[Book Spoilers] Nitpick without repercussion!

[victim]

When did Shae and Sansa become such awesome buddies? Why would Shae even care that Sansa got her period let alone be willing to put a knife to someone's throat to keep them from telling the queen?

[Lavean]

Could you link this please, because I can't find it. I do find a LOT of interviews with GRRM and his involvement with the production.

Yes, that quote below was what I was refering to. Been trying to find the video myself but I didn't have time to watch some 1h videos between now and my post last night ;)

Question: Given HBO's history of completely changing storylines, how did you get them to stay so true to your complex-as-hell- novels?

Candy and chocolates (laugh). You know, it's D&D, really. They are the showrunners. I don't have any veto power. I signed a pretty standard contract where I gave them the rights to adapt this into a television series and I got certain titles and agreed I'd write one script a year and a large dump truck full of money. And they can have the aliens come down next season. They can turn the whole cast into vampires. And I'm powerless to stop them, but I don't think they will do that.

Interesting, because this link of the2nd part of the TIFF interview, he talks of helping D&D write it:

Well, the point I was making was NOT that GRRM isn't involved in the tv show, obviously he is. BUT he can't tell the creators of the show what to do. They can sit down together and talk about it (which apparently they do) but ultimately it's D&D's decision.

Another quote that would emphasize this is when he said "The books are my baby, the show is D&D's baby". Unfortunately I - again - do not have a link to provide right away as I'm on the run but maybe someone else remembers this and knows where to find it in the meantime. Otherwise I'll look it up later.

Next time I watch videos on youtube, I'll start making notes ;)

[Umel of Ys]

I don't like the way they handle Cersei's character especially since it's becoming jarringly incoherent: the conversation with Tyrion made no sense after last week's threats. And if you add to that that they're downplaying Tyrion's strategic brilliance... I don't know what they're going for with those two.

As far as Tywin and Arya are concerned, it will actually pay off if we get to see Tywin's reaction when he realizes he let a Stark girl escape at which point nothing short of a rage massacre would be an appropriate reaction.

But the real let down for me was how they botched the final twist when it would have been sooo easy to create real suspense like there was in ACOK. Why did they keep mentioning and showing (!) the two orphan boys. Frankly I was expecting outrage, violent outbursts from non book readers. I haven't checked but I'm pretty sure Larry didn't freak out over this.

Apart from that I actually enjoy the new Qarth story line and I'm actually grateful to the writers for trying to keep an element of surprise for us readers especilly since it would have been easier to stick to the original material.

[1234567]

and a nitpick from Epi 6, when Robb approaches Lady Talyne, she doesnt rise, inexcusable in fact I note alot of disregard for basic courtesies to the high born throughout the season

:agree: Indeed. The show seems to be disregarding the time setting and world ideas that GRRM has so carefully crafted.

Along with the Tywin / Arya scenes, which are great but painfully out of character for both of them and detrimental to proper canon story development. Even Cersei lighting her own candles seemed silly (why would she dismiss her handmaidens?). It seems like the producers have forgotten the time setting. Looking at GRRM's comment below, I wonder if HBO is now beginning to do bad fantasy.

He objects to bad fantasy practice which adopts a time setting without accepting the culture - imposing 20th century values like the cheeky stableboy telling off the princess (in reality cheeky stableboy would lose his tongue - look what happend to Micah); the class system was not just and ornament and these people truly belived in blood, and the rank and priviledge that came with "good" blood.

http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/Canadian_Signing_Tour_Vancouver1/

[Davos55]

The changes to Jon Snow's storyline are just ridiculous and completely less compelling than the novel. I came into this episode expecting to not see much of Jon Snow at all, or see him waking up and finding that Ygritte had escaped during the night, allowing him to rejoin the NW. Instead we watch Jon be lifeless and dull (it really seems like Kit isn't even trying to act interested in his scenes..it is like he doesn't care) and Ygritte being feisty and talk about blue balls, sex a thousand times, and other stuff. Rose Leslie may be good looking and a decent actress, but these scenes with her have SO much other time to happen. Ygritte will be around all of next season and most likely 3/4th of season 4..and with Jon that entire time.

How is her banter with Jon Snow and him being a complete and utter clueless moron a good change to make? I don't even care if Qhorin gives Jon his command, it will not be the same great moment like in the novel for me personally. I loved Jon's chapters in ACOK, and was so pumped to see him and the rangers desperately trying to get back to the Fist, with hope fading with every passing moment. This would have much such good television and fit with the tone of the series so much more. Instead we get wasted time with Jon and Ygritte, that leads to this contrived capture that is sure to lead to more plot changes and time added to this new Jon storyline in the next few episodes.

Sorry for that long rant..but obviously I don't like one of my favorite storylines changed so much!

