Finding bits of LOTR influences in ASOIAF

[Stannis Eats No Peaches]

Clearly I need to read the Silmarillion again.

[TomWillcox]

No friggin' way??!!! I thought Tolkien made it up. Ugh. Sorry

Hey, better than me, I thought George Martin made it up.

[StarkWolf]

Hey, better than me, I thought George Martin made it up.

Lol

I can't believe it's in the dictionary, even if it does go under archaic.

[Ygrain]

You know, I think Nirnaeth Arnoediad is the only thing in literature which has made me angrier than the Red Wedding.

And the betrayal of Finrod by his own people, at the behest of the sons of Fëanor.

I don't think that abandoning your son is *a happy everafter life*

eheh as you may have noticed, I don't exactly recall her life but I know that she survived and went back to Valinor, her people survived and lived on, inhabitting southern (relatively to Beleriand) Middle-earth and Morgoth was defeated, so yeah it wasn't that bad!

Actually, she and Tuor went sailing West and were never heard about afterwards. Ëarrendil was the first and only to reach Valinor, so I don't think there was happy ever after (unless she returned from Mandos).

As for her people, many were slaughtered by the sons of Fëanor in an attempt to regain the Silmaril.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Jon's Queen Consort, I like you.

Right back at you sir! Your post in #76 was one of my forum's fav.

Actually, she and Tuor went sailing West and were never heard about afterwards. Ëarrendil was the first and only to reach Valinor, so I don't think there was happy ever after (unless she returned from Mandos).

As for her people, many were slaughtered by the sons of Fëanor in an attempt to regain the Silmaril.

Actually at the end they arrived in Valinor and after special will of Iluvatar Tuor was counted as an Elf.

[Ygrain]

Right back at you sir! Your post in #76 was one of my forum's fav.

Actually at the end they arrived in Valinor and after special will of Iluvatar Tuor was counted as an Elf.

??Where does this come from? In Silmarillion there's only

"With Idril Celebrindal,he set sail into the sunset and the West, and came no more into any tale or song. But in after days it was sung that Tuor alone of mortal Men was numbered among the elder race, and was joined with the Noldor, whom he loved; and his fate is sundered from the fate of Men."

[Winterz]

As for her people, many were slaughtered by the sons of Fëanor in an attempt to regain the Silmaril.

After further reading, nevermind....

[Groat]

This has probably said, and I haven't read Tolkien in years so I'm probably wrong, but doesn't the hobbit end with what is known as The Battle of The 5 Armies. Reminds me of The War of 5 Kings.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

??Where does this come from? In Silmarillion there's only

"With Idril Celebrindal,he set sail into the sunset and the West, and came no more into any tale or song. But in after days it was sung that Tuor alone of mortal Men was numbered among the elder race, and was joined with the Noldor, whom he loved; and his fate is sundered from the fate of Men."

The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien.

There it was mentioned that Iluvatar himself made an exception for Tuor and included him as an Elf

edit: Sorry I don't have the book right now once I will take it back I will write the quote

[Jon's Queen Consort]

At the end of Dagor Bragollach, Fingolfin son of Finwe and the High King of the Noldor and King of the North after seing that the battle was lost rode Rochallor and with Ringil (which looked like ice) in his hand he chalenged Morgoth to single combat. Fingolfin's challenge always reminded me of Wild Wolf's "Come out and die" to Rhaegar.

[Fire Eater]

In LOTR, the Ban of the Valar prohibited men from sailing too far West of Numenor. The fleet that sailed to Numenor never returned, like the fleet Volantis sent to reclaim Valyria, or Brandon the SHipwright sailing west and never returning.

[Winterz]

Well that is a bit different. It's pretty normal that if you go and travel into never-before-explored lands, you may never return. Now, in LOTR the Gods themselves intervened and crushed not only the fleet but their entire homeland. While Volantis' fleet was lost for unknown reasons we have little reasons to believe the gods intervened there. ASOIAF relies more on magic than on celestial beings.

[TomWillcox]

I reckon Riverrun is a nod to the Middle Earth watercourse 'River Running'.

