Comics IX - Cheerleader Number Nine

[red snow]

I think turning a blind eye to it is the best course. Have the destruction but don't draw all the crushed bodies in its wake. By the same token don't go out of your way trying to pretend the heroes have ensured that no-one can get hurt. If it's a comic aimed at adults then they can have at it.

I'd be interested to hear what X-factor is like. I enjoy the idea but I'm not convinced that PAD is the best guy to handle it. If it had been Joe Casey (wildcats 3.0) handling it I'd have been all over it.

RE Avengers world. Does it feel like the third avengers book in terms of new/avengers? Or is it more disposable like Avengers AI, uncanny avengers (which is good but can be read separately) and all the other avengery books?

[Sci-2]

RE Avengers world. Does it feel like the third avengers book in terms of new/avengers? Or is it more disposable like Avengers AI, uncanny avengers (which is good but can be read separately) and all the other avengery books?

I'm honestly not sure. Some people think it's replacing the double shipping, others say (via Brevoort apparently) that Hickman's Avengers will be double shipping again before 2014 is over.

[Ouroboros]

RE Avengers world. Does it feel like the third avengers book in terms of new/avengers? Or is it more disposable like Avengers AI, uncanny avengers (which is good but can be read separately) and all the other avengery books?

It's very directly tied into the Avengers/New Avengers stuff, at least it seems to be dealing with the fall out of the genesis bombs or whatever they were pretty directly, as well as that AIM plot line. But can we can it with this 'disposable/important' divide? I hate that event driven mindset fans propagate. Nothing Hickman has written is any more or less 'important' than what Remender or Humphries has written, it just runs across three books instead of one. It's the very idea that one book is 'disposable', but another book is 'important' that sees terrible stuff like the majority of the X-Men line make sales, while stuff like X-Men:Legacy and Superior Foes - as critically acclaimed as they all are - struggle to make sales.

We as consumers have a responsibility not to buy into this corporate nonsense. A good story is a good story, fuck the status quo.

[Sci-2]

To be fair I think Red Snow is specifically asking if Avengers World is disposable with respect to Hickman's central story.

Especially since he's a Superior Foes and Hawkeye fan.

[Nictarion]

but another book is 'important' that sees terrible stuff like the majority of the X-Men line make sales, while stuff like X-Men:Legacy and Superior Foes - as critically acclaimed as they all are - struggle to make sales.

I seem to be in the minority in this thread usually, but I really like what Bends Is doing with his X-Men titles. Especially All New X-Men, which for the most part has been great imo.

I didn't really care for X-Men Legacy. I gave up on it a while ago.

[red snow]

To be fair I think Red Snow is specifically asking if Avengers World is disposable with respect to Hickman's central story.

Especially since he's a Superior Foes and Hawkeye fan.

Yeah, I actually hate to read a bunch of books to get one story and for events to keep crashing into the middle of them. I was just wondering whether it's part of Hickman's central story. I felt like reading New/Avengers complemeted each other quite well and that I didn't need to read any of the other Avengers books. If I can still read just New and Avengers then I'll stick with that. It does essentially sound like an expansion on the premise of Avengers so the idea it's just keeping the schedule going sounds about right.

So it's only more important in terms of getting the story. Didn't mean to suggest they were better books than the ones that aren't tied in.

[Lady Octarina]

Avengers World only exists because Hickman can't write cosmic events and characters with actual personalities and relationships at the same time. In that sense, it's what Hickmanvengers was supposed to be, but isn't; he's not even sticking around in this book, is he? Anyway, technically, it's better than the other book, but this cast is so uninteresting that it really isn't worth spending your money on this.

All-New X-Factor was a really solid first issue. I loved the team interactions so far (yeah, everyone on each others' necks in exactly the kind of dynamic I enjoy in my X-books, plus the pretty solid possibility that Gambit and Polaris will be a thing soon), and the art is great; the colors, even better. I do love how these teams that are supposed to be all about their public image insist on inviting Magneto's [very unstable] children to the party. What sucks is that, apparently, Quicksilver is not sticking around for long (though one can always hope he'll appear on both books; if Wolverine can do it, logic says that would be even easier for a speedster). It's the kind of thing that makes it hard to understand how people can believe Marvel when they say the MCU has zero influence of the comics, or that they care equally about their Avengers and X-Men properties.

