The Colors of Magic: spitballing the spectrum

[Curled Finger]

1 minute ago, hiemal said:

My guess is that brown is the "common" hair color of unaltered humanity.

Blond seems linked to gold and the sun.

Red hair needs to broken down into "normal" human red and "Melisandre" red. She seems to be wearing her eye color in her hair. Is that natural? Does the meaning of the color change from eye to hair?

Bald? Black hair? Gray? White? Bald? The sphinxes riddle in men's hair?

Speaking of multicolored hair- what about the Tyroshi and their dyes? Daario with his blue and gold hair?  Archon's daughter and interestingly enough the young Manderly girl with their green locks also seem significant.

 

To the hair, exactly.   The dyed hair might be something.   Green Beard, Griff & Young Griff, Sansa, Daario.   Then the natural hair color that is 2 colors, red & white, white blonde & black and black with Silver.   Bald is another good one.   Tywin is bald.   These appearances are striking enough to make mention of so we should pay attention.    

Sansa dyes her hair brown to hide her identity, same with Griff and Young Griff, perhaps this is what Daario is up to as well.   At this mention I'm going to your definition for brown.  Maybe it is nobility in hiding?   Then again, perhaps the dye in general is nobility in hiding...or secret identity?   I've been entrenched in @Lady Blizzardborn and @bemused excellent Daario is...topics lately.   It's obvious Daario is not just a random sellsword, whomever he might really be.  

Hang on, how about shorn hair?   Arya and Cersei both have their hair cut.  Cersei is exposed and Arya is hidden, so this does something, too, right? 

Do you know if the Archon's daughter and Manderly girl dye their hair or is it naturally green?   I just had an experience with grey dye turning my hair blue then green (lesson learned, leave it the hell alone unless you dig the muppet look).  Light blondes tend to turn green swimming in too much chlorine.   I have very dark hair naturally and haven't been swimming but my hair turned green so I can't explain the metamorphosis.   What beyond dye could explain green hair?   

[hiemal]

Re: multi-colored hair

Does having two or more distinct hair colors indicate anything important about lineage? Is it a kind fused hybridization as opposed to "mongrelization"? Is Tyrion's hair of gold and black reflecting a merging of golden lions and black dragons, for example?

What does the black and white n Darkstar's hair represent? Night and Dawn? Or is it a tie to the House of Black and White?

[Curled Finger]

1 minute ago, hiemal said:

Re: multi-colored hair

Does having two or more distinct hair colors indicate anything important about lineage? Is it a kind fused hybridization as opposed to "mongrelization"? Is Tyrion's hair of gold and black reflecting a merging of golden lions and black dragons, for example?

What does the black and white n Darkstar's hair represent? Night and Dawn? Or is it a tie to the House of Black and White?

For Tyrion and Dayne I could see the bicolor meaning bastard or noble bastard, but that's not any good for Jaqen's hair.  Of course, he's supposed to be Tyroshi so maybe it doesn't count.    I tend to think it does because the bicolor is mentioned more than once.   

Hmm, what qualities do Tyrion and Darkstar have in common?   

[hiemal]

Just now, Curled Finger said:

To the hair, exactly.   The dyed hair might be something.   Green Beard, Griff & Young Griff, Sansa, Daario.   Then the natural hair color that is 2 colors, red & white, white blonde & black and black with Silver.   Bald is another good one.   Tywin is bald.   These appearances are striking enough to make mention of so we should pay attention.   

 

Particularly to Tywin's sidechops, or whatever. Gold and Bolton pink?

2 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

  

Sansa dyes her hair brown to hide her identity, same with Griff and Young Griff, perhaps this is what Daario is up to as well.   At this mention I'm going to your definition for brown.  Maybe it is nobility in hiding?   Then again, perhaps the dye in general is nobility in hiding...or secret identity?   I've been entrenched in @Lady Blizzardborn and @bemused excellent Daario is...topics lately.   It's obvious Daario is not just a random sellsword, whomever he might really be.  

 

I agree- The Lady's reasoning has made me question what I thought I knew about Daario. The question of his hair has a new urgency.

Both Young Griff and Daario use blue, although iirc Daario switches to purple for a while before to reverting to form.

I'm sure this wasn't mentioned by chance but I don't remember if the rest of the color scheme changed during the purpleing. To what extant does purple here represent the "royal" purple of old Tyre? Considering the Tyre/Tyrosh thing and the focus on dyes I'm inclined to say a lot- but then GRRM puts the color purple in Braavos- our Venice analog.

