Mad Men - Season 4 - SPOILERS Thread

[Rhom]

Wasn't Pete the one who told Don about it and basically got Freddy canned?

[Anya, Vengeance Demon]

Wasn't Pete the one who told Don about it and basically got Freddy canned?

More or less. Pete told Duck about it, and Duck insisted that Freddy be fired, over Don's objections. As I recall, Freddy made a comment about it afterward that suggested that he saw it as basically Pete gunning for him (although I don't think that's necessarily true).

[Rhom]

More or less. Pete told Duck about it, and Duck insisted that Freddy be fired, over Don's objections. As I recall, Freddy made a comment about it afterward that suggested that he saw it as basically Pete gunning for him (although I don't think that's necessarily true).

That's right... and Duck later thought that the whole thing was Pete and Peggy working together to get her a leg up in her career.

[Blaine]

Yet he seemed to have no problem whatsoever with Peggy. Even called her Ballerina. And put up with her calling him old-fashioned.

I guess Pete just brings that out in people.

[Anya, Vengeance Demon]

Yet he seemed to have no problem whatsoever with Peggy. Even called her Ballerina. And put up with her calling him old-fashioned.

I don't know that Freddy necessarily thinks that Peggy was involved in getting him fired. From what we know, Roger (or Don) just told Freddy that Pete reported him. Freddy also presumably knows something about what happened at the end of season one. And considering that we know how Freddy's mind works--"slow and obvious," according to Roger--I think that Freddy would just conclude that Pete was a slimy back-stabber who thought that reporting Freddy would make him look good. I don't see him even considering Peggy being involved, because the explanation he has is perfectly credible.

Duck obv. came to a different conclusion, but Duck knows (a) that Pete made Peggy look good in the meeting, and (B) that Peggy ended up taking Freddy's job. I don't see Roger or Don passing either of those things along.

[Samalander]

And then the next scene where Allison is all bubbly and happy thinking that her and Don had “something” … and he gives her $100.00. He might as well have left it on the nightstand. (though to be fair to Don, he HAD said he was getting her a bonus no matter what). The actress who played Allison did a phenomenal job reminding us that not every woman in Madmen acts like Joan and Peggy.

The fact it was cash pretty much guarentees it came from Don's own pocket. It wasn't a company check. And he should have really made sure it would be, after what happened between them.

Completely agreed. In hind-sight he maybe should have mailed it to her, but the problem was that he had already said she was getting a bonus: X-Mas was fast approaching. Had he not given her the bonus, I think its worse. Here there is no good answer, so Don just bites the bullet: he told her what to expect, he gave her what she expected (in this limited regrad). It blows that she feels like a whore and that Don is the one making her feel that way. But can you blame Don for ... for making good on his promise?

Am I the only one who got the impression it was her resignation letter she was typing at the end of the episode?

[Relic]

Am I the only one who got the impression it was her resignation letter she was typing at the end of the episode?

No, that's what i thought as well, until she started staring out the window.

[Rockroi]

I thought last night was a very good "transition" episode where we move out of one frame of mind and into the other. The episode ends where the new year begins. And for a very "bridge" episode, it had a wide range of plot points covered (in retrospect, tis was a very "wall-to-wall" episode wherein everything covered seemed important even if nothing went "nuclear").

-I thought Don was so humane with Anna that it showed how hard it is on him to lose more people who knew Don as Dick, AND how he handled it. Anna is the one person on the planet (save EVENTUALLY Betty) that he is honest with, and he has to live a separate lie with her for the benefit of others. It was a huge moment: Don/Dick decides to LIE for the benefit of the other person, knowing that telling the truth would only make him feel better. This is in stark contrast to Don constantly telling lies to benefit himself or the truth to benefit others (Betty). And its eating away at him.

And then Don says to Lane the subtext of the whole season: are you going to do what you want or what is expected of you? Don JUST gave his answer: he WANTS to tell Anna; he does what is EXPECTED of him.

