DraculaAD1972 Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 9 minutes ago, TrueMetis said: In the same way North Korea is a democratic republic. 8 minutes ago, Crazy Cat Lady in Training said: What makes you say that? He killed the communists and socialists first. Hitler's criticism of the capitalist democracies was based on socialist values. He saw capitalist democracies as decadent systems that allow great masses of their own people to remain poor and exploited. He just happened to believe only Germans were worthy of full citizenship in his socialist Utopia - with everyone else a vassal, a slave, or dead. But the system he wanted for his own people was socialist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 Oh dear. Not sure if troll or really stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace, Extat Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 I actually have to go with really stupid Most trolls have enough self-conscious not to actually try to claim Hitler was a leftist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueMetis Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 3 minutes ago, Pony Queen Jace said: I actually have to go with really stupid Most trolls have enough self-conscious not to actually try to claim Hitler was a leftist. Could just be a stupid troll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
all swedes are racist Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 cuba has lower infant mortality rates, cost of living, and higher literacy rates than the u.s., just off the top of my head Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
all swedes are racist Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 11 minutes ago, DraculaAD1972 said: Hitler's criticism of the capitalist democracies was based on socialist values. He saw capitalist democracies as decadent systems that allow great masses of their own people to remain poor and exploited. He just happened to believe only Germans were worthy of full citizenship in his socialist Utopia - with everyone else a vassal, a slave, or dead. But the system he wanted for his own people was socialist. this is blatantly false. Germany actually privatized many sectors, including formerly public sectors like transportation. mans even still, simple state ownership is not what defines socialism Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DraculaAD1972 Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 11 minutes ago, Darth Richard II said: Oh dear. Not sure if troll or really stupid. 8 minutes ago, Pony Queen Jace said: I actually have to go with really stupid Most trolls have enough self-conscious not to actually try to claim Hitler was a leftist. 4 minutes ago, TrueMetis said: Could just be a stupid troll. Not an argument, folks. Insults are not an argument. 1 minute ago, dr. thicc president said: cuba has lower infant mortality rates, cost of living, and higher literacy rates than the u.s., just off the top of my head It's a shame that Cubans also have no freedom. And I'm sure cost of living is easily reduced by government-enforced consumer choices. Tell them what to eat, what to wear, what to think, how to live. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace, Extat Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 12 minutes ago, TrueMetis said: Could just be a stupid troll. Well the troll part was a given. 1 minute ago, dr. thicc president said: this is blatantly false. Germany actually privatized many sectors, including formerly public sectors like transportation. mans even still, simple state ownership is not what defines socialism Matter of fact, one of the primary reasons German manufacturing never could have hoped to keep up with Allied efforts is because those cool Tiger tanks and Mk.IV's were being built one at a time in former heavy machinery factories that were systematically co-opted by the Nazis as their industrial capacity gradually ground to nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GAROVORKIN Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 1 hour ago, TrueMetis said: See personally I wouldn't use a guy who destroyed several peoples ability to achieve success and wealth in order to achieve his own wealth and success as an example of "capitalism [rewarding] success and [punishing] failure." Capitalism is neither as good as you are positing, nor can the actual good done be assumed to be because of capitalism. This feels an awful lot like when people try to claim Christianity is responsible for modern science. You don't even slightly know what socialism is. Hey, perhaps learn the difference between communism and socialism before talking about either? ETA: And as long as we're misunderstanding economic systems I'm gonna go ahead and lay the deaths caused by things like the genocide in the Americas and the Irish Potato famine. So that's what? 100+ million deaths? Guess capitalism is not very successful. Socialism , Collective ownership of the means production and distribution of good , everyone get paid the same, ect. Its the stage of civilization before Communism to create a new Utopia . And yes Im well aware socialism existed long before Karl Marx even came up with the his tabloid Communist Manfesto or his monumentally boring Capital . I have copies of both of those works by Marx. Yes Capitalism is not not and of itself inherently good and there have been lots of ruthless business who did pretty horrendous things in the name of capitalism and Im not making any excuses for them. I have a suggestion , try to imagine what your existence would be like in a world which didn't experience capitalism . If you even existed at all in such alternate world you'd be living the medieval life and you'd probably have life expectancy of maybe 35 years of less depending on what felled be felled