Targaryen Restoration

The younger, more beautiful queen . . .

115 posts in this topic

On 28/08/2017 at 1:50 AM, Targaryen Restoration said:

The younger, more beautiful queen is Daenerys Targaryen.  The one who will take everything from Cersei.  I can't wait to see this happen. 

  1. My questions is, when will this happen?  Before the final battle with the Night's King?  After the battle with the Night's King?  I am leaning towards AFTER the final battle with the Night's King and Daenerys is ready to set her plans in motion to break the wheel. 
  2. Daenerys will become Queen of Westeros.  And even though I don't like Jon, I believe he will rule beside her.  Similar to Allysanne and Jaeherys did two hundred years ago.  I don't see any other candidates, at least not on the show.
  3. More dragon eggs will be found or laid.  The dragons are needed to balance out the White Walkers. 

I wonder if Daenerys might be too obvious of an answer, as others have said here. Still, I agree that she is the most likely option if we presume that Maggy meant another queen when she said: "'til comes another younger, more beautiful to cast you down and take all you hold dear." She never specified a queen, after all, merely implied due to Cersei's question. Otherwise, it could refer to any attractive character (not necessarily a queen), which could be Sansa or Arya (who might grow into an attractive woman in time), or it could even refer to a different kind of beauty, such as inner beauty. I know some people have suggested Brienne as a possibility, who can be said to be the poster girl for "beauty is on the inside" considering she's supposed to be considered ugly by Westerosi standards. Heck, it could even refer to a beautiful male if we take away the queen aspect.

Ultimately, though, it probably does refer to Daenerys. I do not think she will directly cast Cersei down, though. It'll all be a byproduct of Cersei's own poor life choices. I seriously don't think that Cersei is "end game" by any means. The Night King battle will encompass pretty much everyone's attention to the point where Cersei will likely just see everything even resembling support melt away from her and towards Jon and Daenerys's side. I suspect that even the Golden Company will switch sides once they realise what is coming for them. The goal is that Cersei will be left with nothing in the end.

I personally don't think Daenerys will ever be Queen of Westeros nor will Jon be King. I don't see that being a genuine end for any character since I question whether a unified Westeros will be possible or, if it is, whether it will go on as it did before. The Others will likely change everything and society will have to rebuild after.

As others have said, I doubt there will be any more dragons. I foresee all three of them dying out with the Walkers, rather than there being more. Due to the destructive nature of dragons, being the nuclear bombs to the Walkers' nuclear winter, in order to restore balance I think both need to be neutralised.

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6 hours ago, Faera said:

I wonder if Daenerys might be too obvious of an answer, as others have said here.

Let's be honest, it's only obvious because there's only 1 season left and Dany seems like the most obvious answer at this point.
Back in say, seasons 2-3 it wouldn't have been nearly as obvious.

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56 minutes ago, MinscS2 said:

Let's be honest, it's only obvious because there's only 1 season left and Dany seems like the most obvious answer at this point.
Back in say, seasons 2-3 it wouldn't have been nearly as obvious.

This is a great point. When your 92% of the way through the story things get a lot more obvious.

They also get more obvious when you spend time in message boards talking about the story with other people who are analyzing it closely. 

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1 hour ago, jcmontea said:

They also get more obvious when you spend time in message boards talking about the story with other people who are analyzing it closely. 

Aye that too. Many things that are considered "predictable" and "obvious" by members on these forums are only seen as such because the story is almost at an end, and because the members themselves are spending a lot of their time analyzing and discussing possible theories, endings, etc. It's not nearly as predictable and/or obvious to the majority of the viewers.

Edited by MinscS2

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Aye. Queen you shall be... until there comes another, younger and more beautiful, to cast you down and take all that you hold dear.

I bet Danaerys will be the younger and more beautiful queen who "comes...and take all that you hold dear".

First at all, Danaerys is a queen. Even currently. She has the power to take away what is left to Cersei -- which is not much anyway. Cersei's children are dead and Jamie walked off. 

However, the prophecy does not tell us that whoever takes it, will be queen afterwards. Probably, Danaerys will die. She can "take all" and still not reach the Iron throne herself. We know the Undying prophecy of dany walking towards the throne and not reaching it.

Maybe the Iron throne will be destroyed, maybe the power of the Iron throne will be taken forever. 

 

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27 minutes ago, Kajjo said:

I bet Danaerys will be the younger and more beautiful queen who "comes...and take all that you hold dear".

