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Ran

[Pre-ADwD Spoilers] Jon 1

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I think Nymeria eating people was confirmed in ASOS, when Arya in her wolf dream saw Nymeria attacking and feeding on the bloody mummers that were chasing Arya.

What we don't know is if Nymeria is only attacking the people Arya is hostile to like the Freys and the Lannisters, or is randomly attacking people.

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I think Jon will join Dany,or she will join him,when she or he discovers that Jon is Rhaegar`s son.Dany is fire,and Jon is ice.

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as for the karstarks siding with stannis.... spoiler from the second jon chapter....

but in that chapter the uncle of the old lord karstark was trying to sieze control of the karstark lands (ie instead of letting it go to the one surviving son... supposedly survivng son.... in the riverlands) and wanted stannis to rubber stamp that.

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WorldCon 2006 reading of Jon 1 Aug. 25th.

George started out by saying, “I’m going to read a chapter … from the Great Gatsby.†Everyone laughed. Then he went into how he had read half the book at conventions before AFFC came out so he was only going to read old chapters atm.

Here is my very summarized summary of Jon 1

It starts off with a wolf dream. Ghost is running through the night. He thinks of his packmates spread across the land. His black brother is killing a goat (interesting for those that think Rickon is with Howland Reed), Nymeria is howling with a bunch of her cousins in warmer weather. And one is lost and gone (Summer). The moon is talking to him (I forgot the word). Jon wakes up and it is day though in the wolf dreams it is always night. Mormont’s raven lands on Jon’s chest and says that word I forgot a few times. Jon gets a little irritated with the bird. Dolorous Edd comes in and makes a joke about breakfast that I can’t recall. Something to do with prunes.

Stannis’s men have been sleeping with the wildling women, both king’s men and queen’s men and even a few black brothers. It is not known where Tormund is but Jon thinks he will lead a force against the Wall again. Jon starts thinking of burning dead babies and how they have done it. Then burning live babies and how Melisandre wants to do it. Aemon mentioned to Jon that there is power in a king’s blood. Stannis wants to burn Mance and Mance’s son, the son last so he will be a king.

Jon thinks that Bran and Rickon are dead but that their direwolves must have survived. Did some part of his brothers live on in the direwolves? It was a disturbing thought.

Jon is now living in Donal Noye’s modest rooms behind the armory. Noye did not leave much stuff; he mainly loved his work.

Stannis has been riding around the area around the Wall, going to Mole’s Town and down into the Gift. Some stuff we knew before like Iron Emmett being the Master-at-arms. King’s Men are in one corner and queen’s men in another. Ser Godric Giant Slayer challenges Jon. Apparently he killed a giant in the battle at the Wall. Jon says, “I fear I must speak to King Stannis†or something like that and Godric makes fun of him for saying “fear.â€

Jon runs into Sam who has a letter for Aemon. It is from House Crowl (I think) and probably another refusal for Stannis. When Jon asks Sam how his archery is going, Sam says he found a good book on archery. :)

Jon walks into Stannis’ solar and thinks Ygritte was touched by fire but Melisandre was fire and her hair was blood and flame. Stannis is seated behind a table. There is the description (very detailed but we already had it so I took a break). Leara Mormont, ten years old, wrote a letter responding to Stannis saying she only recognizes the King in the North and that is a Stark. At this point, Jon thinks of what Leara would think of Jon, King in the North, with the last name Stark. It is puzzling why Leara wrote the letter because there are older Mormonts who could have written it.

The Karstarks are with Stannis but the Karstarks had no choice. They were rebels to the Iron Throne and betrayed the King in the North.

Some stuff I missed then Melisandre asks where the other kings were when the wildlings attacked the Wall? Jon says they were elsewhere then gives an explanation of why the north won’t fight for him.

Stannis says he needs gold. Jon suggests the Manderlys for that; they are the richest of the Stark bannermen. Melisandre suggests a wildling wife for Wyman. Jon thinks he is too old and fat and has grandchildren. If Val doesn’t like him, she will slit his throat in the night.

Mance has been talking to Stannis. Stannis likes him and respects him but says the man is an oathbreaker to the NW. He cannot let him live or else others will desert.

Stannis asks if Jon will sign the grant. Stannis wants to garrison all the Wall castles. Not only that, Stannis wants to actually give away the castles to his lords and knights, even including Rattleshirt.

The topic of Gilly and the babe comes up. Jon thinks he has to tread carefully. He says he has decided to send away Gilly’s babe as he is weak. Gilly will go with him and Jon will find a wetnurse for Mance’s babe.

