[BOOK/TVSPOILERS] Blackfish

[Athelstane]

I really hope that they don't make Edmure more badass or "manly", he's supposed to be the goofy little brother that never quite measured up next to Catelyn's Perfect Older Sister.

Yeah but he's supposed to be middle aged, and basically the Lord of Riverrun (if not in title, in deeds) ever since Hoster became ill. And yet he's still this bumbling idiot who acts more like Lancel Lannister then Robb Stark? Pft. Pft I say!

[Lady Blackfish]

Edmure's sisters are middle aged, I got the feeling he's quite a bit younger than them. His father was still lord for most of his life so I think a "doesn't apply himself in class" angle could still work well enough. Do we know exactly how long Hoster had been ill before we meet up with him?

They changed some of Sansa's character dynamics due to the TV character being older than the book character. I must say I found that change uninspired. If they have to cast older actors, fine, but I would rather they not sacrifice the characterization for it. Frankly, it's not really on Edmure's behalf that I care so much as Catelyn's (a main character, POV in the books, pretty high billing on the show), I want to see a woman who is as perfectly competent as any of her male relatives but was passed over for leadership purely because she's a woman. I think some of that dynamic is lost with Richard Madden appearing so fully grown; in the last episode I was rather disappointed that they didn't include the part where Cat tests Robb on specific tactics, nor were they able to show that Robb was looking for her permission and confidence in his endeavors. I'd rather not lose more of the dynamic with Edmure on top of that, and Edmure's personality allows it to be preserved regardless of the actor's age better than Robb.

[brook]

I really hope that they don't make Edmure more badass or "manly", he's supposed to be the goofy little brother that never quite measured up next to Catelyn's Perfect Older Sister.

Besides I like Edmure as he is. He makes huge mistakes but he makes them for a reason, he honestly cares about the people he is supposed to be protecting. That makes his mistakes believable and I would hate to lose his soft heartedness just as much as I would hate to lose the Blackfish.

[ferthepoet]

The one thing the Blackfish character has than no other does is being a cool Tully, lets be honest Hoster is one of the main responsibles for the whole war for not letting her daughter keep Littlefingers child, Lysa is batshit crazy, Regardless of what you think about Catelyn in the past she is now a Zombie who corrupted the only group of people who were doing something for the small folk, Edmure is sympathetic but clearly out of his depth as lord of Riverrun, Sansa is said to take after her mother and is more of a Tully than a Stark which is why she sucks so much while all her siblings are pure awesome. The Blackfish is the only character who can make a case about why the Tully seed should not be erradicated for the good of Westeros. Thinking about it the whole reason he would not marry may not be because he is gay as speculated but because he is just afraid his kids can be like the rest of his family.

[Ser Warpechowski]

Everyone is older. Cat even says she could still bear a few more children in the books, but in the show she is much older and her brothere will probabily be too, so I think Edmure will be diferent.

[Padraig]

Cat even says she could still bear a few more children in the books, but in the show she is much older and her brothere will probabily be too, so I think Edmure will be diferent.

Certainly possible. But then Renly was not aged much (if at all). The producers can be pretty flexible in this regard. Whatever they think will work story-wise.

Also, someone brought up that they're casting Dolorous Edd in the second season. He literally does nothing for the plot.

But as somebody else mentioned, his humour is the kind of thing that should work well on screen. So i'm not surprised to see him, even if it isn't for plot reasons.

[Abaddon]

I don't think there's any way the Blackfish is cut before D&D write the original script treatment of A Clash of Kings. I don't know what the timeline for that is, but I could imagine him being cut only after they have at least a rough idea of what their adaptation is going to look like, in broad strokes. The fact that the Blackfish doesn't show up in HBO's S1 guide doesn't mean anything at all, IMHO.

[Lady Blackfish]

Everyone is older. Cat even says she could still bear a few more children in the books, but in the show she is much older and her brothere will probabily be too, so I think Edmure will be diferent.

True, but not all details are as important or interesting. Catelyn's maternity prospects are pretty much a passing detail, while the character dynamics she has with Robb or Edmure or Brynden or whatnot add a lot more to the story. That Edmure may not look 25 is not really critical; but if possible, and within the limits of the presence they see fit to accord the character, I'd rather they preserve as much as they can of his general arc (from someone who goes from being a laddish, if well meaning sort, to someone who becomes sober and even impressive in his painfully protracted defeat).

[Cruella_Da_Oz]

Dolorous Edd doesn't need special introduction or anything, you just have background character with funny lines. Night watchers have to say SOMETHING and it makes no sense to create another background character when you already have perfect one ready-made.

I'd be fine with cutting Blackfish out, although yes, he can just appear in Riverrun like he lived there always. Now when I think about it, I am not sure what he's done that's so cool before B4.

[Werthead]

IIRC, GRRM has said that whilst only relatively minor characters (Desmond!) were dropped from Season 1/GoT, we will start to see 'bigger' characters not making the cut as the series progresses. If we have to start losing characters, the Blackfish is a logical choice. He has no vital story role and in fact there is some redundancy between him and Robb's sworn lords and other advisors: the Greatjon, already excellently-established in just one episode, can fulfil that task easily, as could Rickard Karstark (maybe bigging up his role for his ultimate fate in Season 3).

The Blackfish is a cool character who has a couple of interesting dialogue pieces and has a frosty relationship with his brother that gives more texture to House Tully as a faction. It'd be sad to lose these things, but they are not essential to the series.

