mzso

What will and what won't be in the books from seasons 6 and 7? What do you think?

15 posts in this topic

Hi!

I was wondering what people think of of the shows relevance to the so-far unpublished novels.

I think many major plot elements are unlikely to appear in the books:

  • Cersei as queen. Cersei has totally fallen in the books. She has neither power, nor supporters. Lost the regency the hand is Lord Tyrell, Tarly's on the council, Swyft is sent off to Bravos, her guards were dismissed. She might as well get executed after the trial by combat.
  • Jon and Daenerys: It seems to me that Jon and Val have just started warming up to each other. I can't imagine him getting infatuated with Daenerys who's infatuated with Daario, if she ever reaches Westeros.
  • Arya the super-terminator: Not to mention that it's quite stupid, I think she'll be sent away from the House of Black and White, because of her second infringement in the Mercy chapter. And I doubt she'll be allowed to take a sack of faces, which she doesn't even know how it works. In the series apparently it also changes people's bodies somehow. (lazy writing)
  • Sansa and the Vale army in the North: I can't imagine how or why she would get there with her entanglement in the Vale. It seems to me that no-one in the Vale thinks about the North and vice Versa. The Battle of Bastards might happen in a fashion, except that Jon would likely be king by then. Provided he lives at all.
  • Cersei and Jaime: Yeah. I doubt that they'll ever be amicable again. Of course Cersei now regined interest in him, after she lost everything, but I doubt Jaime will forget her treachery and duplicitousness. Hell, Jaime doesn't seem like to live long in the grasp of corpse Catelyn.
  • Bitches rule Dorne: Impossible. Apart from them not being hostile to the Martells they were sent off from Dorne, nor would the Lord allow them to rule. (Plus Ellaria is a non-factor in the books). But since this entire storyline was nixed in the series, I guess it won't end well, for the Dornish and Connington's lot.

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Posted (edited)

On 4/9/2018 at 10:57 AM, mzso said:

Cersei as queen. Cersei has totally fallen in the books. She has neither power, nor supporters. Lost the regency the hand is Lord Tyrell, Tarly's on the council, Swyft is sent off to Bravos, her guards were dismissed. She might as well get executed after the trial by combat.

Varys is back in the frame and he seems to be orchestrating her return to power (because she's so terrible at it).  The final straw (in the series) was the destruction of the Sept with everyone in it, which I could totally see happening in the next book.  I also believe Tommen will not survive the next book, although I think it will be Cersei that kills him.  

On 4/9/2018 at 10:57 AM, mzso said:

Jon and Daenerys: It seems to me that Jon and Val have just started warming up to each other. I can't imagine him getting infatuated with Daenerys who's infatuated with Daario, if she ever reaches Westeros

No opinion, other than they will meet at some point.

On 4/9/2018 at 10:57 AM, mzso said:

Arya the super-terminator: Not to mention that it's quite stupid, I think she'll be sent away from the House of Black and White, because of her second infringement in the Mercy chapter. And I doubt she'll be allowed to take a sack of faces, which she doesn't even know how it works. In the series apparently it also changes people's bodies somehow. (lazy writing)

It's not so crazy.  She's killed plenty in the books.  I can't believe she's doing all that water dancing and faceless man training for nothing.  That kid is going to make a lot of Westerosi corpses I think.

On 4/9/2018 at 10:57 AM, mzso said:

Sansa and the Vale army in the North: I can't imagine how or why she would get there with her entanglement in the Vale. It seems to me that no-one in the Vale thinks about the North and vice Versa. The Battle of Bastards might happen in a fashion, except that Jon would likely be king by then. Provided he lives at all

Jon will definitely return. Sansa's story will resemble the series only in details, if at all.  I don't see her going north.

On 4/9/2018 at 10:57 AM, mzso said:

Cersei and Jaime: Yeah. I doubt that they'll ever be amicable again. Of course Cersei now regined interest in him, after she lost everything, but I doubt Jaime will forget her treachery and duplicitousness. Hell, Jaime doesn't seem like to live long in the grasp of corpse Catelyn

Jamie and Stoneheart are about to meet, Martin says she will be an extremely consequential character in the remaining books.  Who knows?