Wolverine #13 was the best final issue I have seen in a while. Sabretooth's monologue was just amazing, and those last twopages were nothing but heartbreaking. Still, not even this is enough to make me excited about the relaunch. I might read issues 1 and 2 to see how Cornell wraps up some loose ends, but everything else about it sounds as uninteresting as all the previous Wolverine solo series.

Young Avengers #15 was a great example of what a last issue shouldn't be like. I’m still not satisfied with how Tommy was (mis)used in this series, and as amusing as his double return was, no, that’s not a good enough explanation. And Gillen pulled a Rowling, going a bit further, of course, with his everyone-but-Kate-maybe is queer, how nice, and not caring enough to actually explore how that works with the characters. It felt like fanservice, something this series has been full of from the start. It can’t be a good thing when all you feel when a book has ended is relief; the only characters that received enough attention were Loki and Billy, maybe Hulkling. But I did laugh when I noticed how McKelvie avoided drawing both Tommy and Noh-Varr in the same panels, though, always making one have his back turned when the other was facing us lol I guess I'm just tired of Gillen, a writer I used to enjoy until a couple years ago.

The Point One only managed to get me excited about Silver Surfer (just a few pages were better than any whole issue this week), and, surprisingly, the new Ms. Marvel series. I'm completely sold on Kamala Khan after that one.

Black Widow #1 was another surprise. I'm not a fan of the character, so I wasn't even going to buy the series, but changed my mind at the last minute and decided to check it out. It's really good, and the art is amazing, though I'm not sold on this atonement storyline. And I can't say I see why she has to look like Scarlett Johanson in this, and certainly hope this trend doesn't spread to other characters (it's bad enough it's already the case with Loki...). I'll read issue 2, but for now, while it's a good book, I'm not sure it's my thing, though I'd like to support it at least so that they would give more female characters their solo series.

Revolutionary War: Alpha made me feel nostalgic I don't even know why, and wish Captain Britain were given his own book again. Or maybe one about the Braddock Academy, that would be fun. It also reminded me of how much I love and hate Pete Wisdom.

[Sci-2]

Avengers World only exists because Hickman can't write cosmic events and characters with actual personalities and relationships at the same time.

Cosmic event with characterization was exactly what is FF run was. Heck, that's kind of what Manhattan Projects is. Even Red Wing and even Red Mass for Mars could be billed as cosmic stories with characterization. Before issue one of Avengers came out Hickman said Avengers was plot driven and New Avengers was character driven, so I don't get why people keep complaining about what Hickman can't do as opposed to what he doesn't want to do.

He clearly has no interest in whatever people are talking about when they say "characterization", which I'm hoping isn't Bendis's breakfast table quips at the mansion.

[Winterfell is Burning]

From the UXM #16 preview, looks like Magneto is going evil again, which is just awesome...said no one. Although it's possible is just a dream sequence.

[Ouroboros]

Yeah, I actually hate to read a bunch of books to get one story and for events to keep crashing into the middle of them. I was just wondering whether it's part of Hickman's central story. I felt like reading New/Avengers complemeted each other quite well and that I didn't need to read any of the other Avengers books. If I can still read just New and Avengers then I'll stick with that. It does essentially sound like an expansion on the premise of Avengers so the idea it's just keeping the schedule going sounds about right.

So it's only more important in terms of getting the story. Didn't mean to suggest they were better books than the ones that aren't tied in.

Sorry if I cam off a bit harsh. Just came off a similar conversation elsewhere about 'important books' and forgot to check my baggage at the door.

[red snow]

Sorry if I cam off a bit harsh. Just came off a similar conversation elsewhere about 'important books' and forgot to check my baggage at the door.

We're on the same page. Marvel and DCs pandering to folks who want "books that count" is a serious issue and makes it virtually impossible for them to put out interesting books that can maintain sales. Luckily we have the other publishers for that and are left to enjoy books like Hawkeye and Superior foes while they last. I'm also banging on about dropping Marvel books as soon as they crossover into something. Avengers is rare in that I actually read both books although I've fallen behind because of the big event.

I also love the irony of Marvel and DC always promising their events will mean things will never be the same whereas what they mean is "until we return things back to the status quo anywhere between 2 months and 5 years.

