Why did Robert hate the Targaryens so much?

[Protagoras]

2 hours ago, Universal Sword Donor said:

We can just gloss over the completely unjustified call for his head, the public dishonor done to him at HH, the heir to the throne running off (at best) with his fiancee. 

Thats an explanation (at best) to why he began hating them, not a reason why he kept going with that hate 15 years later.

Yet he did - despite that his rebellion had claimed all involved as well as their dynasty, which tells alot about his character. And we know quite alot about his character. It´s shit. And the reason people defend him that said character appeals to some really misguided people. He is the frat boy, the cool person that everyone wants to be and he is defended because he looks good on the surface.

Then again, I absolutely hated house Gryffindor in Harry Potter (seriously, even with Rowlings writing to make them heroes it´s obvious that they are worse bullies than the others combined and that Rowling doesn´t get why bravery might be a bad thing) so this might just be me. I identify myself as a Slytherclaw after all (and yes, I think this is connected to my issues with Robert - he makes it easy for me to hate him).

[Universal Sword Donor]

16 minutes ago, Protagoras said:

Thats an explanation (at best) to why he began hating them, not a reason why he kept going with that hate 15 years later.

Yet he did - despite that his rebellion had claimed all involved as well as their dynasty, which tells alot about his character. And we know quite alot about his character. It´s shit. And the reason people defend him that said character appeals to some really misguided people. He is the frat boy, the cool person that everyone wants to be and he is defended because he looks good on the surface.

Then again, I absolutely hated house Gryffindor in Harry Potter (seriously, even with Rowlings writing to make them heroes it´s obvious that they are worse bullies than the others combined and that Rowling doesn´t get why bravery might be a bad thing) so this might just be me. I identify myself as a Slytherclaw after all (and yes, I think this is connected to my issues with Robert - he makes it easy for me to hate him).

I'm not saying it's enough reason to hate the entire family of Targs but when your parents died performing a completely unnecessary service for Aerys, the king wants to kill you and your best friend for no valid reason, his son runs off with your beloved/betrothed, and he murders your future in-laws, I can see why the grudge runs pretty deep.

[Quellon]

43 minutes ago, Boarsbane said:

He didn't murder Rhaegar, he killed him in battle. And he obviously didn't thirst after Dany and Viserys too much as he left them mostly alone for over a decade.

Murder, killed, what's the difference? I meant in battle of course.

[Universal Sword Donor]

5 minutes ago, Quellon said:

Murder, killed, what's the difference? I meant in battle of course.

One is unlawful, the other is a tad more acceptable especially when the only reason the killer is fighting happens to be because your side wanted him unlawfully killed.

[Laughing Storm Reborn]

2 hours ago, Protagoras said:

Thats an explanation (at best) to why he began hating them, not a reason why he kept going with that hate 15 years later.

Yet he did - despite that his rebellion had claimed all involved as well as their dynasty, which tells alot about his character. And we know quite alot about his character. It´s shit. And the reason people defend him that said character appeals to some really misguided people. He is the frat boy, the cool person that everyone wants to be and he is defended because he looks good on the surface.

Then again, I absolutely hated house Gryffindor in Harry Potter (seriously, even with Rowlings writing to make them heroes it´s obvious that they are worse bullies than the others combined and that Rowling doesn´t get why bravery might be a bad thing) so this might just be me. I identify myself as a Slytherclaw after all (and yes, I think this is connected to my issues with Robert - he makes it easy for me to hate him).

I'm a Robert fan, i don't find myself misguided, that would be being a fan of a character yet to be known (e.g: rhaegar)... It's fantasy, all of them are shitty in a way or another by our standards 

[Maxxine]

23 hours ago, Beautiful Bloody Sword said:

Not over the years did it grow, if anything, it softened over time and was even abandoned completely on his deathbed. But it was at it's hottest right after the Trident and sack of KL, noticeable in his approval of Rhaegar's children and wife being gruesomely murdered by Tywin's dogs, which he would've quickly done to Dany and Viserys also, if he'd had the chance. Jon Arryn stayed his hand on really going after Dany and Ned  followed suit in his stead, but neither could've stopped him if he had got his hands on the escaping dragonspawns before they flew the coup, back a good 16 years before present time in the books.

I definitely don't think it softened over time. At the beginning of Game he discusses wishing he can Rhaegar multiple times and the dragon spawn. And he wants to kill Dany, a child, and her unborn child throughout Game. That in no way indicates a softening of his stance. Even Ned finds his continued grudge against Targs troubling. I will agree he saw the error of his was on his deathbed. But idk if that means he let go of his hatred of Targs or just realized killing children is wrong regardless of their family.