Jon says he has given a lot of things to Stannis. Stannis replies that Jon has denied him the castles. Jon responds they were built to defend the Wall.

Winterfell comes up and Jon thinks it says it belongs to Sansa. Stannis asks if Jon is so ready to give up Winterfell to Tyrion Lannister. ïŠ Arnell Karstark, Rickard Karstark’s uncle, has been granted Winterfell by Stannis.

It gets tense and Stannis draws Lightbringer. Jon lays out his proposal. The castles must be garrisoned by the Watch. Stannis says Jon doesn’t have the men. Jon replies, “give me the men.†Stannis scoffs that they won’t take the black. Jon says as long as they obey orders from us it will be fine.

A really cool interchange comes up with Jon ending it by saying, “I have a name – Snow.†Unfortunately I forgot the first part and didn’t write it down. Maybe somebody else remembers.

Alliser Thorne has been complaining about the manner of the choosing. Apparently, it’s that Sam, Jon’s friend, counted the ballots for Maester Aemon.

Stannis says Jon can keep the castles but if any actually fall he will kill Jon and find a new Lord Commander.

Melisandre and Jon walk out together. Melisandre says, “His Grace is growing fond of youâ€, which garnered quite a few laughs. She says Jon may be right about the wildling king. Mel has seen Jon’s face in the flames. She sees him all the time in fact. She speaks to kings long dead in the flames. Jon wants to know when the next attack will come. Melisandre says he has so many enemies. Jon should be afraid of daggers in the dark and naked steel.

As Ran said, she said we stood on the “hinge of the world.†Finally, Jon says he knows … something and Melisandre responds, “You know nothing, Jon Snow."

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Awesome. That does seem a tiny bit different to the earlier readings (before the re-writes). I don't know, a bit more threatening? Or is that just the JT reporting touch at work? :)

The Mormont thing seems a bit weird. Maege is possibly down in Greywater Watch, but I was sure she had other daughters older than Lyra.

(consults AFFC appendix)

Alysane is apparently her next daughter, younger than the slain Dacey and older than Lyra. Wonder what's up with her. Maybe she's married to some other lord (although I'd have thought this would have been mentioned) and thus Lyra is now Maege's heir?

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Alysane is apparently her next daughter, younger than the slain Dacey and older than Lyra. Wonder what's up with her. Maybe she's married to some other lord (although I'd have thought this would have been mentioned) and thus Lyra is now Maege's heir?

Or Alysane is attacking Deepwood Motte and saving the Glovers.

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I thought Alysane might be communicating with Maege at Greywater Watch, preparing for a Stark uprising.

What do people think of Shaggydog eating a goat? I don't know if that was mentioned previously. It sort of rules out Greywater Watch as a hiding place for Rickon.

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What do people think of Shaggydog eating a goat? I don't know if that was mentioned previously. It sort of rules out Greywater Watch as a hiding place for Rickon.

Maybe Shaggydog isn't with Osha and Rickon. Maybe he is in the Wolfwood. Or maybe they haven't arrived at Greywater Watch yet, I would imagine that their journey would be quite slow... a woman and a babe. Also they would have to take a slow/canny approach to Greywater because of the fact Shaggydog (a direwolf) is with them. In fact if they were travelling to Greywater it would make sense if Shaggy wasn't with them.

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What do people think of Shaggydog eating a goat? I don't know if that was mentioned previously. It sort of rules out Greywater Watch as a hiding place for Rickon.

Rickon simply may not have reached Greywater Watch yet, and Shaggydog is therefore merely indulging in some road-side dining.

Aratan

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Maybe Shaggydog isn't with Osha and Rickon.

I kinda doubt that.

Maybe he is in the Wolfwood.

Possible.

Or maybe they haven't arrived at Greywater Watch yet, I would imagine that their journey would be quite slow... a woman and a babe. Also they would have to take a slow/canny approach to Greywater because of the fact Shaggydog (a direwolf) is with them.

I like this theory. After all, ASOS only took a few months and it took the Reed children months to make it to Winterfell.

In fact if they were travelling to Greywater it would make sense if Shaggy wasn't with them.

How so?

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The "Shaggydog eating a goat" thing is new for me. It actually makes me think of the Mountains of the Moon for some reason. Maybe because that's originally where I thought Osha would go, being a wildling.

The fact that he's killing a goat, and not a deer, an elk, or etc, kind of makes me think they are closer to some more civilized place than in the wilds of the North. Perhaps a place where there is no such prey for Shaggy, like in the swamps of the Neck.