All-New X-Factor was a really solid first issue. I loved the team interactions so far (yeah, everyone on each others' necks in exactly the kind of dynamic I enjoy in my X-books, plus the pretty solid possibility that Gambit and Polaris will be a thing soon), and the art is great; the colors, even better. I do love how these teams that are supposed to be all about their public image insist on inviting Magneto's [very unstable] children to the party. What sucks is that, apparently, Quicksilver is not sticking around for long (though one can always hope he'll appear on both books; if Wolverine can do it, logic says that would be even easier for a speedster). It's the kind of thing that makes it hard to understand how people can believe Marvel when they say the MCU has zero influence of the comics, or that they care equally about their Avengers and X-Men properties.

This seems to be commonplace for PAD books as his X-factor run was constantly being undermined by editorial stealing his characters to throw into higher profile books. I guess Quicksilver can be in both books as long as PAD doesn't mind the character being handled completely different in an Avengers book for when the film comes out.

I guess it wont be long until they retcon out the fact that Magneto is their father as that won't do with the film coming out.

[Lady Octarina]

I guess it wont be long until they retcon out the fact that Magneto is their father as that won't do with the film coming out.

Don't even joke about that! :stillsick:

Cosmic event with characterization was exactly what is FF run was. Heck, that's kind of what Manhattan Projects is. Even Red Wing and even Red Mass for Mars could be billed as cosmic stories with characterization. Before issue one of Avengers came out Hickman said Avengers was plot driven and New Avengers was character driven, so I don't get why people keep complaining about what Hickman can't do as opposed to what he doesn't want to do.

He clearly has no interest in whatever people are talking about when they say "characterization", which I'm hoping isn't Bendis's breakfast table quips at the mansion.

To be fair, I haven't read those interviews and wasn't aware that that's what he expressed about the books. On the other hand, he is doing a really bad job at a character driven book for anyone not called T'Challa, Namor or Tony so far. And the only other Hickman book I've read at this point were the first two issues of God is Dead, which, as any of you might imagine, didn't make me warm up to the guy at all.

From the UXM #16 preview, looks like Magneto is going evil again, which is just awesome...said no one. Although it's possible is just a dream sequence.

It's good to see Magneto truly acting like Magneto in that book, actually. And, come on, those brats were celebrating Scott Summers as the greatest mutant hero or whatever; in old Mag's place I would do the same. It's just ridiculous how they came up with the whole "broken powers" thing and yet he seems to have enough control over magnetism to easily assemble his helmet piece by piece on his big bald head (someone get rid of that, please).

I think this is his last issue in Uncanny, isn't it?

[red snow]

Image expo is overwhwlming me with interesting new books. Vertigo is dead, long live Image! Although I do wonder how long they can keep releasing so many books successfully and I guess there will be more stinkers as time goes by. On the other hand it's probably the most healthy thing that has happened to American comics in a long time.

Snyder and Jock on a horror book - sold

Remender and Tochhinni - not entirely sold but I'm left wondering how the art can be by the same person who drew that arc in X-force

Bill Willingham and Barry Kitson on Restoration - guess we know one of the reasons why Fables is wrapping up

Brandon Graham doing an artist driven Fantasy series. So a fantasy version of Prophet - will check that out.

New books from Ted Mckeever and Fraction. I'm a bit meh about. Sounds like more of Fractions crazy SF

Deconnick's "bitch planet" - sounds interesting at least.

Nick Spencer has three books. The afterlife one has an interesting concept but the other two don't sound spectacular yet.

There's a bunch of others as well.

Maybe the most interesting is that Brubaker and Phillips have signed a 5 year deal to do whatever they want with Image. Didn't realise "Fatale" was a finite series but good to hear they've got something else lined up. Surprised to hear that he's bringing "sleeper" over to Image. It would be cool if he could revisit that world and just omit the Wildstorm characters.

[salinea]

From the UXM #16 preview, looks like Magneto is going evil again, which is just awesome...said no one. Although it's possible is just a dream sequence.

Oh, evil!Magneto has its fan. They just have no taste.

It's just a preview. Let's wait & see. Probably will lead to the solo in some fashion.

[salinea]

I'd be interested to hear what X-factor is like. I enjoy the idea but I'm not convinced that PAD is the best guy to handle it. If it had been Joe Casey (wildcats 3.0) handling it I'd have been all over it.

Looks good, but more as a fun book with great character interplay so far than as a serious, thematical exploration if that's what you're hoping for.

[Sci-2]

Image expo is overwhwlming me with interesting new books. Vertigo is dead, long live Image!