by flu or a simple infection or that bad piece unrefrigerated spoiled food you decide to eat one day. ETA Im well aware of the of the history Americas and what happened to the Aztec and Incas and the tribes of North America . Have you ever head of Fray Diego de Landa ? On the Potato Famine, about million death as a result British economic and political policy towards Ireland which were was quite ruthless and can can be traced back to the time of Henry VIII, but, the ones that did the most damage to Ireland Was William III a.k A William of Orange who improvised The catholic population of Ireland because they sided with James II. And Sir Robert Peels failure to grasp the consequences of the potato blight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GAROVORKIN Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 1 hour ago, Crazy Cat Lady in Training said: As someone who grew up in Pittsburgh and remembers the collapse of steel very well, I can tell you that Carnegie paid his workers practically nothing and their working conditions were absolutely appalling. He was a ruthless son of a bitch. Ever heard of Pinkerton? He and the other titans of industry (the robber barons) fought tooth and nail against fair labor practices and safe working conditions. Steel workers didn't start earning good wages until much later. Yeah, he went all noble and philanthropic later. That doesn't change the fact that he and every other capitalist made their fortunes by exploiting other people. The Homestead Strike of 1881 comes to mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
all swedes are racist Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 17 minutes ago, DraculaAD1972 said: Not an argument, folks. Insults are not an argument. It's a shame that Cubans also have no freedom. And I'm sure cost of living is easily reduced by government-enforced consumer choices. Tell them what to eat, what to wear, what to think, how to live. [guy freezing to death sleeping on the street in the wealthiest nation in the history of the planet] at least i have... *cough*... consumer choice... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 49 minutes ago, Pony Queen Jace said: I actually have to go with really stupid Most trolls have enough self-conscious not to actually try to claim Hitler was a leftist. 45 minutes ago, TrueMetis said: Could just be a stupid troll. Yeah, as soon as I typed that I thought "well, why does it have to be or? it could be and!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DraculaAD1972 Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 6 minutes ago, dr. thicc president said: [guy freezing to death sleeping on the street in the wealthiest nation in the history of the planet] at least i have... *cough*... consumer choice... Don't be fooled. Many homeless people have allowed drug habits to ruin their lives. Many are mentally ill. All deserve compassion and charity. But their plight doesn't justify the nightmare of a Leftist state dominating an entire nation- a steel hand in a velvet glove, crushing the peoples freedom even as it saves them from the evils of capitalism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GAROVORKIN Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 1 hour ago, Crazy Cat Lady in Training said: What makes you say that? He killed the communists and socialists first. No , Hitler wasn't a socialist. He need the support of big business, so, he was willing to leave private enterprise in tact so long as private enterprise served the interests of the Nazi state. Hitlers associate and ally Ernst Rohm head the SA was a socialist and wanted to nationalize German industry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
all swedes are racist Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 6 minutes ago, DraculaAD1972 said: Don't be fooled. Many homeless people have allowed drug habits to ruin their lives. Many are mentally ill. All deserve compassion and charity. But their plight doesn't justify the nightmare of a Leftist state dominating an entire nation- a steel hand in a velvet glove, crushing the peoples freedom even as it saves them from the evils of capitalism. yes it does also, foh with “have allowed” jfc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 Preeety sure Hitler was a fascist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Arryn Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 Honestly, I thought that whole ‘right-wingers will try and call Hitler left-wing ‘cause “Socialist” thing was a derogatory myth. You live and learn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DraculaAD1972 Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 6 minutes ago, dr. thicc president said: yes it does also, foh with “have allowed” jfc Yes it does - is not an argument. As for offensive - the language doesn't alter the point- whether 'have allowed' or not, whether we ascribe any agency or not to society's most unfortunate- being an addict or mentally unwell doesn't prove anything about capitalism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 Saying that's not an argument is also not an argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
all swedes are racist Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 3 minutes ago, DraculaAD1972 said: Yes it does - is not an argument. As for offensive - the language doesn't alter the point- whether 'have allowed' or not, whether we ascribe any agency or not to society's most unfortunate- being an addict or mentally unwell doesn't prove anything about capitalism. it’s not an argument it’s a statement of fact true, being an addict or having mental health issues isn’t an indictment of capitalism, but having homelessness is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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