6 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

@Lady Blizzardborn@bemused

Hang on, how about shorn hair?   Arya and Cersei both have their hair cut.  Cersei is exposed and Arya is hidden, so this does something, too, right? 

Do you know if the Archon's daughter and Manderly girl dye their hair or is it naturally green?   I just had an experience with grey dye turning my hair blue then green (lesson learned, leave it the hell alone unless you dig the muppet look).  Light blondes tend to turn green swimming in too much chlorine.   I have very dark hair naturally and haven't been swimming but my hair turned green so I can't explain the metamorphosis.   What beyond dye could explain green hair?   

Hmmm, shorn as opposed to losing one's hair by age. I like it.

7 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

 

 

Do you know if the Archon's daughter and Manderly girl dye their hair or is it naturally green?   I just had an experience with grey dye turning my hair blue then green (lesson learned, leave it the hell alone unless you dig the muppet look).  Light blondes tend to turn green swimming in too much chlorine.   I have very dark hair naturally and haven't been swimming but my hair turned green so I can't explain the metamorphosis.   What beyond dye could explain green hair?   

It's all dye- the Manderly's to be more merlike, I assume- they are as hungry as their undersea brethren as Lord-Too-Fat-To-Sit-A-Horse shows.

Not sure about the Archon's daughter. I think she is only briefly mentioned by Arianne?

[hiemal]

5 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

For Tyrion and Dayne I could see the bicolor meaning bastard or noble bastard, but that's not any good for Jaqen's hair.  Of course, he's supposed to be Tyroshi so maybe it doesn't count.    I tend to think it does because the bicolor is mentioned more than once.   

Hmm, what qualities do Tyrion and Darkstar have in common?   

Misplaced lesser sons standing in the shadow of others of their name  springs immediately to mind. They are both their own men and both dangerous in their own way.

[Curled Finger]

1 minute ago, hiemal said:

Misplaced lesser sons standing in the shadow of others of their name  springs immediately to mind. They are both their own men and both dangerous in their own way.

Oh very nice.   How about their relationships to Queens or future Queens?  Forces in the change in rule? 

[hiemal]

5 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

Oh very nice.   How about their relationships to Queens or future Queens?  Forces in the change in rule? 

That's a chilling thought! Would that be an argument for him somehow ironically ending up an agent of Cersei, I wonder.

They would make an interesting solar pair.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

13 hours ago, hiemal said:

I haven't forgotten it- I just haven't found a place yet

Jojen's eyes in particular demand explanation but beyond the greed/red/blue dreams and the Green Men I don't have a lot of connections beyond the Lannister's and Cersei's emeralds.

I wonder if Lann the Clever had green eyes. Living during the Age of Heroes he could well have had some contact with the CotF, in which case we might be justified in asking whether he was really so clever or he got special information from the Children the way Brandon the Builder did.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

2 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

<snip

Hang on, how about shorn hair?   Arya and Cersei both have their hair cut.  Cersei is exposed and Arya is hidden, so this does something, too, right? 

Do you know if the Archon's daughter and Manderly girl dye their hair or is it naturally green?   I just had an experience with grey dye turning my hair blue then green (lesson learned, leave it the hell alone unless you dig the muppet look).  Light blondes tend to turn green swimming in too much chlorine.   I have very dark hair naturally and haven't been swimming but my hair turned green so I can't explain the metamorphosis.   What beyond dye could explain green hair?   

And Egg shaved off his hair so no one would know he was a Targaryen. Don't forget Varys is also a potential shaver.

We haven't seen any naturally green hair in the series yet. The Archon's daughter would dye hers because it's the custom in Tyrosh. Not sure what Wylla Manderly might be up to other than being a teenager and dying her hair maybe to drive her mother crazy.

I'm thinking that CotF blood might be another explanation for green hair.

2 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

For Tyrion and Dayne I could see the bicolor meaning bastard or noble bastard, but that's not any good for Jaqen's hair.  Of course, he's supposed to be Tyroshi so maybe it doesn't count.    I tend to think it does because the bicolor is mentioned more than once.   

Hmm, what qualities do Tyrion and Darkstar have in common?   

We have it from Ran that Darkstar "is no one's bastard." So that's out for him.

Jaqen is supposed to be Lorathi I think.