On 4/9/2018 at 10:57 AM, mzso said:

Bitches rule Dorne: Impossible. Apart from them not being hostile to the Martells they were sent off from Dorne, nor would the Lord allow them to rule. (Plus Ellaria is a non-factor in the books). But since this entire storyline was nixed in the series, I guess it won't end well, for the Dornish and Connington's lot.

Stranger things have happened.  Dornish laws of succession are different than the rest of Westeros.  In the books, Arianne Martell is Doran's heir.  Prince Doran will probably die; more from old age and gout rather than assasination.

 

What won't happen:

Cleganebowl.

That's all.

Edited by Deadlines? What Deadlines?

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Battle of Bastards.

Arya killing adult members of House Frey.

Euron alliance with Cersei.

Asha meeting Daenerys.

Ramsay will, probably, kill Roose in fit of rage, after beign called bastard.

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Things I see happening in the books: Jon and Dany getting together, Cersei being queen.

Arya's abilities are likely exaggerated in the show, but I see a similar plot line for her in the books. Dorne will probably be completely different in the books, but I wouldn't be surprised if Doran dies and Dorne is left with inexperienced/no leadership.

Sansa might marry Harry the heir and come to command the vale armies. And I'm getting a feeling cersei might get pregnant and Jaime will know it's not his child as cersei was on her period the last time they had sex.

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2 hours ago, Apoplexy said:

Things I see happening in the books: Jon and Dany getting together, Cersei being queen.

Arya's abilities are likely exaggerated in the show, but I see a similar plot line for her in the books. Dorne will probably be completely different in the books, but I wouldn't be surprised if Doran dies and Dorne is left with inexperienced/no leadership.

Sansa might marry Harry the heir and come to command the vale armies. And I'm getting a feeling cersei might get pregnant and Jaime will know it's not his child as cersei was on her period the last time they had sex.

How do you imagine Cersei becoming queen?

I don't know about Arya. She won't be getting faces (not as if she knows how to use them in the first place). Of course her skills with the sword will matter very little compared to an armored knight (Or any decent one without an armor). And poisonings are not really viable if you have to sneak around.

Edited by mzso

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On 4/15/2018 at 3:14 PM, mzso said:

How do you imagine Cersei becoming queen?

I don't know about Arya. She won't be getting faces (not as if she knows how to use them in the first place). Of course her skills with the sword will matter very little compared to an armored knight (Or any decent one without an armor). And poisonings are not really viable if you have to sneak around.

Arya's whole plotline has been about learning to kill people. She's not going to suddenly take up knitting in the last books.

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21 hours ago, Hodor's Dragon said:

Arya's whole plotline has been about learning to kill people. She's not going to suddenly take up knitting in the last books.

Well, she could kill a few people she meets as she killed Raff. But in westeros she can't just go wherever she pleases when people can recognize her. And I doubt she could sneak into the Twins the kill all the Freys and such.

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2 hours ago, mzso said:

Well, she could kill a few people she meets as she killed Raff. But in westeros she can't just go wherever she pleases when people can recognize her. And I doubt she could sneak into the Twins the kill all the Freys and such.

The Freys have never met her.  The whole point of fArya marrying Ramsey is that no one actually knows her face. everyone who does is dead or missing. For a would be assassin, you can't have a better cover than being an 11 year old girl.

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On 9.4.2018 at 5:57 PM, mzso said:
  • Cersei as queen. Cersei has totally fallen in the books. She has neither power, nor supporters. Lost the regency the hand is Lord Tyrell, Tarly's on the council, Swyft is sent off to Bravos, her guards were dismissed. She might as well get executed after the trial by combat.

When you've got your fingers on a nuke, OR have Voldemort-like magic powers, the rules of "needing the support of the elite and populace to hold on to power" don't really apply to you as much.

Think people are underestimating that a bit when talking all about people tolerating Cersei's reign, not that the show isn't guilty of forgetting to really make that point stick.

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Cersei's not going anywhere.  Once you clue in on GRRM's pattern with her (and every character really, but especially her), it becomes pretty obvious..  

Basically:  Every time things start looking down for Cersei and fans get hopeful she'll get got, GRRM reverses course to fuck with reader's expectations. 

Ned about to seize control of KL from her?  The tables turned in her favor.  Stannis about to sack KL and destroy her?  The tables turned in her favor.  Joff dies and Tywin wants to ship her off to marry a Greyjoy?  The tables turned and she was suddenly running the whole show.  The sparrows/Tyrell's about to ruin her....yeah, no.  The evil bitch isn't going anywhere.    