Yeah if Vertigo wants to survive it's gonna have to go really alternative and/or provide more for creators. I'm guessing a lot of guys are thinking if a hack like Millar can make in Hollywood they should be shopping their own properties too.

Thanks for the break down of what's coming out by the way. Interesting to see Fraction and KSD both putting out more books. Wonder how long either will stay at Marvel...maybe until Cassanova, Sex Criminals, or Pretty Deadly gets picked up for a treatment?

And the only other Hickman book I've read at this point were the first two issues of God is Dead, which, as any of you might imagine, didn't make me warm up to the guy at all.

I couldn't even get through 4chan leaking that terrible, stereotypical garbage.

To be fair Hickman didn't write the dialogue. But he did script everything so that's not saying much. I can't help but wonder if there was a Quesada-Morrison type rift there when Hickman gave a fuck you to Avatar part way through the project.

[Little Valkyrie]

Cosmic event with characterization was exactly what is FF run was. Heck, that's kind of what Manhattan Projects is. Even Red Wing and even Red Mass for Mars could be billed as cosmic stories with characterization. Before issue one of Avengers came out Hickman said Avengers was plot driven and New Avengers was character driven, so I don't get why people keep complaining about what Hickman can't do as opposed to what he doesn't want to do.

He clearly has no interest in whatever people are talking about when they say "characterization", which I'm hoping isn't Bendis's breakfast table quips at the mansion.

Well, there's "plot-driven" that you can do and yet still have the sense that it needed to be these particular characters doing these particular things for reasons beyond that of just vague power sets. I dunno why he's falling down so hard on that front. Or maybe dialogue, little touches that show reactions to things that should tell us something about personalities. Not everyone on the Avengers is a hard-core professional Stoic (caps intended), but they come across that way.

I am seriously annoyed, now, by Tom Taylor giving us Lois back in E2. That's supposed to be the JSA book, dammit, who are all these new characters I don't care about? When will we get off of Namek?

I've also been backreading older Wildstorm for fun. So much 90s hair, so much. Also funny to see that Joe Casey's giant ego hasn't changed any, with the back notes to Mr. Majestic.

[red snow]

Yeah if Vertigo wants to survive it's gonna have to go really alternative and/or provide more for creators. I'm guessing a lot of guys are thinking if a hack like Millar can make in Hollywood they should be shopping their own properties too.

Thanks for the break down of what's coming out by the way. Interesting to see Fraction and KSD both putting out more books. Wonder how long either will stay at Marvel...maybe until Cassanova, Sex Criminals, or Pretty Deadly gets picked up for a treatment?

To be honest Vertigo is little different from Marvel's Icon imprint these days with the exception of all the older properties eg Sandman that they still own. I can't see why any writer would work with Vertigo now unless it was part of a golden handshake for writing DC comics (which is essentially what Icon was). The thing is with Image wanting to publish anything by established comic creators where creator deals are so much better, they'd be foolish to go to Vertigo or Icon. Image at least heavily promotes the new comics (vertigo does a little bit of promotion, Icon none).

I think there's a simple reason why the likes of Fraction and Deconnick will always write at least one MArvel title - money. From what I can gather the image titles have to sell a lot to make any money. they probably need to be picked up as a movie/tv show to make any serious cash and from what I can tell there still aren't that many comic creators at Image that can do that. I think it's also pretty common for the writer to make sure the artist gets any profit as the artist can usually only draw one book, the writer can usually do a lot more. As soon as the likes of Fraction and co have movie deals or their books sell enough for them to make a decent living off it, I'm sure they will ditch Marvel quite happily,

I still wonder where the likes of Brubaker and Rucka make a living. Their image titles don't seem to sell that well but I think both of them work outside comics and also have relatively healthy back issue sales.

[Nephrite]

Alan Moore takes the high road.

Man, walls and walls of words and so little has been said. He really is like a 4chan user. Empty buzzwords and plenty of bile with little else.

[Sci-2]

Alan Moore takes the high road.

Man, walls and walls of words and so little has been said. He really is like a 4chan user. Empty buzzwords and plenty of bile with little else.

Jesus that's long.

I sorta see what he's saying, but this idea that the Golliwog is okay b/c he took the black face character and made it come from a dark matter universe...feels like he's stretching it.

eta: I'd didn't even get to the part about the slut shaming film yet.