2 hours ago, hiemal said:

Particularly to Tywin's sidechops, or whatever. Gold and Bolton pink?

I agree- The Lady's reasoning has made me question what I thought I knew about Daario. The question of his hair has a new urgency.

Both Young Griff and Daario use blue, although iirc Daario switches to purple for a while before to reverting to form.

I'm sure this wasn't mentioned by chance but I don't remember if the rest of the color scheme changed during the purpleing. To what extant does purple here represent the "royal" purple of old Tyre? Considering the Tyre/Tyrosh thing and the focus on dyes I'm inclined to say a lot- but then GRRM puts the color purple in Braavos- our Venice analog.

Part of the time Daario's hair is half purple and half gold. Aenys I liked to dress in purple and gold, though his particular purple might have been a lighter shade. I recall lilac having been mentioned but can't remember if that was for his clothing or the shade of his eyes.

Braavos may be a red (+blue = purple) herring.

[Sigella]

17 hours ago, hiemal said:

I've seen a lot of really interesting ideas about colors and what they mean recently and I thought it might be productive to start a thread specifically on that theme. If you have any ideas about colors, gems, eyes, metals, , magic, the Seven, yadda yadda trot them out! No matter how vague.

For example:

I'm playing with the idea of color schemes and "branches" of magic. I see white and red as representing the power of the weirwoods and their network. This is reflected in the theme of albinism.

The power of fire- of R'hlorr of flame and shadow as well as House Targaryen- seems to red and black.

The power of ice would be white and blue as in the skin and the eyes of the Others.

The power of the sea I'm guessing is blue and black, as the Shade of the Evening and

  Reveal hidden contents

Euron's eyes.

 

Just spit and tinfoil at this point but you get the idea.

Does anyone have any interesting ideas about dragon scales? I've been looking to work some fresh tinfoil on those colors in particular.

 

 

 

Loving this thread!

13 hours ago, hiemal said:

Possibly.Yellow is gold and the sun- both potent but not magical but amber is magical in a preservative sense and found in jewelry and in eyes.And honey! Honey is sunlight alchemically changed into gold, contrasted I believe with wildfire.

I always thought sun correlated with bronze? 

3 hours ago, hiemal said:

My guess is that brown is the "common" hair color of unaltered humanity.

Blond seems linked to gold and the sun.

Red hair needs to broken down into "normal" human red and "Melisandre" red. She seems to be wearing her eye color in her hair. Is that natural? Does the meaning of the color change from eye to hair?

Bald? Black hair? Gray? White? Bald? The sphinxes riddle in men's hair?

Speaking of multicolored hair- what about the Tyroshi and their dyes? Daario with his blue and gold hair?  Archon's daughter and interestingly enough the young Manderly girl with their green locks also seem significant.

 

No, don't discount brown! We have Brown Ben Plum, the Mudd dude in the GC plus Nettles and Sheepstealer. They all play pretty interesting roles, being Dragon-favorites and treacherous both.

[hiemal]

3 hours ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

I wonder if Lann the Clever had green eyes. Living during the Age of Heroes he could well have had some contact with the CotF, in which case we might be justified in asking whether he was really so clever or he got special information from the Children the way Brandon the Builder did.

I'm betting he had at least one green eye.

My guess is that Lann was GEotD, so he may not have needed information from the children because he brought his own trove of gadgets and tricks from back to home to impress the natives?

[hiemal]

1 hour ago, Sigella said:

Loving this thread!

I always thought sun correlated with bronze? 

 

I wouldn't have guessed so because of the alloyed nature of bronze but I'm open to the idea.

1 hour ago, Sigella said:

No, don't discount brown! We have Brown Ben Plum, the Mudd dude in the GC plus Nettles and Sheepstealer. They all play pretty interesting roles, being Dragon-favorites and treacherous both.

Never- I've also noticed it in the Ironborn and remember Selmy's reflections on mud and fire, and which fools inevitably pick. "Common" doesn't mean worthless, no matter what the class system of Westeros might say.

And Brown Ben might be the exemplar of the color brown as mongrel vigor and a free mixing of heritages and cultures as opposed to the rigid dichotomies of heterochromia and divided hair. Natural as opposed to magical enforcement of bloodlines?

[The Fattest Leech]

15 hours ago, hiemal said:

Possibly.Yellow is gold and the sun- both potent but not magical but amber is magical in a preservative sense and found in jewelry and in eyes.And honey! Honey is sunlight alchemically changed into gold, contrasted I believe with wildfire.