On other notes: Where in the world is Stannis and Davos? They have been MIA for so long and were just briefly mentioned in passing by Tyrion. Along with that, I really am coming to believe the chain has been removed from the show and that as some posters have mentioned, the great buildup to the battle of the blackwater is really just suffering in general.

Where is Varys?

Why has Quiathe only talked to Jorah and not Dany?

Why on earth did they kill IRRI and Jiqhui (does anyone even know when or how she died? perhaps I missed something earlier this year..) It is Known is gone forever now... :(

Jaime killing Alton is a strange choice, but I am going to be patient with this storyline because next season it should be amazing.

Talisa being sassy again is just annoying. I did love Roose's look at Robb..you could tell he was thinking this kid is a chump.

Decent episode though overall I suppose..as hk47 said..lots of nitpicks..but I still enjoyed it for the most part.

[StarkWard]

very minor nitpick here: sansa and shae are going to flip a mattress by lifting both sides of it simultaneously. really curious to see what their next move would have been if the hound hadnt showed up

I think they were supposed to throw it in the hearth. That was was Book Sansa tried to do, anyway.

[Ser Buggerthat]

there is one thing which originates from the changes they made for the show, the making the children older than in the books, so Sansa is more like a 15-16 year old girl now in the show - quite aged for the firs moonblood i guess

[Marion]

I'm thinking like many here, in the beginning chapters of this second season, had been good despite the changes that had suffered, but in this last, the series has come to suffer so many changes that may not be for good, we need to see the others to know

among the things that I do not liked, is the death of most of the Dothraki, have left alone Daenerys

the Robb's scene where he cut the Karstark's head was passed to Theon

Jaime killing Cleos Frey

the changes to Jeyne Westerling and her family

Jojen and Mera Reed didn't appear

the same for Ramsay Bolton

[Evamitchelle]

Yes, but as a few pointed out, Jaime wouldn't admit it to Robb earlier in the season. So why is he so chatty now?

Well I thought the earlier Robb scene was terrible to be honest. In that scene he's basically having a pissing contest with Jaime, just to make sure that the viewers understand that Robb is now a Badass. It's just another change that doesn't make much sense. Overall I don't think subtlety is the writers strong points, like when Joffrey torture whores to show us that he is EVIL. It was pretty obvious already, what with him having Sansa stripped and beaten in the same episode.

[boojam]

there is one thing which originates from the changes they made for the show, the making the children older than in the books, so Sansa is more like a 15-16 year old girl now in the show - quite aged for the firs moonblood i guess

For all those hung up on the differences between the ages in the books and show write on the blackboard 100 times:

"The ages in HBO's Game of Thrones have to be different from those in George R R Martin's Song of Ice and Fire, or the producers of the show would have been arrested."

[Evamitchelle]

there is one thing which originates from the changes they made for the show, the making the children older than in the books, so Sansa is more like a 15-16 year old girl now in the show - quite aged for the firs moonblood i guess

Sansa was 13 in the first season, so about 14 now. There is nothing unusual about a girl having her first period at 14. It's also interesting to note that the average age of menarche was a bit higher during the Middle Ages than it is now. In the U.S. the average is about 12.5 years old, but anything between 9-16 is considered normal.

[Natmus]

One more general nitpick is the lack of Freys in the storyline. In the books Freys are mentioned in all areas of conflict: With Robb in the west, helping Edmure defending the Riverlands and they are also part of the Stark forces at Harrenhal. In the books there are no doubt that they are a significant part of Robb's forces. That is why, in the books, we are in no doubt that the loss of the Frey is so serious.

In the show they have hardly been mentioned, and the short sequence at the Twins in the first season is long forgotten by most viewers by now.

So I am unsure about how the show will convey the repurcussions of Robb marrying Nurse-girl, and how to get things moving towards the RW, unless they will hurridly introduce a lot of new characters and families in season 3. To me it seems like they are under-playing the long-term storyline for instead focusing solely on the short-term items. Which, I think, will make season 3 too disconnected to the current season.

[SerMixalot]

When did Shae and Sansa become such awesome buddies? Why would Shae even care that Sansa got her period let alone be willing to put a knife to someone's throat to keep them from telling the queen?

when it was decided to give so many characters new and confusing motivations?

[Bambi]

Tywin Lannister was laughing and smiling, tune in for episode 8 where he will give Arya a piggy-back ride around Harrenhall

Actually in the books Tywin Lannister is painted as a man who has never been seen smiling by anyone before. Charles Dance's Tywin is pretty much close to book-Tywin. He let out a smirk, actually a smirk really close to the one described in the books: threatening, wof-like. It was good acting and not bad writing.

[sp1um]

- I think they're dropping Jamies redemption arc. There's no sight of the mummers anyways.

