princess brittany

jon and dragon

30 posts in this topic

11 hours ago, princess brittany said:

when do you think jon will ride a dragon?

My guess would be this comes early. For the living to have any shot they are going to realize priority number 1 has to be to take down Viserion and establish air superiority. That means Rhagel and Drogon go into battle and that would be as good a time as any for Jon to become a dragonrider. 

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Never. Like Bran is the only skinchanger in the Starks. Dany should be the only dragon rider. Plus it would just add to the ridiculousness that Jon is for some reason meant to represent ice and House Stark when he's a trueborn Targaryen and a dragonrider. If he were the only one left, fine but there are 2 or 3 actual Starks about.

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5 hours ago, AryaNymeriaVisenya said:

Never. Like Bran is the only skinchanger in the Starks. Dany should be the only dragon rider.

I think that Dany's main purpose (both in GOT and ASOIAF) was to bring dragon to Jon (even though she herself is unaware of it). His real name is Aegon, so he will be a dragon rider, as was his ancestor Aegon I.

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Plus it would just add to the ridiculousness that Jon is for some reason meant to represent ice and House Stark when he's a trueborn Targaryen and a dragonrider.

He's both Targaryen and Stark, the Dragon and the Wolf, he is Ice and Fire. Not Jon + Dany = Ice + Fire.

Edited by Megorova

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52 minutes ago, Megorova said:

I think that Dany's main purpose (both in GOT and ASOIAF) was to bring dragon to Jon (even though she herself is unaware of it). His real name is Aegon, so he will be a dragon rider, as was his ancestor Aegon I.

He's both Targaryen and Stark, the Dragon and the Wolf, he is Ice and Fire. Not Jon + Dany = Ice + Fire.

He is a shitty Targaryen. Can be burnt and depended on his aunt to give him a dragon

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13 minutes ago, jcmontea said:

He is a shitty Targaryen. Can be burnt and depended on his aunt to give him a dragon

What ?

Being a Targaryen doesn't equal being fire proof. It was established this season that Drogon responded to him. He will likely ride Rhaegal. Its not like there are dragons flying about left right and centre for him to get his own, so saying he depended on Dany to give him a Dragon is a bit ridiculous.   

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4 minutes ago, princess_snow said:

What ?

Being a Targaryen doesn't equal being fire proof. It was established this season that Drogon responded to him. He will likely ride Rhaegal. Its not like there are dragons flying about left right and centre for him to get his own, so saying he depended on Dany to give him a Dragon is a bit ridiculous.   

How many fires did he walk into and eggs did he hatch? 

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1 hour ago, jcmontea said:

How many fires did he walk into and eggs did he hatch? 

What does this have to do with anything ?

Its part of the evolution of the story. Dany and Jon meeting up, Jon realizing at some point his is half Targ. Its only natural he would ride a Dragon in the War. Just because he isnt the Father of Dragons or walk into fire and survive doesnt mean he is not entitled to sit a Dragon.   

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24 minutes ago, princess_snow said:

What does this have to do with anything ?

Its part of the evolution of the story. Dany and Jon meeting up, Jon realizing at some point his is half Targ. Its only natural he would ride a Dragon in the War. Just because he isnt the Father of Dragons or walk into fire and survive doesnt mean he is not entitled to sit a Dragon.   

I am just trolling the idea that Jon by himself represents Ice and Fire despite the fact that he has shown no actual fire magic ability. 

I think that can certainly refer to him. I just don't that that he is the only meaning of A Song of Ice and Fire.

Edited by jcmontea

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6 minutes ago, jcmontea said:

I am just trolling the idea that Jon by himself represents Ice and Fire despite the fact that he has shown no actual fire magic ability. 

I think that can certainly refer to him. I just don't that that he is the only meaning of A Song of Ice and Fire.

Gotcha. :thumbsup:

I mean I do think he is the song of Ice and Fire. I also think it could refer to R + L. Also Dany and Jon .....

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8 minutes ago, princess_snow said:

Gotcha. :thumbsup:

I mean I do think he is the song of Ice and Fire. I also think it could refer to R + L. Also Dany and Jon .....

Yea. My own view but could totally be wrong is that its all those things plus dragons and others, fire magic and northern magic etc. that it does not just have one meaning. Feels almost reductive to limit it to just one character although clearly one of the two most if not the most inportant character. 

