falcotron

How does "magic blood" work?

137 posts in this topic

I think its to do with conquering, the only powerful blood sacrifice we've seen in the books is when Dany Burns Khal Drogo and hatches the dragons and I don't see why his blood would be powerful unless it's because he had "conquered" his own Khalasar.

I actually think that the Dothraki and the Wildlings aversion to kneeling is foreshadowing the fact that the Royal Blood line (Targaryens) wasn't complete until they had mixed with the Starks. Torrhen Stark was the only person who knelt to Aegon the Conqueror which avoided any bloodshed of the North, so i think that prevented Aegon for ever having full "kingship" over all the peopler of Westeros. I mean that in the sense that whatever old magical rules there are about conquering another people that gives you kings blood, kneeling isn't one of them. But all other houses in Westeros during the Conquest either fought Aegon and lost or eventually married into the royal family.

in AFFC when Brienne is looking for Sansa theres a point where someone gives her the history of the area shes in, and they say that at some point within a few short years the women had conquered where the men couldn't. Basically that they got married and had babies instead of fighting. So Jon being a mix of Stark and Targaryen makes him the mostly potent kings blood i would say. But is he the hero or is he Nissa Nissa?

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10 hours ago, falcotron said:

Three out of three GRRM-approved comic book and illustrated renditions of her.

Are you now assuming some crackpot theory like… Aerys + Ashara = Dany?… as proven fact or something?

No, I don't. I carefully say "said to be 10000 years ago", and just "millennia' when there are legitimate disputes on how many millennia.

Also, none of my conclusions are based on 8000 years. In fact, I don't even mention 8000 years, even indirectly via the Long Night, do I don't know why you think some tinfoil about the Long Night being only 3000 years ago would make any difference. (Especially since the original purpose of that tinfoil was to move the Long Night after the founding of Valyria 5000 years ago.)

But, more importantly, you can change any of my numbers that you like to 3000 for any reason you dream up, and it makes no significant difference. 3000 years is still way, way, way, way, way more than enough time for 40 intermarrying families to concentrate specific visible traits.

But the Daynes being human already explains that just as well. Again, we know that purple eyes appear rarely among all humans in Planetos.

Plus, again, we don't actually have any evidence that any Daynes ever had purple eyes besides Ashara and Gerold in the first place, much less evidence that they all carry a recessive trait for it.

And if by "purple hair" you mean silver hair, we don't have any evidence that any Dayne ever had that besides Gerold, and his striped black-and-silver seems like a pretty unique mutation—if it's not dyed (not that a guy who says "Men call me Darkstar, and I am of the night" would ever dye his hair like Dave Vanian, right?)—rather than classically Valyrian.

How is that playing devil's advocate? It's just repeating what I already said: the Targaryens might have lost their unique features without pervasive incest, but they happen to have been practicing pervasive incest for other reasons.

Except that they aren't. The two houses that carry those traits are Targaryen and Velaryon. Again, no evidence that Daynes pop up purple eyes any more often than any other family in the world, and no reason to believe Ashara and Gerold don't just have a Velaryon grandmother or something in that family tree that we haven't seen any of.

And from here on out, you just go off onto tangents based on other crackpots, some of which even blatantly contradict each other—you can't assume Ned+Ashara=Dany and Rhaegar+Ashara=Dany at the same time—and none of which are relevant to what we're talking about.

Lmao.  I just simply was trying to explain the rough ideas about how her genetics might play into it. Cause you seem massively confused. So yes, in doing so i can fathom any scenario and it's possible implications to her hatching the eggs. Of which ive already said i dont think mattered towards her hatching the eggs. Again, just explaining some of the ideas behind it to help you maybe flush out what you think is happening. As obviously you still have no real theory put together of your own. That or if you do, ive yet to see any meaningful ideas. 

When going in circles doing the same thing to no avail, they have a name for this. 

And oh.. ok, the comic books. Gotcha :)

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10 hours ago, falcotron said:

Why is this worth pointing out? How is it relevant to anything else in the thread?

I forget you dont link anything in the books lol sorry lol 

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4 hours ago, AlaskanSandman said:

I forget you dont link anything in the books lol sorry lol 

No, I'm just not so desperate for links that I just assume everything is linked to everything else in every possible way, and many impossible ways, and even to things that aren't even in the books. GRRM has given us enough connections that we don't need to invent new ones.

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15 hours ago, falcotron said:

But the Daynes being human already explains that just as well. Again, we know that purple eyes appear rarely among all humans in Planetos.

So very true! :lol:

 

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17 hours ago, AlaskanSandman said:

I think it's worth pointing out that the CotF likely created the Others, and live beyond the wall with them. In safety for all we can tell, cause they cant enter their caves. 

Because the caves are warded w/ magic. So yeah, relatively safe but relatively like a prison as well. 

