a bad habit of pointing the finger at Cersei. When the truth is, nearly everyone in Kings Landing is some form of villian all the way down to the children. However, I don't see all the commoners as innocent people either....many of them would be just as devious if they had the chance.

I personally see no reason as to why Tommen even needed a wife. Margeary is the type of person that would have married a 90 year old man if it suited her goals.

Yep, Marge wanted to be THE Queen, not just a Queen and they were willind to do anything to make that happen.

[A Ghost of Someone]

14 minutes ago, El Guapo said:

You cannot seriously compare Margerary and Cersei both in their likeability and their schemes. There is no comparison.

 

 

They are both unlikeable but yes, quite different. Cersei is a psychopath who cares not a fig for the lives of common people yet Margeary is a manipulator who atleast realizes that rulers must have people behind them to keep them in their position.

[A Ghost of Someone]

3 hours ago, A spoon of knife and fork said:

You'll have to remind me...  where do the Westerosi go for their paternity tests?  I guess imagine it would be at the citadel but i can't remember where it was that the Tyrells sent Joffery and Tommens' DNA samples to in order to confirm they were Jaime's children not Robert's.  Thanks.

The rumors were somewhat known before Ned figured it out. Renly was already scheming behind the scenes to get Margeary and Robert together to displace Cersei. Also, that Great Big Book of Everything that is in every major house which describes the lineages and descriptions of children born in noble houses was updated when children were born,. Stanni's letter to the realm opened a lot of eyes and quite frankly, those kids were all blonde and looked like their mother and Uncle Jaime, even though the show got sloppy and let Nocolai and Dinklage have their normal color hair. IT is obvious those kids are not Robert's once people started paying attention.