That is an excellent answer! Thank you

[hiemal]

2 hours ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

Part of the time Daario's hair is half purple and half gold. Aenys I liked to dress in purple and gold, though his particular purple might have been a lighter shade. I recall lilac having been mentioned but can't remember if that was for his clothing or the shade of his eyes.

Braavos may be a red (+blue = purple) herring.

Purple/gold and blue/gold could be the colors of dusk, blue and gold of noon? First thought off the top of my head.

Or braavos could be a double feint- there is something important to do with the concept of empire hidden in egalitarian Braavos?

 

[Cridefea]

What an interesting thread!

21 hours ago, hiemal said:

The power of fire- of R'hlorr of flame and shadow as well as House Targaryen- seems to red and black.

17 hours ago, Kienn said:

Fire and Blood are the words

Black and Red are the colors

Black = Fire

Red = Blood

Blood is described as black,too. In another thread someone wrote some good posts about it, @OtherFromAnotherMother maybe?

Black seems to be a powerful magic color, GRRM also used it for some VS swords like Blackfyre and Orphan-maker.

[OtherFromAnotherMother]

1 hour ago, Cridefea said:

What an interesting thread!

Blood is described as black,too. In another thread someone wrote some good posts about it, @OtherFromAnotherMother maybe?

Black seems to be a powerful magic color, GRRM also used it for some VS swords like Blackfyre and Orphan-maker.

Ooh la  la. I love this topic! Thanks for the tag @Cridefea. I have to be an adult for a while but I will certainly read through the thread when I get some time.

[OtherFromAnotherMother]

11 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

Hang on, how about shorn hair?   Arya and Cersei both have their hair cut.  Cersei is exposed and Arya is hidden, so this does something, too, right?

There is another important woman who loses their hair... Daenerys! Granted, it wasn't cut like Arya and Cersei but still...

So...

Cersei: Bald from exposure.

Arya: Bald for hiding.

Daenerys: Bald from transformation.

 

[OtherFromAnotherMother]

7 hours ago, Sigella said:

No, don't discount brown! We have Brown Ben Plum, the Mudd dude in the GC plus Nettles and Sheepstealer. They all play pretty interesting roles, being Dragon-favorites and treacherous both.

Continuing with the brown being treacherous theme... Ser Bennis of the Brown Shield was treacherous as well. Stole from Ser Osgrey then took off. Just a brown jerk of a dude in general...

[OtherFromAnotherMother]

Also interesting is the number of diseases with colors in the name.

Greyscale, Green Fever, Bronze Pate, Red Death, Brownleg, and Yellowgum.

Red Death is particularly interesting. From TWOIAF: 

Quote

The infamy of Gogossos outlived even the Doom. During the Century of Blood, this dark city waxed rich and powerful. Some called her the Tenth Free City, but her wealth was built on slaves and sorcery. Her slave markets became as notorious as those of the old Ghiscari cities on Slaver's Bay. Seven-and-seventy years after the Doom of Valyria, however, it is said their stink reached even the nostrils of the gods, and a terrible plague emerged from the slave pens of Gogossos. The Red Death swept across the Isle of Tears, then the rest of the Basilisk Isles. Nine men of every ten died screaming, bleeding copiously from every orifice, their skin shredding like wet parchment

Gogossos was used by the Valyrians as a place to send there prisoners.

Quote

The dragonlords sent their worst criminals to the Isle of Tears to live out their lives in hard labor. In the dungeons of Gogossos, torturers devised new torments. In the flesh pits, blood sorcery of the darkest sort was practiced, as beasts were mated to slave women to bring forth twisted half-human children.

Blood magic was used on them. Eventually the Red Death breaks out. A lot of red surrounding this.

[hiemal]

30 minutes ago, OtherFromAnotherMother said:

There is another important woman who loses their hair... Daenerys! Granted, it wasn't cut like Arya and Cersei but still...

So...

Cersei: Bald from exposure.

Arya: Bald for hiding.

Daenerys: Bald from transformation.

 

I think all three are transformative moments, symbolic rebirths but Dany's does stand out as the only one done by fire. Arya's was done by a black brother and Cerseir's by a grey sister?

Sideways from this, on men losing their hair:

Shagga, son of Dolf, and his constant threat to cut off so-and-so's manhood and feed it to goats- is he always talking about beards and what are we to make of this tonsorial castration?