The Sunland Lord

Why Varys didn't stop the assassination of Daenerys in Season 1?

52 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

A thing I noticed watching the tv show and it bugs me. Maybe I'm missing something so I would happily stand corrected.

In Season 1, after Robert orders the assassination of Daenerys Targaryen, only Eddard Stark as the Hand of the King opposes this idea. Rest of the council, including Varys, amens the order, and does absolutely nothing to stop it. Understandable, since he knows better than openly dissagree with this and it's not his style.

Next, what is stranger, Varys is known to be a man that has a net of people installed everywhere, but also does nothing to stop the very poisoning of Danenerys. Jorah does it instead right after receiving a royal pardon from Varys' bird. From what we saw, Jorah wasn't warned about the hit order, from both the little bird and the letter content. Or was there something else I didn't see? 

Most important, after he saves Tyrion, while in Illyrio's palace, tells the former about him and Illyrio cooperating to restore the Targaryen dinasty, after fathoming the fact Robert Baratheon was a disastrous King. Very specific words. Or, is he lying and knows Tyrion will tell this to Daenerys at some point? Wouldn't buy this. 

He took a very concrete action in order to save Tyrion. I didn't see it in the case of the young Targ girl.

So are we as viewers expected to believe Varys knew Jorah would do the math after the pardon there's an ongoing assassination process against Daenerys? This is a very long shot and if that's the case, I don't buy this either. Especially since it was a matter of seconds between Jorah received the pardon and the murder attempt on Daenerys.

 

 

Edited by The Sunland Lord

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I have the same frustrations and confusion over this.  Sadly I've learned to accept that we will never get a reasonable explanation for this.  Maybe they thought they were still going to do the Aegon plot back in S1.

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Most people here think that Varys is just a Targaryen loyalist, which I respect since they have read 5 books and I have not.

However from the tv-show I have the impression that he is not. I remember a discussion he had when someone asked him "who do you serve?" and answered "the realm, someone has to care for the realm".

I believe Varys is one of those people that he doesn't care who rules the realm, as long as it's for the benefit for the realm. He started to want Daenerys for the throne, not just because she is a Targaryen but because she is the best option. Because she has claim over it and she would be a good queen. If Daenerys sits on the throne, then many wars involving houses and lords who want to be kings will stop.

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, Lucius Lovejoy said:

I have the same frustrations and confusion over this.  Sadly I've learned to accept that we will never get a reasonable explanation for this.  Maybe they thought they were still going to do the Aegon plot back in S1.

If they intended to do what you're saying, they didn't do anything to cover this hole. I tried do find an explanation, but like you wrote, there just isn't one, and it gets more confusing when you see through Varys' actions and words in S1 and beginning of S5.

 

21 minutes ago, Sanrast said:

Most people here think that Varys is just a Targaryen loyalist, which I respect since they have read 5 books and I have not.

However from the tv-show I have the impression that he is not. I remember a discussion he had when someone asked him "who do you serve?" and answered "the realm, someone has to care for the realm".

I believe Varys is one of those people that he doesn't care who rules the realm, as long as it's for the benefit for the realm. He started to want Daenerys for the throne, not just because she is a Targaryen but because she is the best option. Because she has claim over it and she would be a good queen. If Daenerys sits on the throne, then many wars involving houses and lords who want to be kings will stop.

Books are one topic, show is another.

It's not about Varys being either a Targaryen loyalist or just cares for the good of the realm. It's about a hole in the story that you can notice if you watch carefully S1, after Robert ordered assassination of Daenerys, then the very attempt on her when the wine merchant tries to poison her and Jorah saves her. Varys does nothing the viewer can see all this time, but claims he worked with Illyrio to restore the Targ dynasty at the beginning of S5. 

Edited by The Sunland Lord

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I put it down to the show runners not being able to keep Varys' motivations consistent. Varys adversely affects Dany late in season #4 even, after on Tywin's orders he gets his little birds to deliver Jorah's royal pardon into Mereen, which results in Dany banishing her #1 advisor.

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It is actually a pretty simple answer to that question, if you consider the production of GoT. The first season was written and shot before Dance came out. At that point D&D did not knew what will happen in the books to come, including Varys arch. In the first season they stayed pretty close to the source material, so they included the assasination attempt on Daenerys. Of course later Dance came out, where it is revealed that Varys supported Aegon all the time. But since D&D decided to cut off Aegon, this path was done. Daenerys show arch will include partly the arch of Aegon, hence Varys has to suddenly suport her in the show. In hindsight, in the light of those reveals and decisions, it does not make any sense that Varys was part of the assasination attempt. And this plothole can not really be healed. The showrunners tried that in season 5 in the conversation between Tyrion and Daenerys. It did not really work  (for me). But it was an inevitable plothole once they stayed loyal to book one and excluded Aegon later. If Dance had been out back then, this would have not happened. 

