Angalin

[twow Spoilers] Arianne II, Part 2

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@daenarys snow

I think you could be right, if there are enough caves above ground connecting the tunnels, but those places would have to be protected and kept clear. It could well be that it is easier for the Children to come above ground now that war have emptied much of the lands in the south.

Maybe they also can live beneath ground without much food for long times so they could travel through the tunnels, but we will have to see if the story is true about Gendels children. What we know from that story is that there was a tunnel from north of the Wall to point south of it, but it's south exit was not very far since they were cought by Starks and Umbers, and that there are tunnels through parts of the area beyond the Wall.

I think the tunnels will be significant in the future story somehow, there are so many references to them to just be story-fillers.

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That was a great catch. I think you're truly onto something there. Haha I need to speed up my re-read and go over these parts again, but yeah, nice one.

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I suspected Arianne's disdain for the Tyrells was a Dornish thing. Oberyn was the same way.

I also was very curious about the wild weirwood. I don't think it was mentioned as happenstance. Same with the cave.

I agree about the Tyrell army - we have no reason to believe it is not more numerous than the Golden Company (the Tyrells have/had 2 armies in KL, each easily larger than the GC), but many Dornish have a natural disdain for the Reach (and vice versa). As far as we know, Randyll Tarly could be leading this army (if Mace decides to stay near his daughter, in KL) which would make it a dangerous opponent for a GC that has divided its forces to some degree.

I also wonder where Martin is going with the tunnels from the CotF - this has to come into play at some point, maybe with the Reeds who are looking for a way out (assuming Jojen is still OK, Brans last chapter has a bit of a creepy atmosphere around Jojen).

Thanks for typing this out Trebla, much appreciated!

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. As far as we know, Randyll Tarly could be leading this army (if Mace decides to stay near his daughter, in KL) which would make it a dangerous opponent for a GC that has divided its forces to some degree.

I think randyll will be an ally for aegon and JonC considering his behavior in kevan chapter

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I think randyll will be an ally for aegon and JonC considering his behavior in kevan chapter

What behaviour are you referring to?

As things are, Randyll Tarly stands to gain under Tommen/Margaery; he has arranged a lucrative marriage for his son with the heiress of Maidenpool. And he is a respected commander under Mace Tyrell, lately he even has been leading his own army (instead of only the van). Why would he switch to Aegon, especially if the latter has only the outnumbered Golden Company for the time being? If it looks like Aegon will win, maybe.

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What behaviour are you referring to?

like dismissing it imitiadly and downplaying it upon hearing it

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like dismissing it imitiadly and downplaying it upon hearing it

It's always possible there is a turncloak among the Reach group, but didn't even Mace more or less dismiss Aegon as a credible threat? He seemed to be way more focused on Cersei and the High Septon and see Aegon and co as no more but a band of outlaws and sellswords (not taking into account the formidable reputation of the Golden Company, which is not your average sellsword band, including in size).

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There was a weirwood tree at the whispers also. The groves were cut down by the andals like the ring of stumps at highheart. Perhaps more grow wild or there are secret groves?

In ASOS didn't the hidden cavern where Sandor fought Beric have weirwood roots in it?

If wights and others can't enter COTF tunnels. There may be secret ancient places all over westeros with similar properties? Perhaps that cavern was one such place.

Abandoned caverns and tunnels which belonged to cotf. Is the nature of the magic protecting the tunnels where bran is also related to the nature of magic in the wall, the nightfort gate had a weirwood face. Its a strong possibility.

I also think Gendels tunnels have significance. It sounds hard for people who may need supplies and torches.

But if Wights and Others can gain entry.... theres nothing to stop hordes of wights groping around til they find an exit. Though it may be if the tunnels are cotf related they can't enter.

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Connington is marching on Storm's End. Arianne and Daemon Sand are perplexed on how Connington can possible take the castle

... She thinks of cyvasse and that the Golden Company has it's elephant but no dragon.