17 hours ago, AlaskanSandman said:

So the tool the CotF created is working. The CotF who's numbers are about gone and losing the fight. Why would they help us? Helping us just guarantees that they die. Why wouldn't they just let the Others wipe us out since we killed them all any ways? And they're about gone so and possibly desperate. 

I still greatly distrust anything to do with the CotF, Bloodraven, and what they want. 

I'm not sure what you mean here...

On a side note, you should check out @40 Thousand Skeletons's threads. We don't see eye to eye on most things, and I still enjoy his threads a lot and the discussions there are always interesting. 

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23 minutes ago, falcotron said:

No, I'm just not so desperate for links that I just assume everything is linked to everything else in every possible way, and many impossible ways, and even to things that aren't even in the books. GRRM has given us enough connections that we don't need to invent new ones.

Well if you dont link something not out right spoken in the books, i dont see how you ever plan to answer how "Blood Magic" works. 

Trying to exclude all magical ideas in a fantasy book seems pretty humorous. Like reading a fantasy wishing it was anything other than a fantasy book. I dont get it. 

Even if it's non-magical though, your gonna have to find the link that proves it. Cause the text hints to nothing but magical. Dragons in and of them self are magical. So idk how you plan to wrestle those facts but it should be an interesting theory when you do get it put together :)

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2 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

Because the caves are warded w/ magic. So yeah, relatively safe but relatively like a prison as well. 

I'm not sure what you mean here...

On a side note, you should check out @40 Thousand Skeletons's threads. We don't see eye to eye on most things, and I still enjoy his threads a lot and the discussions there are always interesting. 

How is that any different than the prison we resided them to? The deep woods, the mountains, the plains and valleys.... we took it all from them. 

Point is that the tool the children created to destroy humans is working, why would they try and help us? 

Cause they're stuck to caves? We did that to them any ways, so again, why help us? They gain nothing. Like we're gonna give anything back to them? How do we know the COTF dont have an off switch to them? Idk, just doesnt add up to me i guess. 

And yes i enjoy talking with him :)

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7 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

On a side note, you should check out @40 Thousand Skeletons's threads. We don't see eye to eye on most things, and I still enjoy his threads a lot and the discussions there are always interesting.

:agree:  Great poster, thought provoking threads.

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14 minutes ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Well if you dont link something not out right spoken in the books, i dont see how you ever plan to answer how "Blood Magic" works. 

Trying to exclude all magical ideas in a fantasy book seems pretty humorous. Like reading a fantasy wishing it was anything other than a fantasy book. I dont get it. 

Even if it's non-magical though, your gonna have to find the link that proves it. Cause the text hints to nothing but magical. Dragons in and of them self are magical. So idk how you plan to wrestle those facts but it should be an interesting theory when you do get it put together :)

Nobody's trying to exclude all magical ideas. Where did you even pull that from? The whole thread is about looking for magical explanations for magic that work better than bean-counting, because bean-counting doesn't feel very magical.

But that doesn't mean everything magical is connected to everything else magical in every possible way anyone can imagine while drunkenly free-associating.

And it certainly doesn't mean that your distrust of the Children because they created the Others has anything to do with explaining what makes Dany's blood magical, which is what you were talking about at the time.

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16 minutes ago, AlaskanSandman said:

How is that any different than the prison we resided them to? The deep woods, the mountains, the plains and valleys.... we took it all from them. 

Point is that the tool the children created to destroy humans is working, why would they try and help us? 

I'm not sold on the idea that the CotF created the WWs. It's possible, but none of the countless theories I've read about it over the years decades managed to convince me. 

16 minutes ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Cause they're stuck to caves? We did that to them any ways, so again, why help us? They gain nothing. Like we're gonna give anything back to them? How do we know the COTF dont have an off switch to them? Idk, just doesnt add up to me i guess. 

It's not about "gain". If the WWs take over the world - and it doesn't matter whether their intentions are good or not - all living beings die. It's that simple, really. So, even if they know they are going to be extinct sooner rather than later, they have no interest in dragging down every creature in the world w/ them. Human beings would think like that, "ah I'm going extinct but I'm gonna take everyone w/ me". Like Bran says...

A Dance with Dragons - Bran III 

She seemed sad when she said it, and that made Bran sad as well. It was only later that he thought, Men would not be sad. Men would be wroth. Men would hate and swear a bloody vengeance. The singers sing sad songs, where men would fight and kill.

The thing is, Martin didn't write the CotF as ultra gorgeous and wise and kind elves, but creepy and dark and BR in that tree - or is the tree in him? - and all that. And because of that a lot of people think like you, that they're evil creepy bad guys. One of us is right, the other is wrong, and one day one of us will say, "told ya!" to the other. :D

 

14 minutes ago, Wizz-The-Smith said:

:agree:  Great poster, thought provoking threads.

Yes, and a great sense of humour too! :)

 

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18 minutes ago, falcotron said:

Nobody's trying to exclude all magical ideas. Where did you even pull that from? The whole thread is about looking for magical explanations for magic that work better than bean-counting, because bean-counting doesn't feel very magical.