-We all wanted a Lane episode; we all wanted a Joan episode. So, we got both. A great tie-in between the two characters; Lane being Lane; Joan being Joan. What I like about Madmen is VERY similar to why I like ASoIaF: when Martin writes characters in conflict, he does not feel the need to undermine ONE character for the benefit of the other. Same was true here: when Joan confronts Lane, Lane pushes back (twice, actually) and Joan does not back down. The dialog they had was very strong. And the end result that his wife gets a note about Joan... wowza.

Land really did a great job this episode, letting his hair down. The actor playing Lane did a fantastic job drawing Lane out in zany ways, but also in keeping the transformation believable- stress, desire and a little alcohol can give Lane more reason to act out, but he has to stay Lane. That performance was perfect.

-And I was also struck by how easily they fired the secretary. Yes, I know she screwed up, but they fired her so fast that I was, again, jolted awake by how... how 1964 that was! Good moment (even if I felt bad).

-Joan was amazing with her doctor, her bosses, and finally her husband in seeing that he is TRYING and has some skills. At the same time, I thought it was hilarious as she tried desperately to get to the hospital; the subtext being "Dear God, please do not touch me! I am afraid you are a terrible doctor." But I am always reminded... you know he raped you once, right?

Overall, a very solid episode where not MUCH happens, but you see the transition, you see how they are all changing: Joan's desire for a family (its probably not happening); Don having to say goodbye to Anna; Lane not having a marriage any longer. Its 1965 now... and the whole world is about to explode.

[Mlle. Zabzie]

A few things that I noticed about this ep and a few thoughts (in no particular order):

1. Don's apartment, which we heretofore had only been seen at night, and which was very dark (leading to the Norman Mailer joke this week), we finally see in the morning. And it is not nearly as dark and Hopper-esque in the morning. It's actually fairly bright and pleasant - symbolic of new beginnings in 1965?

2. Joanie rails at Lane for treating her like a child, then she goes home and her husband treats her like a child (the "how did that bird's nest get there. . . I usually save that for children" bit). But it was nice to see Joanie at the head of the table running the meeting (whether the men in charge acknowledge it or not) at the end of the ep.

3. Do we think that Don does actually bring his kids out to California to meet Anna in the spring (assuming that she lasts that long)? I'd love to see Sally's behavior then.

4. Loved the Godzilla scene. I died laughing. I'm still laughing.

5. Don is now 0-5 in women he tried to seduce as opposed to pay for: Jane's friend, the nurse, Allison,the psych and now Anna's niece. Has Don lost his mojo?

[Blaine]

I don't think Don's putting much effort into his seduction game. I mean, he could go out with his blind date again, he just hasn't called her. At least that's what I picked up from last week's jibe from Roger. No, now Don is basically drinking too much and occasionally throwing out blatant passes here and there. Which unfortunately worked on his secretary. It seems pretty clear, he's not really interested in anything beyond getting laid. And he can get that for $25. Which seems crazy cheap to my 2010 ears.

Still, I totally enjoyed the Don and Lane show. Even Greg won me over a little bit with his "Donkey Dick" joke.

But Anna's cancer pretty much means there's no way Don's going out there in the Spring with the kids. That's just one of those lies Don has to say to get by. And I think that closes a certain door for Don. Really, the very last bit of his old life dying.

Now he faces a much tougher task of building a new life and truly starting over from scratch. Clearly, he's not in a big hurry to so. But, it is officially 1965. So maybe it's time.

[Rockroi]

And I think that closes a certain door for Don. Really, the very last bit of his old life dying.

I just want to point out that TWO other people identified Don as Dick; they both know Dick is Dick. Now, what I am not clear on is whether or not they KNOW Don is Dick. I doubt it very seriously. If that's true, we have a major issue. What if, after Anna dies, these two women discover that Dick is Don? At that point they could make it an issue. And in that line, Don's past comes back to ruin him.

[Tears of Lys]

The thing about last night's episode that really grabbed me was how certain Don was that if Betty knew who he really was, she wouldn't want him. Pretty heartbreaking.

And yeah, $25 for a call girl (which I assume those were) - wow.

[GuybrushThreepwood]

I thought Don didn't tell Lane the real cost of the call girls. Didn't he pay $100 the other day? Which then came back when that was the amount that Don's secretary got for her Christmas bonus.