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I believe Melisandre said that much magic had been invested in the Wall, and that it was one of the hinges of the world, rather than _the_ hinge. Pretty sure, anyways.

I thought it was pretty interesting, and it was really an excellent chapter. :) George reads very well, especially when reading Godric Farring's challenge to Jon.

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The "long dead kings" bit is a callback to Jon's dream in his third chapter in AGoT (where he's wandering through Winterfell, reaches the crypts, and is compelled to go forward while the kings leave their crypts). I wonder what it all means.

I like this theory. After all, ASOS only took a few months and it took the Reed children months to make it to Winterfell.

Meera says in Bran's first ASoS that the distance to the Wall from Winterfell is longer than the distance to Winterfell from Greywater Watch; it's also clear that the way that they're traveling is particularly slow because they're avoiding the king's road. So I'm not sure it makes sense to assume that Rickon wouldn't have made his way to Greywater Watch--if that's where he was going.

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Ran,

Yeah I think you're right about the hinge thing.

The "long dead kings" bit is a callback to Jon's dream in his third chapter in AGoT (where he's wandering through Winterfell, reaches the crypts, and is compelled to go forward while the kings leave their crypts). I wonder what it all means.

Nice one. I thought maybe she was referring to past Targaryen kings and knew of Jon's heritage, thereby putting Jon in danger. I like this one more.

Meera says in Bran's first ASoS that the distance to the Wall from Winterfell is longer than the distance to Winterfell from Greywater Watch; it's also clear that the way that they're traveling is particularly slow because they're avoiding the king's road. So I'm not sure it makes sense to assume that Rickon wouldn't have made his way to Greywater Watch--if that's where he was going.

Ah, true.

I don't think there are goats in the Neck. Just my opinion, it seems like Shaggydog would be hunting lizard-lions if they were there.

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Thanks for the summary, JT. So Melisandre sees Jon in the flames all the time, eh? I wonder what conclusions she'll draw from that. And what can those "kings long dead" be telling her?

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My point was that Shaggy is a DIREWOLF and if they want to travel to Greywater incognito then they will have to travel subtly by night because Shaggy is going to be noticable.

Have I said before how much I adore Melisandre?

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Stannis’s men have been sleeping with the wildling women, both king’s men and queen’s men and even a few black brothers.

Aren't all the wildlings locked up in stockades? It seems a bit sinister for soldiers, especially Stannis' s soldiers, slipping into the stockade now and then.

Some stuff we knew before like Iron Emmett being the Master-at-arms.

Does Jon pass Emmett taking on the recruits?

A really cool interchange comes up with Jon ending it by saying, “I have a name – Snow.†Unfortunately I forgot the first part and didn’t write it down. Maybe somebody else remembers.

Does this have to do with Stannis wanting to make Jon a Stark?

Overall, this chapter has become more dark with the new details. The line about the dead babies and the live babies is a startling image... and Mel's warnings about 'daggers in the dark' deeply foreboding.

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Awesome. That does seem a tiny bit different to the earlier readings (before the re-writes). I don't know, a bit more threatening? Or is that just the JT reporting touch at work? :)

The Mormont thing seems a bit weird. Maege is possibly down in Greywater Watch, but I was sure she had other daughters older than Lyra.

(consults AFFC appendix)

Alysane is apparently her next daughter, younger than the slain Dacey and older than Lyra. Wonder what's up with her. Maybe she's married to some other lord (although I'd have thought this would have been mentioned) and thus Lyra is now Maege's heir?

I don't really believe it but maybe Lyra is signing the letters to give Maege and Alysanne plausible deniabilty later on. They can claim that they didn't know what she said and that Lyra's word don't represent the Mormonts since she's neither ruler nor heir.

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Wasn't it mentioned somewhere that Maege had taken several of her children to war, and that Dacey was just the oldest of them? That would explain why a ten-year old answered Stannis's letter - she was too young to go along with her older siblings.

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Thanks for the summary, JT. So Melisandre sees Jon in the flames all the time, eh? I wonder what conclusions she'll draw from that.

C'mon! That Mel is seeing Jon in the flames doesn't really say anything. Owen the Oaf could make that prediction, without any flames or blood sacrifices! The Others are coming in force and Jon's the leader of the group of soldiers that will face them. Of course he'll be heavily involved in the upcomming battle.

This prediction is on the level of Mel's "divine knowledge" that more "false" kings will come after Joff's death.

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