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3 hours ago, CaptainTheo said:

I put it down to the show runners not being able to keep Varys' motivations consistent. Varys adversely affects Dany late in season #4 even, after on Tywin's orders he gets his little birds to deliver Jorah's royal pardon into Mereen, which results in Dany banishing her #1 advisor.

A good note.

Or, he might wanted Jorah dead, in order to bury the truth that he sent pardon letter to him years ago without warning him about the assassination attempt on his Queen. So mistery solved. :cheers:

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How did jorah know that the wine was poisoned? In the books jorah explains it when she exiles him and I think they should have done the same in the show. But here is the thing if vary's really wanted dany dead she would be dead. Yet somehow her and her brother managed to avoid assasins by themselves? I think vary's told jorah what to watch for

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12 hours ago, The Sunland Lord said:

A thing I noticed watching the tv show and it bugs me. Maybe I'm missing something so I would happily stand corrected.

In Season 1, after Robert orders the assassination of Daenerys Targaryen, only Eddard Stark as the Hand of the King opposes this idea. Rest of the council, including Varys, amens the order, and does absolutely nothing to stop it. Understandable, since he knows better than openly dissagree with this and it's not his style.

Next, what is stranger, Varys is known to be a man that has a net of people installed everywhere, but also does nothing to stop the very poisoning of Danenerys. Jorah does it instead right after receiving a royal pardon from Varys' bird. From what we saw, Jorah wasn't warned about the hit order, from both the little bird and the letter content. Or was there something else I didn't see? 

Most important, after he saves Tyrion, while in Illyrio's palace, tells the former about him and Illyrio cooperating to restore the Targaryen dinasty, after fathoming the fact Robert Baratheon was a disastrous King. Very specific words. Or, is he lying and knows Tyrion will tell this to Daenerys at some point? Wouldn't buy this. 

He took a very concrete action in order to save Tyrion. I didn't see it in the case of the young Targ girl.

So are we as viewers expected to believe Varys knew Jorah would do the math after the pardon there's an ongoing assassination process against Daenerys? This is a very long shot and if that's the case, I don't buy this either. Especially since it was a matter of seconds between Jorah received the pardon and the murder attempt on Daenerys.

 

 

I think they can square this circle with the fact that Viserys is still alive when the assassination plot is put into action. So at this point, Varys and Illyrio might not consider Dany to be their primary means of restoring the Targ dynasty -- Viserys is. After all, he is the one who will supposedly get a Dothraki army in exchange for Dany's maidenhead, and use that to conquer Westeros. And indeed, they might have counted on Drogo reacting exactly the way he did whether the attempt on Dany was successful or not -- overcoming his fear of the poisoned water and accelerating his desire to subdue the 7K.

Even when Vis dies, they still might not consider Dany a worthy queen. But once word gets back that she has managed to hatch living dragons, well, now it's time for a new plan.

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, John Suburbs said:

I think they can square this circle with the fact that Viserys is still alive when the assassination plot is put into action. So at this point, Varys and Illyrio might not consider Dany to be their primary means of restoring the Targ dynasty -- Viserys is. After all, he is the one who will supposedly get a Dothraki army in exchange for Dany's maidenhead, and use that to conquer Westeros. And indeed, they might have counted on Drogo reacting exactly the way he did whether the attempt on Dany was successful or not -- overcoming his fear of the poisoned water and accelerating his desire to subdue the 7K.

Even when Vis dies, they still might not consider Dany a worthy queen. But once word gets back that she has managed to hatch living dragons, well, now it's time for a new plan.

Viserys is worth nothing to Dothraki without Daenerys alive, and Varys & Illyrio know this. I think Drogo wouldn't care whether Viserys is the rightful King of foreign seven kingdoms or not. If his sister was dead, the bargain wouldn't have been fulfilled. 

However, Viserys is dead when the pardon letter arrives, but Varys does nothing to stop his sister getting killed.

 

Edited by The Sunland Lord

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1 hour ago, snow is the man said:

How did jorah know that the wine was poisoned? In the books jorah explains it when she exiles him and I think they should have done the same in the show. But here is the thing if vary's really wanted dany dead she would be dead. Yet somehow her and her brother managed to avoid assasins by themselves? I think vary's told jorah what to watch for

Varys probably didn't want her dead, but did nothing to stop her being killed also. There's no prove he gave Jorah a hint what's going on.

I think this scene was right after Robert had a change of heart and called it off, but word still hasn't reach the men hired to do it. 