This was a great episode, though the scenes with Anna were devastating. I'm another who thinks that seeing Anna meeting Don's kids would be great, but I don't know if it will ever happen.

[Blaine]

I just want to point out that TWO other people identified Don as Dick; they both know Dick is Dick. Now, what I am not clear on is whether or not they KNOW Don is Dick. I doubt it very seriously. If that's true, we have a major issue. What if, after Anna dies, these two women discover that Dick is Don? At that point they could make it an issue. And in that line, Don's past comes back to ruin him.

I meant more metaphorically, for Don. It was pretty well telegraphed. One minute Don is holding Anna and saying goodbye. And we see him as she says, off-camera "Goodbye Dick." Next scene he's on the plane. "Mr. Draper? Mr. Draper?"

Theoretically, I supposed Anna's relatives could/might bring back their knowledge of Don's identity as Dick, but I think it's doubtful. Certainly less likely than Betty or Cooper or even Pete letting the cat out of the bag back in NYC.

When I say the last bit of his old life dying, I meant it to mean more that Don has lost his brother, his wife, his kids and now the one person that seemed almost family to him. I'm not sure what else he has left.

[fitheach]

Loved that episode!! So happy to have more of Lane and Joanie, especially their scenes together=fireworks!

Joan: Breasts or thighs?

Lane: Both?

:rofl:

I've loved Jared Harris (Lane) in every film I've seen him in. Even if the film sucks, he's always great. It's easy to forget he's Richard Harris' son...

[Nichole]

But I am always reminded... you know he raped you once, right?

I almost found myself liking Greg in this episode and then I remind myself that he raped her. I'm always struck by how in control Joan seems at work, and then she goes home and everything is out of her control.

4. Loved the Godzilla scene. I died laughing. I'm still laughing.

So did my husband and I. :lol: I've been liking Lane's character for some time and seeing him really cut loose like that was fun.

Don does seem to be loosing it. I watched the Christmas episode right before this one and the line "God, he's pathetic" by the artist really shocked me. Don has always been the man, and now he is not having the success that always seemed to come so easily to him. I have been cringing seeing him try to seduce women lately. First with his secretary and then with Anna's niece.

While it makes me sad to see is character going down this path, it is fascinating.

[Rhom]

Lane slapping his steak on his crotch and declaring it a Texas beltbuckle was all I really needed to see in this episode.

:rofl:

[Brude]

I've loved Jared Harris (Lane) in every film I've seen him in. Even if the film sucks, he's always great. It's easy to forget he's Richard Harris' son...

Wow, I would have never guessed that.

[Lord Mord]

I love Jared Harris's voice! I want to wrap myself up in it like a fleece blanket and a bowl of hot cocoa on a late autumn afternoon. And more than once in this episode I felt like hugging Lane just because.

I felt really uncomfortable when they went to the comedy club. I kept thinking that a drunken Lane was just about to say something stupid, tip his hand, and give the comedian all the ammunition he needed to make a complete meal out of him and Don -- and wreck everything.

I also liked Greg. His tenderness seemed so genuine, and strangely vulnerable, and for an instant I loved him for it. I couldn't forget he was a rapist but I also refused in the moment to stop my feeling affectionate for him just then. He is also very pretty, though am I the only one that notices a strange shadow appears on his forehead in about half the shots? It makes it look like he has a massive depression above his left eye, as though somebody beat in that half of his brow with a flat, round, blunt instrument. When they get in closer, or do him more in profile, then it disappears, but it was seriously distracting -- made the character look weak and the actor just a little bit silly.

I don't think Don has "lost his mojo," but only in the sense that I think his problem is not really having a clear picture of what he wants. Well, that and his increasing reliance on booze. If he could just find a center again and work from there, between his stark beauty and his innate smoothness and a certain nimbleness of wit, he'd have few to no problems whatsoever.

Besides -- the man was never exactly a god. Sometimes you just strike out, and sometimes it happens a few times in a row. So what?

[fitheach]

Wow, I would have never guessed that.

Really? Most people wouldn't know, but thought you would :).

He doesn't look or sound like his father (although I love his look and voice), but he does have his da's presence.