I hope not! That's the best part of Jaime's story. Maybe they'll have his hand cut by the BwB guys. I would've liked to see the mummers though.

[Buckwheat]

1.This:

The Northern Army has 1 nurse. No Maesters. No Healers. One random nurse, to tend to thousands of men. Seriously?

And this nurse can randomly walk into the King's tent and interrupt the conversation with Roose. Really? Plus, the King happily invites her with him to some random negotioations.

2. Where is Ghost?

3. Yellow Fork, what is this?

4. And Tywin is getting too friendly with Arya. Their scenes are still fun, but Arya sould be more clever and watch what she is saying.

5. WAY too much blood on Sansa's bed. Nobody stabbed her, people. She is not dying.

6. What was the Hound doing in her bedroom, I have no idea. I do not believe that is was him who turned her in (I think it was the other handmaid), but his presence was just random.

[CrypticWeirwood]

Hated hated hated Jaime killing Alton. Stupid. Ruined a perfect scene otherwise.

I really loved the comment:

• Kingslayer Y U kill Jon-Boy Alton?
  

[CrypticWeirwood]

3. Yellow Fork, what is this?

Just atypical male-pattern color-blindness acting up again.

[Raksha the Demon]

1.This:

And this nurse can randomly walk into the King's tent and interrupt the conversation with Roose. Really? Plus, the King happily invites her with him to some random negotioations.

2. Where is Ghost?

3. Yellow Fork, what is this?

4. And Tywin is getting too friendly with Arya. Their scenes are still fun, but Arya sould be more clever and watch what she is saying.

5. WAY too much blood on Sansa's bed. Nobody stabbed her, people. She is not dying.

6. What was the Hound doing in her bedroom, I have no idea. I do not believe that is was him who turned her in (I think it was the other handmaid), but his presence was just random.

The only reasons I can think of for the Hound to be in Sansa's bedroom before the Battle of the Blackwater...

The fleeing maid and Shae left the door wide open. Sandor passes by and sees Sansa standing inside, and blood on the mattress, and wonders if there's a bleeding assassin under the bed, or if Sansa was hurt? He goes in to investigate and figures out what happened, through Sansa's embarrassment (and the quickly shown) blood on the back of her dress. For once, Sandor shuts up; because 'Flowering' is just too girly for a big tough guy to discuss.

Sandor is not a squealer; it makes no sense that he'd go tell on Sansa to the Queen, or anyone.

[Raksha the Demon]

:agree:

Good job, you've nailed every problem there is with the way they're portraying characters.

I fully enjoyed this episode. I found the Theon scenes awesome (Peter, you've got some competition, cause Alfie is fantastic). Quarth didn't really bother me, though Dany is getting bossier and louder, thus more annoying (who would have thought that possible)

But while entertainment-wise this episode was great, I can't fail to think that they're changing the characters.

Why are they so intent on making Cersei the good guy? And with Jaime killing his cousin so coldly, it's going to be hard to move on with his redemption. Non-readers linger on first impressions, and after this scene I think they'll hate Jaime even more. And I am annoyed because he ought to be liked, because he's awesome.

On a more positive tone: Sansa's flowering was nice

Theon's story is moving ahead brilliantly

Iain Glenn is so handsome. (he's actually made me a Dany/Jorah shipper!!!)

Actress playing Ygritte is really good. (though all that talk about sex and bones and naked girls, was too long.. There are no actual sex scenes and they're trying to replace them by talking about them for more than 5 minutes, when we haven't see Stannis in 5 episodes???)

Actually, I'd rather have five minutes of sexual banter during the Jon & Ygritte Northern Comedy Hour than five minutes of sexposition, or sex, or nekkid Roz. It was rather amusing; At least more amusing than watching Roz cavort with a friend while Littlefinger reveals his innermost motivations.

I don't recognize this Cersei. TV-Cersei is a numbed, subdued, mostly declawed lioness who we're supposed to pity; just a sad, struggling mother. Please. I did like the scene between them because the actors made it work well; but that's not the real Cersei. And even TV-Cersei seems to have forgot that last episode she was making chilly threats against Tyrion because he sent Myrcella away.

I even liked Dany-in-Qarth. Or maybe I was distracted by the glorious cheekbones of Iain Glen; but I thought Dany was less shrill than usual, and believable in her dialogue with Jorah; especially when she gives him a scary blood-of-the-dragon look and tells him to find her dragons. She should have her dragons snatched more often. The episode showed just how totally out of her league Dany is at the moment; lording it over a rag-tag remnant of a khalasar is not the same as impressing anyone in a city as old and sophisticated as is Qarth; at least while her dragons are so young.

Alfie Allen's done a great job this season....

A double-direwolf sighting - three seconds of Summer and Shaggydog trotting after their boys. And yet another Roz-free episode, hooray!