The moment when you should get your hopes up regarding Cersei's downfall will be when everything looks like it's turning up Cersei, because the inverse of the above pattern is also true.  When things start working out for her and readers are getting frustrated with it, that's when George brings her low to everyone's massive delight.

The Starks are dead and Joff is looking secure on the throne?  Joff dies in her arms.  Cersei thinks she's outmaneuvered everyone and taken out the Tyrell's?  She wound up shaved and shamed in a cell.

After besting the sparrows/Tyrell's and Cersei starts thinking she's hot shit again...her children will promptly die.  That's what the pattern points to.      

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On 2018. 04. 18. at 11:17 AM, Pink Fat Rast said:

When you've got your fingers on a nuke, OR have Voldemort-like magic powers, the rules of "needing the support of the elite and populace to hold on to power" don't really apply to you as much.

Think people are underestimating that a bit when talking all about people tolerating Cersei's reign, not that the show isn't guilty of forgetting to really make that point stick.

I fail to see any relevant powers at this point, much less a nuke. "Her claws were pulled"

She has the mountain, but that's it. And I'm quite sure, the mountain can still be hacked to pieces as a zombie.

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22 hours ago, Ser Wun Wun said:

Cersei's not going anywhere.  Once you clue in on GRRM's pattern with her (and every character really, but especially her), it becomes pretty obvious..  

Basically:  Every time things start looking down for Cersei and fans get hopeful she'll get got, GRRM reverses course to fuck with reader's expectations.

I wonder what will be the unlikely turn of events then. Somehow I don't think that blowing up the sept would make people want to follow her.

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3 hours ago, mzso said:

I fail to see any relevant powers at this point, much less a nuke. "Her claws were pulled"

She has the mountain, but that's it. And I'm quite sure, the mountain can still be hacked to pieces as a zombie.

i don't think it'll take too much effort for her to get support of the alchemists guild, specially now Tyrion is gone. 

3 hours ago, mzso said:

I wonder what will be the unlikely turn of events then. Somehow I don't think that blowing up the sept would make people want to follow her.

no, it won't... but it might people not want to oppose her out of her which is her philosophy

On 9/4/2018 at 11:57 AM, mzso said:
  • Bitches rule Dorne: Impossible. Apart from them not being hostile to the Martells they were sent off from Dorne, nor would the Lord allow them to rule. (Plus Ellaria is a non-factor in the books). But since this entire storyline was nixed in the series, I guess it won't end well, for the Dornish and Connington's lot.

I believe ShowEllaria is based to some degree in Arianne, so odds are the story will be similar to some degree anyway 

 

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3 hours ago, mzso said:

I fail to see any relevant powers at this point, much less a nuke. "Her claws were pulled"

She has the mountain, but that's it. And I'm quite sure, the mountain can still be hacked to pieces as a zombie.

Pig shit. The power cometh from the pig shit.

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On 4/18/2018 at 2:06 PM, Ser Wun Wun said:

Cersei's not going anywhere.  Once you clue in on GRRM's pattern with her (and every character really, but especially her), it becomes pretty obvious..  

Basically:  Every time things start looking down for Cersei and fans get hopeful she'll get got, GRRM reverses course to fuck with reader's expectations. 

Ned about to seize control of KL from her?  The tables turned in her favor.  Stannis about to sack KL and destroy her?  The tables turned in her favor.  Joff dies and Tywin wants to ship her off to marry a Greyjoy?  The tables turned and she was suddenly running the whole show.  The sparrows/Tyrell's about to ruin her....yeah, no.  The evil bitch isn't going anywhere.    

The moment when you should get your hopes up regarding Cersei's downfall will be when everything looks like it's turning up Cersei, because the inverse of the above pattern is also true.  When things start working out for her and readers are getting frustrated with it, that's when George brings her low to everyone's massive delight.

The Starks are dead and Joff is looking secure on the throne?  Joff dies in her arms.  Cersei thinks she's outmaneuvered everyone and taken out the Tyrell's?  She wound up shaved and shamed in a cell.

After besting the sparrows/Tyrell's and Cersei starts thinking she's hot shit again...her children will promptly die.  That's what the pattern points to.      

I agree with you. I think people underestimate way too much her chances of having a big come back and being relevent to the end game. People think too linearly.

Edited by jcmontea

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