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5 minutes ago, jcmontea said:

Yea. My own view but could totally be wrong is that its all those things plus dragons and others, fire magic and northern magic etc. that it does not just have one meaning. Feels almost reductive to limit it to just one character although clearly one of the two most if not the most inportant character. 

:agree:

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I just really don't like Jon Snow... He's kind of a fantasy hero played straight-- courageous, honest, kind, with plot armor thick enough the Night King's spear arm wouldn't pierce it. Giving him a dragon just feels cheap and unearned. Being a Targ =/= dragon rider. Its about having a ferocity Dany clearly possesses that Jon, as the fantasy stereotype, obviously lacks.

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I don't believe that Jon is Ice and Fire either.
Being a Targaryen doesn't make you Fire, and being a Stark doesn't make you Ice. There's more to it than a family name.
It's the environment, persona and actions of Jon that makes him Ice, just as the environment, persona and actions of Dany makes her Fire.
I interpret the "Song of Ice and Fire" as them coming together to save the world. 
But then I also interpret the whole gender-ambiguity of the Prince/Princess that was promised as referring to the both of them (or their child.)
 

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7 hours ago, jcmontea said:

He is a shitty Targaryen. Can be burnt and depended on his aunt to give him a dragon

Jon is immune to Ice, not Fire.  He will ride an Ice Dragon, which will hatch from the egg in the crypts under Winterfell, not ride one of Dany's Fire Dragons. Viserion is a Wight Dragon, not an Ice Dragon. Rhaegal will be ridden by Tyrion. After the Night's King is defeated, the Dance of the Dragons between Ice and Fire will commence.

Or maybe not.

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9 hours ago, jcmontea said:

He is a shitty Targaryen. Can be burnt and depended on his aunt to give him a dragon

That's pretty much all Targaryens, except for Dany, maybe the family founders, and the dragonseeds from the Dance.

And the best dragonseeds weren't even Targaryens. Which they really ought to learn from. I'd bet Timett Son of Timett knows how to tame a dragon, having heard Nettles' stories from his grandfather or something. And if he doesn't know, he'll try anyway, and at least it'll be more entertaining to watch than poor sad Quentyn.

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4 hours ago, MinscS2 said:

I don't believe that Jon is Ice and Fire either.
Being a Targaryen doesn't make you Fire, and being a Stark doesn't make you Ice. There's more to it than a family name.
It's the environment, persona and actions of Jon that makes him Ice, just as the environment, persona and actions of Dany makes her Fire.
I interpret the "Song of Ice and Fire" as them coming together to save the world. 
But then I also interpret the whole gender-ambiguity of the Prince/Princess that was promised as referring to the both of them (or their child.)
 

This is negated in the book with the pact of Ice and Fire which was between house Stark and House Targaryen. That is clearly what they are meant to represent and with the original plan it would have been more cut and dry, Jon the trueborn Targ and Arya, the Stark. But GRRM lost that and the whole central aspect got muddled. Its increasingly insulting in the show as its revealed bit by bit that Jon is a trueborn Targ that he takes precedence in in the North over a trueborn Stark.

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2 hours ago, AryaNymeriaVisenya said:

This is negated in the book with the pact of Ice and Fire which was between house Stark and House Targaryen. That is clearly what they are meant to represent and with the original plan it would have been more cut and dry, Jon the trueborn Targ and Arya, the Stark. But GRRM lost that and the whole central aspect got muddled. Its increasingly insulting in the show as its revealed bit by bit that Jon is a trueborn Targ that he takes precedence in in the North over a trueborn Stark.

 I think that is the point. Being trueborn does not matter. Jon is a Stark. He is the person that best represents the values of Ned Stark and carries forth his legacy not because he is his son much less a true born son but because he made a choice to embrace his lessons and let them guide him in life. Him recognizing that that he is not Ned's son won't change that I don't think. If it does then thematically it won't be that satisfying. 

Same thing with Daenerys. She was always true born, but as the third born daughter nothing was really expected of her other than to marry Rhaegar's sons potentially. Yet she represents the rebirth of that family and could go down as the greatest Targaryen of them all.

I think part of their story is supposed to show that being the first born true born doesn't matter despite all the value the society places on that. 

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Probably soon.  They need to burn Viserion to save the people.  Jon also needs to make that ultimate sacrifice soon.  I suspect it will happen before WF is attacked.  They will ride out on information from Tormun and Beric about Viserion, and decide they need to take him out.  By that time he'll know his name is Eggon.

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