[Dorian Martell's son]

On 2/7/2017 at 0:18 PM, Quellon said:

Ned had far more reasons to hate the Mad King and his house, yet Robert hated them much more. While Ned certainly hated Aerys for murdering his father and brother, his hatred didn't stretch to Aerys' children. I am not sure how he felt towards Rhaegar, but I doubt he actually hated him. And of course, he opposed Robert's plan to poison Daenerys. Was Robert's hatred simply a product of his own flawed personality or?

Ned made peace with Rhaegar out of love for his sister and Jon.  The man that killed his father and brother died in the sack of king's landing 
Bob hated Rhaegar and by proxy all Targs because he was madly in love with Lyanna who died after she went with Rhaegar.  Bob seems to need there to be a rape and killing to rationalize his hatred, especially now that he is king.  Any targ could try to reclaim their throne from him by nature of him being an usurper.   

[Boarsbane]

6 hours ago, Quellon said:

Murder, killed, what's the difference? I meant in battle of course.

Murder implies Robert did something wrong in killing the man who was leading an army trying to kill him. 

[purple-eyes]

Robert's long-term love (in lyanna) and hate (in rhaegar) are actually quite out of character and written mainly for the plots. 

 

[myhalfgroat]

3 hours ago, purple-eyes said:

Robert's long-term love (in lyanna) and hate (in rhaegar) are actually quite out of character and written mainly for the plots. 

 

this is an interesting take. how do you figure this is out of character?

personally I've always thought that his obsession with Lyanna was indulging in a fantasy that everything would have been perfect, if only...

and then his (totally justified) hate for Rhaeger strikes me as him needing an enemy and Rhaeger was the ultimate one. Bob only seems happy when he's fighting or drinking with the people he just beat in a fight. but now he's king and there's no more enemy for him. so he reminisces about how it could have been, if only...

[1000th Lord Commander]

I always figured that it was always in Robert's charecter to hate the Targs. He has a few reasons:

I think that on some level, he knew that Lyanna would have picked Rhaegar over him. He refuses to consider it openly, but it would gnaw at him.

He feels inadaquate to the Throne, and resents those who might otherwise have sat there.

They are a threat to him and his line. While any Targ lives, who can't be dismissed as a pretender the way that fAegon can, it would be in the back of his mind that they could land and raise a army, possibly toppling his reign.

[devilish]

His parents died young because the mad king thought that his boy deserved better then marrying off someone from Westeros. That same son grew up only to steal the only Stark, Bob could share a bed with without looking wierd. He had reason to hate them

[Lord of Raventree Hall]

On 2/8/2017 at 8:58 AM, Maxxine said:

 

I think is just a character flaw in Robert just bc its so irrational. He started out justifiably hating Rhaegar and over the years it's evolved into hating all Targs. I'm not even convinced he actually loved Lyanna. He has just fallen in love with the thought of her over the years.

Well said. You stole the words out of my mouth. I guess I would only add that Robert seems a bit dilusional. I mean everyone hates on Sansa for being obsessed with the old stories. Robert didn't even know Lyanna. He seems just as clueless to me as Sansa was at the beginning of the books.

[Universal Sword Donor]

15 hours ago, Maxxine said:

I definitely don't think it softened over time. At the beginning of Game he discusses wishing he can Rhaegar multiple times and the dragon spawn. And he wants to kill Dany, a child, and her unborn child throughout Game. That in no way indicates a softening of his stance. Even Ned finds his continued grudge against Targs troubling. I will agree he saw the error of his was on his deathbed. But idk if that means he let go of his hatred of Targs or just realized killing children is wrong regardless of their family.

He wants to kill Dany and her son because he doesn't want her invading the 7 kingdoms with a ton of Dothraki.

He didn't exactly go out of his way to kill her or Viserys when they fled to Essos.

[Quellon]

15 hours ago, Boarsbane said:

Murder implies Robert did something wrong in killing the man who was leading an army trying to kill him. 

Damn right he did! Rhaegar was ten times a better man than Robert, sure he did wrong. That is not being objective but who cares. It's the truth. Robert killed him because he had taken "his" woman away from him. He was so delusional, Robert. That was the main motivation for starting the whole rebellion, for him. And that is not very honorable, is it?

[Boarsbane]

1 hour ago, Quellon said:

Damn right he did! Rhaegar was ten times a better man than Robert, sure he did wrong. That is not being objective but who cares. It's the truth. Robert killed him because he had taken "his" woman away from him. He was so delusional, Robert. That was the main motivation for starting the whole rebellion, for him. And that is not very honorable, is it?