... she learns she is to be sent to Storm's End because it has fallen. She does not learn how it fell.

Had a happy thought while I was reading this one as to how this utterly impregnable castle was taken so swiftly - it was a dragon, a mummer's dragon made of cloth held up with poles as already described by GRRM in prophecy.

Yes, really - with young Griff and some of his men inside.

Leaving aside obvious precedents like that wooden horse at Troy, GRRM prides himself on a good working knowledge of mediaeval military history and the Scottish Wars of Independence and will therefore be pretty familiar with Douglas taking Roxburgh by moving up his men hidden under bits of cloth to look like cattle in the twilight, and there was another one (I forget which) where they pulled the old trick of the hay wain stuffed full of soldiers.

Never mind the metaphysical prophecies, Storms End was (or rather will be) "liberated" by a mummers' cloth dragon on poles :cool4:

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Had a happy thought while I was reading this one as to how this utterly impregnable castle was taken so swiftly - it was a dragon, a mummer's dragon made of cloth held up with poles as already described by GRRM in prophecy.

Yes, really - with young Griff and some of his men inside.

Leaving aside obvious precedents like that wooden horse at Troy, GRRM prides himself on a good working knowledge of mediaeval military history and the Scottish Wars of Independence and will therefore be pretty familiar with Douglas taking Roxburgh by moving up his men hidden under bits of cloth to look like cattle in the twilight, and there was another one (I forget which) where they pulled the old trick of the hay wain stuffed full of soldiers.

Never mind the metaphysical prophecies, Storms End was (or rather will be) "liberated" by a mummers' cloth dragon on poles :cool4:

A dragon on poles would look farcical. However members of the golden company hiding in wagons posing as a resupply column may have merit.

If they used that ruse to open the gates at night. Thats a nod to Troy.

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A dragon on poles would look farcical.

Possibly, but very effective if Aegon and his men were/are pretending to be Mummers - it worked for the Black Douglas and it fits the prophecy in a turn around and bite you on the bum sort of way

Edited by Black Crow

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A very proper response to such a daring coup :cool4:

Just by the by, the hay wain trick wasn't a replay of the Trojan Horse. They jammed it under the portcullis long enough for everybody else to break cover and dash in through the open gate.

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But who are the crowds, the victorious golden company? The only fit here is potential mummery to gain access. Thats very vague.

One thing is I don't see how a garrison besieged so recently would just accept anything so simply.

Why would a troupe of mummers go to perform for a few hundred soldiers or why would said soldiers accept wagons when their king is at the other end of westeros?

Unless stormsend sent men out for supplies after Mace lifted the seige and one such party was hijacked by the golden company which is a possibility.

Maybe sallador saan was involved in ferrying the golden company and given his prior relationship with Stannis used that as a ruse to get access posing as resupply or reinforcent?

Tieing the mummers dragon vision to stormsends fall sounds a stretch.

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There was a weirwood tree at the whispers also. The groves were cut down by the andals like the ring of stumps at highheart. Perhaps more grow wild or there are secret groves? In ASOS didn't the hidden cavern where Sandor fought Beric have weirwood roots in it? If wights and others can't enter COTF tunnels. There may be secret ancient places all over westeros with similar properties? Perhaps that cavern was one such place. Abandoned caverns and tunnels which belonged to cotf. Is the nature of the magic protecting the tunnels where bran is also related to the nature of magic in the wall, the nightfort gate had a weirwood face. Its a strong possibility. I also think Gendels tunnels have significance. It sounds hard for people who may need supplies and torches. But if Wights and Others can gain entry.... theres nothing to stop hordes of wights groping around til they find an exit. Though it may be if the tunnels are cotf related they can't enter.

it could be possible that all these secret caves and tunnels will become refuges for the living while the land is being invaded by the others and their wights. perhaps these were where people hid during the long night while they were fighting the war for the dawn (obviously not finished in a day so people would have needed to find some safe shelter from the others).

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What behaviour are you referring to?