 

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3 hours ago, The Sunland Lord said:

Varys probably didn't want her dead, but did nothing to stop her being killed also. There's no prove he gave Jorah a hint what's going on.

I think this scene was right after Robert had a change of heart and called it off, but word still hasn't reach the men hired to do it. 

 

So sir jorah just happened to know that the wine that guy was selling was poisoned?

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17 minutes ago, snow is the man said:

So sir jorah just happened to know that the wine that guy was selling was poisoned?

We don't know it for sure. I think he realized after he got the pardon letter, but wasn't warned in any way. He just put two and two together when he got the whole picture.

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13 hours ago, Sanrast said:

Most people here think that Varys is just a Targaryen loyalist, which I respect since they have read 5 books and I have not.

However from the tv-show I have the impression that he is not. I remember a discussion he had when someone asked him "who do you serve?" and answered "the realm, someone has to care for the realm".

I believe Varys is one of those people that he doesn't care who rules the realm, as long as it's for the benefit for the realm. He started to want Daenerys for the throne, not just because she is a Targaryen but because she is the best option. Because she has claim over it and she would be a good queen. If Daenerys sits on the throne, then many wars involving houses and lords who want to be kings will stop.

This is the impression I get too. I don't think Varys actions in the show seem too difficult to understand. It feels as if he, above many, are always looking at the bigger picture. The future stability of the realm is the most important thing to him and his position changes according to events and circumstances.

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17 hours ago, The Sunland Lord said:

Viserys is worth nothing to Dothraki without Daenerys alive, and Varys & Illyrio know this. I think Drogo wouldn't care whether Viserys is the rightful King of foreign seven kingdoms or not. If his sister was dead, the bargain wouldn't have been fulfilled. 

However, Viserys is dead when the pardon letter arrives, but Varys does nothing to stop his sister getting killed.

 

I'm not so sure. Vis lived up to his part of the bargain. It's not his fault that Dany died, which could very well have happened in childbirth or by some other cause. The Dothraki are not without honor and Drogo would still own Vis a gift. Plus, there would be the added motivation for Drogo now wanting personal revenge on King Robert regardless of whether Vis inherits the Iron Throne or not.

Yes, Vis was dead by the time the pardon letter arrived, but he was still alive when it was sent, which was when Varys would have had the chance to subvert the plot.

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2 hours ago, John Suburbs said:

I'm not so sure. Vis lived up to his part of the bargain. It's not his fault that Dany died, which could very well have happened in childbirth or by some other cause. The Dothraki are not without honor and Drogo would still own Vis a gift. Plus, there would be the added motivation for Drogo now wanting personal revenge on King Robert regardless of whether Vis inherits the Iron Throne or not.

Yes, Vis was dead by the time the pardon letter arrived, but he was still alive when it was sent, which was when Varys would have had the chance to subvert the plot.

Would have the chance, but he didn't do it, from what we saw. And what you see is what you get, my friend John Suburbs. 

But yes, I appreciate your analysis-Targ dinasty is open for guessing names. 

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16 hours ago, The Sunland Lord said:

We don't know it for sure. I think he realized after he got the pardon letter, but wasn't warned in any way. He just put two and two together when he got the whole picture.

My theory is that vary's gave him a heads up. It is said in the books and I thought it was implied in the show that vary's didn't want dany to die.

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On Invalid Date at 6:53 PM, The Sunland Lord said:

Would have the chance, but he didn't do it, from what we saw. And what you see is what you get, my friend John Suburbs. 

But yes, I appreciate your analysis-Targ dinasty is open for guessing names. 

I'm not sure I understand you. What I meant was, Varys would have had the chance to stop the Dany assassination plot if he had known that Viserys was dead. But that news hadn't reached King's Landing yet, so he let the plot to kill Dany move forward because Viserys was the Targaryen they were planning to put on the throne, not Dany.

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1 hour ago, John Suburbs said:

I'm not sure I understand you. What I meant was, Varys would have had the chance to stop the Dany assassination plot if he had known that Viserys was dead. But that news hadn't reached King's Landing yet, so he let the plot to kill Dany move forward because Viserys was the Targaryen they were planning to put on the throne, not Dany.

Presumably didn't know, but I don't think it was revealed to the viewers. I even suppose he knew, since he finds things out before others do. But that's speculative and I won't consider a fact something that wasn't confirmed.

But, either he knew or not, he knows very well that if they kill Daenerys, Targ's cause is weakened and you have only Viserys with the Dothrakis. I doubt the latter would feel indebted to him for anything, let alone sailing to King's Landing and make him a King. They didn't care for their late Khal's children, women, let alone some foreign refugee who's sister was once khaleesi and died. 

 

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It's a plot hole.  That is all.

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