What did Rhaegar do that made him such a great man? Nothing, we don't hear about how well he ran the kingdom while his father decended into madness, we don't see him take control of the loyalist war effort until the end, and he ends up losing the decisive battle and getting killed in the process. All we have are people saying he was book smart and could play a harp, and he'd of been better than his dad which isn't saying much. Robert didn't start the rebellion, Rhaegar had a bigger role in starting it than Robert, who did nothing until Aerys demanded Jon Arryn kill him and Jon Arryn rebelled. 

[Universal Sword Donor]

1 hour ago, Quellon said:

Damn right he did! Rhaegar was ten times a better man than Robert, sure he did wrong. That is not being objective but who cares. It's the truth. Robert killed him because he had taken "his" woman away from him. He was so delusional, Robert. That was the main motivation for starting the whole rebellion, for him. And that is not very honorable, is it?

Nor is defending yourself from an unrighteous execution order! DOWN WITH ROBERT

[Quellon]

1 hour ago, Boarsbane said:

What did Rhaegar do that made him such a great man? Nothing, we don't hear about how well he ran the kingdom while his father decended into madness, we don't see him take control of the loyalist war effort until the end, and he ends up losing the decisive battle and getting killed in the process. All we have are people saying he was book smart and could play a harp, and he'd of been better than his dad which isn't saying much. Robert didn't start the rebellion, Rhaegar had a bigger role in starting it than Robert, who did nothing until Aerys demanded Jon Arryn kill him and Jon Arryn rebelled. 

I am not talking about his capability as a commander, which we really cannot judge him at since he didn't fight that much or command an army at war except that one time. I am talking about his PERSONALITY. Whereas Robert was too proud and prone to anger, brutal, harsh, a womanizer and a bit bigheaded, Rhaegar was calm, wise beyond his years, gentle, compassionate and...he might have been married with children, but when he saw Lyanna, he knew he had found the love of his life. And so did she, obviously. He didn't father a single bastard, unlike Robert. What else do you got?

Well...he did father ONE bastard, but that one was a love child for sure and an exceptional guy.

[Boarsbane]

19 minutes ago, Quellon said:

I am not talking about his capability as a commander, which we really cannot judge him at since he didn't fight that much or command an army at war except that one time. I am talking about his PERSONALITY. Whereas Robert was too proud and prone to anger, brutal, harsh, a womanizer and a bit bigheaded, Rhaegar was calm, wise beyond his years, gentle, compassionate and...he might have been married with children, but when he saw Lyanna, he knew he had found the love of his life. And so did she, obviously. He didn't father a single bastard, unlike Robert. What else do you got?

Well...he did father ONE bastard, but that one was a love child for sure and an exceptional guy.

Robert was very kind to most of his friends, and even his enemies, he was probably  overly forgiving in some cases, he showed Balon mercy he certainly didn't deserve, he convinced men who were fighting against him to fight for him instead, even to die for him. This doesnt sound like a harsh man to me. He could be considered a brute but his tactics and the way he rules certainly arent brutal. Rhaegar was more reserved and book smart than Robert, but that doesn't make him a better person, for a person wise beyond his years he sure didn't see the consequences of kidnapping or eloping with Lyanna, or he didn't care. It's nice of you to overlook his abandonment of his wife and infant children for "the love of his life", but to most of us its a dick move. Robert wasn't a great guy but he was a much better man than Rhaegar, who hid in a tower while better men fought and died in the war he helped start.

[Quellon]

1 minute ago, Boarsbane said:

Robert was very kind to most of his friends, and even his enemies, he was probably  overly forgiving in some cases, he showed Balon mercy he certainly didn't deserve, he convinced men who were fighting against him to fight for him instead, even to die for him. This doesnt sound like a harsh man to me. He could be considered a brute but his tactics and the way he rules certainly arent brutal. Rhaegar was more reserved and book smart than Robert, but that doesn't make him a better person, for a person wise beyond his years he sure didn't see the consequences of kidnapping or eloping with Lyanna, or he didn't care. It's nice of you to overlook his abandonment of his wife and infant children for "the love of his life", but to most of us its a dick move. Robert wasn't a great guy but he was a much better man than Rhaegar, who hid in a tower while better men fought and died in the war he helped start.

Lol, a MUCH better man, I bet not many will agree with that. And he did not HIDE, he was there for Lyanna, which shows how good he was. Robert was lenient to Barristan and Balon, because he valued courage. It seems that's all he valued.