As things are, Randyll Tarly stands to gain under Tommen/Margaery; he has arranged a lucrative marriage for his son with the heiress of Maidenpool. And he is a respected commander under Mace Tyrell, lately he even has been leading his own army (instead of only the van). Why would he switch to Aegon, especially if the latter has only the outnumbered Golden Company for the time being? If it looks like Aegon will win, maybe.

Actually, the marriage for Dickon is to the heiress of Maidenpool not the Lannisters or the Tyrells, so the marriage would go unchanged. When Randyll Tarly's choosing which side to fight on, first compare Kings Tommen and Aegon, Tommen is a plump soft boy with a sweet, tractable nature who enjoys his kittens much like his son Sam (and we all know much he approved of him), while Aegon is fighting in his battles to retake the Iron Throne. Then compare the men leading either side: Griff and Mace Tyrell, Griff has a name as a warrior and he proves to be an experienced, qualified battle commander, while Mace Tyrell, the Fat Flower's great military prowess exists only in his head, and other than that he couldn't lead a troupe of mummers.

Edited by fireeater22

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it could be possible that all these secret caves and tunnels will become refuges for the living while the land is being invaded by the others and their wights. perhaps these were where people hid during the long night while they were fighting the war for the dawn (obviously not finished in a day so people would have needed to find some safe shelter from the others).

I think you are on to something (again) here. :)

The caverns beneath the weirwoods are beneath the earth (CotF sing to the earth), probably protected by some "weir-magic" and it would not surprise me if these places are the only ones that can keep you safe from the Others.

Places like Mole-town and the crypts of Winterfell could be such other places of refuge, perhaps built for this purpose even, though the stories in Westeros may say otherwise.

I would not be surprised if we get a POV searching the crypts of Winterfell only to find there is a cavern beneath the hearttree, that can be reached through the tunnels from the crypts. And that there are tunnels going other places too...

So if the Others invade, those who have been in contact with the CotF and/or know of these hiding places can stand a chance to survive. I guess very few then...

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A dragon on poles would look farcical.

Perhaps that's what the elephants are for? ^_^

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I think you are on to something (again) here. :)

The caverns beneath the weirwoods are beneath the earth (CotF sing to the earth), probably protected by some "weir-magic" and it would not surprise me if these places are the only ones that can keep you safe from the Others.

Places like Mole-town and the crypts of Winterfell could be such other places of refuge, perhaps built for this purpose even, though the stories in Westeros may say otherwise.

I would not be surprised if we get a POV searching the crypts of Winterfell only to find there is a cavern beneath the hearttree, that can be reached through the tunnels from the crypts. And that there are tunnels going other places too...

So if the Others invade, those who have been in contact with the CotF and/or know of these hiding places can stand a chance to survive. I guess very few then...

I like this idea. Perhaps the godswoods were not planted inside the very oldest castles but built around them for a reason long forgotten?

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I like this idea. Perhaps the godswoods were not planted inside the very oldest castles but built around them for a reason long forgotten?

Ooooh that is very clever. Maybe Brandon the builder who supposedly built Winterfell, and perhaps some other places too, knew about this from the CotF.

I think he had help from the CotF building the Wall and the Nightfort could have been built at the same time. The Nightfort was there during the reign of the 13th LC, the Night's King's kerfuffle (if the stories are somewhat correct) so that is not very long after Brandon the Builder (who for all we know could be the Night's King himself, heh, all the written stories come from Andal septons anyway, a little rewriting of history is not unheard of), and maybe even contemporary with the construction of the wall. There is a weirwood gate and now a weirwood sapling in that castle, perhaps there was a weirwood grove there when the castle was built? The wood the gate is made of perhaps was not put there but instead it was carved out if existing roots.

The castles at the Wall in general have tunnels underground too. They were of course built much later, but maybe there was a forgotten reason for the tunnels but they still just kept on making them out of tradition or practicality. The Nightfort could have been the example setting a standard.

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