First at all, Danaerys is a queen. Even currently. She has the power to take away what is left to Cersei -- which is not much anyway. Cersei's children are dead and Jamie walked off. 

However, the prophecy does not tell us that whoever takes it, will be queen afterwards. Probably, Danaerys will die. She can "take all" and still not reach the Iron throne herself. We know the Undying prophecy of dany walking towards the throne and not reaching it.

Maybe the Iron throne will be destroyed, maybe the power of the Iron throne will be taken forever. 

 

You could be right. But do you think the odds of that went down this year?

I personally think the chances of the scenario went down with cersei making it out of season 7 alive since now they have to take care of the NK first. 

Other than dying in childbirth, its hard to see a scenario at this point where Dany is both the YMBQ and the NK goes down first and Dany dies. 

Wheras before seven seven it seemd that Cersei would go down first making Dany the YMBQ and then she could have easily died fighting the Nk.

the prophecy at the HOTU could have easily already occured sonce Dany had the throne in her graps after the field of fire but decided to head North instead.

Edited by jcmontea

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If Dany became pregnant in S707, then it's safe to assume that she's "safe" for at least another 9 months, and I can't see the war against the AotD nor the war against Cersei taking more than 9 months.

It's also likely that the NK will be dealt with before Cersei, so the once YMBQ-prophecy is fulfilled there are no more enemies for her to fight, meaning that she will either die in childbirth or survive the series. 

the prophecy at the HOTU could have easily already occured sonce Dany had the throne in her graps after the field of fire but decided to head North instead.



Aye, that's how I interpret it as well, especially given that it actually happened this season. The throne was her for the taking but right before claiming it she decided against it and went north instead, just as she did in S707. Nothing in this vision insinuates that she's gonna die.
"But she met her dead husband and baby in the vision, it implies that she's gonna meet them again north of the wall", yes but she also realized that they and that future wasn't real, and moved on, leaving them and the past behind her. 

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13 minutes ago, jcmontea said:

I personally think the chances of the scenario went down with cersei making it out of season 7 alive since now they have to take care of the NK first.

Cersei's Golden Army from Essos will try to hold King's Landing and re-conquer the South. Even if Jamie informs Dany's alliance of Cersei's cheating, the battle in the North will be more urgent. I don't think that Cersei will care for the NK and the great battle -- maybe until it is too late, or maybe Dany's allaince manages to win the battle without Cersei's contribution just to learn that down in the South new problems arise.

19 minutes ago, jcmontea said:

the prophecy at the HOTU could have easily already occured sonce Dany had the throne in her graps after the field of fire but decided to head North instead.

That's an interesting theory. Not bad. However, the throne was covered in ice and snow in the Undying prophecy. And the winter is just coming for King's Landing... looks like it just turning into the right scenario...

Concerning Cersei's death... if we take prophecies seriously here, she probably will die by Jamie choking her to death. Even when pregnant. Or by Tyrion. A fourth child is not prophecied, so Cersei will die before giving birth, probably not too late into the pregnancy. Till now only Tyrion and Jamie know about the pregnancy. It is not visible yet.

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13 minutes ago, MinscS2 said:

If Dany became pregnant in S707, then it's safe to assume that she's "safe" for at least another 9 months, and I can't see the war against the AotD nor the war against Cersei taking more than 9 months.

I agree. Everything else would be very weird indeed.

13 minutes ago, MinscS2 said:

It's also likely that the NK will be dealt with before Cersei

Yes, it is at least probably. That would leave Sansa to be the YMBQ. Not impossible, but not really "breaking the wheel", though?

Dany can die for many reasons even after the great battle.

Edited by Kajjo

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4 minutes ago, Kajjo said:

Yes, it is at least probably. That would leave Sansa to be the YMBQ. Not impossible, but not really "breaking the wheel", though?

Why so? Dany would still presumably be alive and kicking at that point.
I can't really see how Sansa becomes the YMBQ, she doesn't have the power to dethrone Cersei. Even if Jon dies, her northern army will be small, and even if Dany dies, I can't see a scenario where the Dothraki, Unsullied and Dragons switch their allegiance to Sansa.

4 minutes ago, Kajjo said:

Dany can die for many reasons even after the great battle.

While this is true, I don't expect this to happen. I mean sure Dany can slip on ice and break her neck but...really? :P

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9 minutes ago, MinscS2 said:

Why so? Dany would still presumably be alive and kicking at that point.