And on a more broad spectrum, one of the main problems in LOTR is that all of the 'good' races, Dwarves, Elves, Men, Ents, etc. are prevented from mounting a more cohesive and effective resistance to the real evil of Sauron and his servants by their daft prejudices and internal conflicts, which is not too dissimilar to how everyone in Westeros is far too busy fighting a bloody, bitter, futile civil war rather than face the evil ice demons and their undead thralls. Plus you have the Dunedain, or Rangers of the North, who do a rather unappreciated job of defending people from the evil lurking in the north, back from when the Witch-King of Angmar fought the Northern Kingdom.

[Dornishman'sWife'sHusband]

Feanor stole the mightest fleet in history and sailed his people to Middle Earth. Nymeria commanded 10,000 ships, likely the largest fleet in history, and sailed her people to Westeros. Both then burned their ships to prevent their people from ever returning to their paradisal homeland.

[xSilence]

This has probably said, and I haven't read Tolkien in years so I'm probably wrong, but doesn't the hobbit end with what is known as The Battle of The 5 Armies. Reminds me of The War of 5 Kings.

Yep, you're right and the battle of 5 armies end with a death of a king.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Ok I will say something that maybe it's too stupid but:

I think it was mentioned in Silmarillion that the Orcs were made by Elves who Melkor captured after the Awakening of the Elves (Elves that twere turned into Orcs) or that they were made when Melkor captured them when Orome appeared and some of them were scared and left the others.

Wights were made when people died.

I can see some similarities. I am right or wrong?

[King of Winters]

Ok I will say something that maybe it's too stupid but:

I think it was mentioned in Silmarillion that the Orcs were made by Elves who Melkor captured after the Awakening of the Elves (Elves that twere turned into Orcs) or that they were made when Melkor captured them when Orome appeared and some of them were scared and left the others.

Wights were made when people died.

I can see some similarities. I am right or wrong?

Or it could do with something about The Others being related to the COTF and The Others being turned by some other force

[Ygrain]

Ok I will say something that maybe it's too stupid but:

I think it was mentioned in Silmarillion that the Orcs were made by Elves who Melkor captured after the Awakening of the Elves (Elves that twere turned into Orcs) or that they were made when Melkor captured them when Orome appeared and some of them were scared and left the others.

Wights were made when people died.

I can see some similarities. I am right or wrong?

The wights remind more of the traditional zombies, IMHO. But, one has to wonder how Others reproduce and what they did with Kraster's sons, as one of the older wives says "our sons will come for us".

[Jon's Queen Consort]

The wights remind more of the traditional zombies, IMHO. But, one has to wonder how Others reproduce and what they did with Kraster's sons, as one of the older wives says "our sons will come for us".

I agree. on the zombie but orcs remind me of zombies too :dunno:

I was thinking more like: leaving life (dying and leaving the other Elves(and the Valar) running alone you turn into death/monster yourself (btw I don't mean you you I mean Elf/proWight you.)

I am most likely wrong.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

(JRRTolkien)All that is gold does not glitter,

Starkcentric: They are one of the oldest and more beloved families but they don't glitter.

Joncentric: Jon is the King but he doen't have the royal "glitter:

Not all those who wander are lost;

Starkcentric: Starks after GoT (Arya (KL,RL,BR) Sansa (KL,EY) Bran (WF,BTW) Rickon (WF, SK)

Joncentric: Jon has wondered but he will find his way to his home/throne

The old that is strong does not wither,

Starkcentric: Although they are scattered they still know who they are.

Joncentric: Jon after all things that have happen to him in his heart is still Ned's son

Deep roots are not reached by the frost.

Starkcentric:No matter how much they are fighted and hunted down, they haven't die

Joncentric:Although he had many reasons and opportunities Jon's roots (honor, ideals) haven't "wither" from "bad influences"

From the ashes a fire shall be woken,

Starkcentric: GNC

Joncentric: Jon's ressuraction as AAR

A light from the shadows shall spring;

Starkcentric: A Stark in WF again

Joncentric: Jon as AAR fighting the Others

Renewed shall be blade that was broken,

Starkcentric: Ice

Joncentric: LB (I believe that NW is LB)

The crownless again shall be king.

Starkcentric: A Stark as Warden of the North again

Joncentric: Jon