[SerArthurHeath]

I'd miss the Blackfish's stand at Riverrun in aFfC but that's literally it

[Bunyon Knight]

The one thing the Blackfish character has than no other does is being a cool Tully, lets be honest Hoster is one of the main responsibles for the whole war for not letting her daughter keep Littlefingers child, Lysa is batshit crazy, Regardless of what you think about Catelyn in the past she is now a Zombie who corrupted the only group of people who were doing something for the small folk, Edmure is sympathetic but clearly out of his depth as lord of Riverrun, Sansa is said to take after her mother and is more of a Tully than a Stark which is why she sucks so much while all her siblings are pure awesome. The Blackfish is the only character who can make a case about why the Tully seed should not be erradicated for the good of Westeros. Thinking about it the whole reason he would not marry may not be because he is gay as speculated but because he is just afraid his kids can be like the rest of his family.

"Sansa takes after her mother, more Tully than Stark, which explains why she sucks so much."

That line and pretty much the rest of your post is one of the funniest things Ive ever read.

Buy seriously, I love the blackfish, and his absence is the first real big problem I have with the show. Uhm isn't he a strategic genius and mainly responsible for Robb's victories? Not to mention I firmly believe(hope actually) that he will send some serious mayhem in the direction of the Lannisters. By what resources and how, I can't begin to imagine

[Talleyrand]

This is a valid point, but they've also left out some random people who are in the first season. Like, Gregor Clegane is listed as part of the Lannister household, but Sandor isn't. And Theon, Luwin, and Jory are in the Stark household, but Rodrik isn't. It also doesn't show any of Kevan Lannister's children beyond Lancel, who could easily be included in the series without ever getting any screen time. So, while it does worry me that Blackfish wasn't included in that, it is nowhere near complete.

Not to be pedantic but as Joff's guard isn't Sandor technically part of the Baratheon household anyway?

[Padraig]

Uhm isn't he a strategic genius and mainly responsible for Robb's victories?

Isn't Robb the strategic genius, responsible for his own victories? Not that Blackfish isn't a great scout and a great man to have as an advisor. Or maybe I misremeber.

[Bunyon Knight]

Isn't Robb the strategic genius, responsible for his own victories? Not that Blackfish isn't a great scout and a great man to have as an advisor. Or maybe I misremeber.

I am not one hundred percent sure, but I think it was mentioned somewhere in the books that Blackfish(besides being and excellent scout and outrider) was Robb's main strategic planner or that it was his strategy that got Jamie captured. Obviously they can make anyone of Robb's bannermen play that role or have Robb claim the credit for the planning, but I am not happy with the ommision of Brynden.

[Abaddon]

I can't stand the argument that "you could cut the Blackfish because he's not very important; just merge him with someone else already cast". You could cut 90% of the book characters that made the show with the same argument. As a simple example, we just saw three of the hill tribe leaders: Shagga, Chella, Timmet. Did we really need ALL of them, more than we need the Blackfish (next season, not this)? Of course not.

There are something like 168 speaking parts in the first season. Anyone really think all 168 were key and required?

That said; yes, they may cut him, and if they do I am sure they have their reasons why. I just haven't heard a good reason yet, that can't be applied to numerous other marginal characters.

[Nihilist]

Blackfish is a pretty important character. He will be greatly missed if he doesn't show up in season 2.

[Dedsquirrl]

They better get Moon Boy into the mix.

Or one of Tyrion's best lines in the whole series will be wasted.

I think Brynden Tully still has a good chance of showing up.

We haven't heard any word on his casting, but IIRC, the only hill tribesman we saw casting information for was Shagga.

And then there was Timett and Chella.

If I had invented someone as cool as the Blackfish, I would be a little insistent that he showed up in the show.

Martin needs to drop a little hint that he may be hugely important in books 6 and 7.

[MyDogIsNamedDanerys]

I think they will cast Bryndyn Tully. We need a character with Robb so he can talk to someone in the added scenes following him (I'm certain we will see a lot more Robb than we see in the book given the patterns HBO has shown so far).

Also, they could have the character talk to Jaime some, as he'll be imprisoned at Riverrun. That way NCW will have more to do also. Not sure if that works out perfectly with where the characters are supposed to be in the books, but it's TV so can be fudged. Edmure can also do this.

We'll have more Tullys next season. I think that they simply didn't include the Blackfish because he wasn't terribly important this season. Rodrick was sufficient as a Cat companion. The only one I'm not sure about is Hoster - he might be killed offscreen before Cat and Robb even arrive.

[Bunyon Knight]

I think they will cast Bryndyn Tully. We need a character with Robb so he can talk to someone in the added scenes following him (I'm certain we will see a lot more Robb than we see in the book given the patterns HBO has shown so far).

Also, they could have the character talk to Jaime some, as he'll be imprisoned at Riverrun. That way NCW will have more to do also. Not sure if that works out perfectly with where the characters are supposed to be in the books, but it's TV so can be fudged. Edmure can also do this.

As I said before, I'm already really pissed blackfish was not yet included. But if they totally ommit him, or even worse: merge him with another character, in my mind that's a permanent black mark against the series. As I mentioned, I think the books state that Brynded has a lot to do with Robb's strategic planning if not entirely responsible for all the strategy. And what scares me is, you can see that they will push Robb to be the genius general based on how everyone treats him as a young'n and how Tywin says "green boy, he will run at the first sign of battle". So if Robb is the military mastermind, it seems to me the writers of the show have decided Brynden is not a worthwhile character( while Timmet son of Timmet is)