Well, as I stated in my first post in this thread: My personal bet is on Dany.

However, she wants to "break the wheel" and while I see her "taking all dear" away, I cannot really see her sitting on the Iron throne "happily thereafter". Maybe the throne will be destroyed?

13 minutes ago, MinscS2 said:

she doesn't have the power to dethrone Cersei

Cersei will die. She will not have a fourth child. Maybe Jamie or Tyrion as "little brother"? Or whatever.

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1 minute ago, Kajjo said:

However, she wants to "break the wheel" and while I see her "taking all dear" away, I cannot really see her sitting on the Iron throne "happily thereafter". Maybe the throne will be destroyed?

No, I'd say it's very likely that the (actual) Ironthrone get's destroyed in S8, probably by Cersei. I can see Dany (and Jon) ruling in the end, but I can't see them sitting on the Ironthrone in the Red Keep together (especially given how cramped it would be with the both of them on a single throne.) 

As for breaking the wheel, Dany has already broken several "wheels"; The dothraki's way of life (pillaging, looting, enslaving) and the slave-economy of Slaver's Bay. I'm not sure how she will break the wheel in Westeros (even though several major houses have gone extinct or are about to), perhaps she won't. Can't wait for S8. :)

1 minute ago, Kajjo said:

Cersei will die. She will not have a fourth child. Maybe Jamie or Tyrion as "little brother"? Or whatever.

Yeah Cersei will most likely die, but if she looses all of her power and dies on her own accord, how did the YMBQ take everything she held dear? The entire YMBQ-prophecy would become pointless. :P

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Only way I can see right now, which doesn’t mean its the only way this could go down, is if Dany actually can’t have kids. She then tells Jon when she finds out he is a Targaryen that they can’t be together because their line must continue. So Jon takes the throne as Aegon Targaryen and takes Sansa as his bride and we end up with the Dragon and Wolf marriage from left field with the support of Daenerys who sees it as the best way to ensure the continuation of House Targaryen. Thus, Sansa in the end becomes the YMBQ. 

Aside from the fact that Jonsa is a stupid ending to a story that has been structured around the Dany/ Jon parrallel, I don’t see this happening because Dany is clearly capable of having kids again at the end of ADWD so Targ baby is coming. 

30 minutes ago, Kajjo said:

Cersei's Golden Army from Essos will try to hold King's Landing and re-conquer the South. Even if Jamie informs Dany's alliance of Cersei's cheating, the battle in the North will be more urgent. I don't think that Cersei will care for the NK and the great battle -- maybe until it is too late, or maybe Dany's allaince manages to win the battle without Cersei's contribution just to learn that down in the South new problems arise.

That's an interesting theory. Not bad. However, the throne was covered in ice and snow in the Undying prophecy. And the winter is just coming for King's Landing... looks like it just turning into the right scenario...

Concerning Cersei's death... if we take prophecies seriously here, she probably will die by Jamie choking her to death. Even when pregnant. Or by Tyrion. A fourth child is not prophecied, so Cersei will die before giving birth, probably not too late into the pregnancy. Till now only Tyrion and Jamie know about the pregnancy. It is not visible yet.

That is my point though. Cersei being defeated after the NK makes it more likely that Dany lives if she is also the YMBQ. This season increased the probability ot Cersei living past the NK dramatically. 

Its possible that your interpretation of the vision is right. I don’t think Snow being there necesarily negates the other view sinces its a vision. Could means lots of things not all of them linearly. Could just be that the snow and destruction means that the iron throne and the battle for power it represents is leading to destruction and that Dany by steping away from the throne is going to help save the kingdom because had she reached out for it in the moment she had the chance the world wild have been doomed. Who knows ultimatley we won’t know until the series ends.

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I don't think Daenerys is too obvious. It just seems that way because we've had so much time to analyze. A good plot twist can't be so un-obvious that it makes no sense. Besides, the fact that we're pretty sure it's Daenerys but Cersei barely knows Dany exists and focuses on the wrong targets is what creates dramatic irony; in the books, at least.

Edited by Noneofyourbusiness

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Dany is the younger, more beautiful queen. 
To be honest, we are running out of "younger, more beautiful queen" material on the show. I guess you could say Sansa but (if memory serves) didn't Cersei kinda dislike Sansa a bit because she thought Sansa could be the more beautiful/younger queen. I can't remember if that was a show or book thing. Regardless, it would be weird if she thought it was Sansa, then thought it was Margaery, and it was really Sansa all along.

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