But that doesn't mean everything magical is connected to everything else magical in every possible way anyone can imagine while drunkenly free-associating.

And it certainly doesn't mean that your distrust of the Children because they created the Others has anything to do with explaining what makes Dany's blood magical, which is what you were talking about at the time.

Never said every thing magical was connected, in fact in my threads i clearly talk about their being different sides. 

The bit about the children you seemed to miss was the association about them tricking us, and that the prince that was promised, or last hero, or Azor Ahai what evers, is all just a lie from them, to get us to fall into their trap. So yes, we got magical blood from mingling with the Cotf and or other sea creatures possibly, that gave us abilities, but have no real bearing into how it's gonna save us in the end or resolve the story. So magical blood may be a thing, but its ultimately irrelevant. I dont think the dragons are some magical tool that's gonna help win the war against the Others. Doen't change the fact that magical blood may still have been needed to hatch them, and that it comes down to us from the Age of Heroes and mixing. So thus somethings are connected, but no, not everything. 

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13 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

I'm not sold on the idea that the CotF created the WWs. It's possible, but none of the countless theories I've read about it over the years decades managed to convince me. 

It's not about "gain". If the WWs take over the world - and it doesn't matter whether their intentions are good or not - all living beings die. It's that simple, really. So, even if they know they are going to be extinct sooner rather than later, they have no interest in dragging down every creature in the world w/ them. Human beings would think like that, "ah I'm going extinct but I'm gonna take everyone w/ me". Like Bran says...

A Dance with Dragons - Bran III 

She seemed sad when she said it, and that made Bran sad as well. It was only later that he thought, Men would not be sad. Men would be wroth. Men would hate and swear a bloody vengeance. The singers sing sad songs, where men would fight and kill.

The thing is, Martin didn't write the CotF as ultra gorgeous and wise and kind elves, but creepy and dark and BR in that tree - or is the tree in him? - and all that. And because of that a lot of people think like you, that they're evil creepy bad guys. One of us is right, the other is wrong, and one day one of us will say, "told ya!" to the other. :D

 

Yes, and a great sense of humour too! :)

 

Interesting idea. What idea do you have about the Others creation and what they want?

The Children being good or evil i think is not so easy. They're not out right evil or anything, in fact they even have a good reason. Fighting for ones species existence. The means to their power though still revolves around the trees and their thirst for blood. Which requires blood sacrifices, which people can tend to see as evil. Not that it's complete evil in the sense of Morgoth or something, but still not benevolent either. 

Our two societies are destined to clash i think just on the principal of hive mindedness. Most humans i dont think would be comfortable with this idea as it robs us of our individuality. 

Ahhhh, more black and whites hahah i hope it's some where's in the grey area ;)

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3 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

On a side note, you should check out @40 Thousand Skeletons's threads. We don't see eye to eye on most things, and I still enjoy his threads a lot and the discussions there are always interesting. 

 

3 hours ago, AlaskanSandman said:

And yes i enjoy talking with him :)

 

2 hours ago, Wizz-The-Smith said:

:agree:  Great poster, thought provoking threads.

 

2 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

Yes, and a great sense of humour too! :)

Dawwww, I got big warm fuzzy feelings inside! Thanks guys :D 

LOL I think if someone saw eye to eye with me on everything I would question their sanity, as I question my own :P 

In case anyone is curious, my next big post (hopefully within a couple weeks) is def going to be a full in depth explanation on time travel (longer version of the conversation we have been having in my master plan thread), and magic blood is important! Of course you can't time travel without magic blood, don't be ridiculous :P.

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3 hours ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Point is that the tool the children created to destroy humans is working, why would they try and help us? 

 

2 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

I'm not sold on the idea that the CotF created the WWs. It's possible, but none of the countless theories I've read about it over the years decades managed to convince me. 

I was going to respond to you guys and throw in my 2 cents on the origin of weirwoods, but then I just kind of kept typing and typing and it turned into this thread :P 

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6 hours ago, 40 Thousand Skeletons said:

 

I was going to respond to you guys and throw in my 2 cents on the origin of weirwoods, but then I just kind of kept typing and typing and it turned into this thread :P 

Will check it out as soon as the girls are taken care of. Not a good idea to get lost in the thread and leave them hungry, they don't like that! :D

 

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OK I think way back there is a point to the Stark plus dayne+ Valyria or more to the point Dragons.

Dragons aka valyria maybe in fact the real Light bringer.

 

Back before the wall there were starks. This we know. There were also wild dragons. My vague theory was that it took the Warging blood (Gene) of the Starks plus the special blood of the people of the Dawn (Dorne) to create the Valyrians ie people who could tame and ride dragons and use them to defeat the others. Significantly too it may take someone of Dornish (Daynish) blood to become the true mother of dragons. i suspect that Dany is either the child of Ashara Dayne and Ned or Rhaella and Arthur Dayne. Jon is the child or Ned and Ashara.

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