Comics IX - Cheerleader Number Nine

[DaveSumm]

I visited Forbidden Planet in London the other day (and GOD it's awesome, how have I not been before?) which has kindled an interest in getting into comics. I thought I'd start with the big hitters, your Batmans and your Supermans. So I've started looking into where the hell the continuity's at these days; the last time I looked into such things, I read up on how the DC continuity was explained away with multiple universes, which became confusing so they collapsed them all in the Crises on Infinite Earths in the 80's. Okay. So now superheroes had new origin stories. I believe Superman's was in Man of Steel. But then about 7 or 8 years back I bought Birthright, which I assumed meant a new continuity was in place and they had re-crisesed everything. But apparently not. Apparently, it's not uncommon to change little things here and there without a huge overhaul of everything. Ah! It looks like as recently as 2011, they did have an overhaul, and we have the 'New 52' now. Great! So that was accompanied by new origin stories? Sort of. There was some changes to Superman's origins, eventually in Action Comics, or something? Okay........starting to see that there really aren't platforms to board at on this crazy DC train.

I've ended up buying three graphic novels; firstly, Batman: Year One. Seems well regarded, but actually it's the fact that it appears self contained that appeals to me. Just your basic 'there's a guy called Bruce Wayne and he becomes Batman' and not weighed down by this immense and intimidating DC universe. Secondly, All Star Superman, for the exact same reason. And thirdly, Dark Knight Returns. Somebody was saying a few pages back they thought it was overrated, but it's impossible to search for good Batman stories and not have this come up in every list ever. Plus, it seems like this is good preparation for BvS: Dawn of Justice.

Couple of questions: does anybody really understand why it's OK for Bart Simpson to remain 10 years old for the last 25 years, but not superheroes? Nowadays, I can see it gets taken much more seriously, but I've got both 'Superman in the Fifties' and 'Superman in the Sixties' and neither really take themselves any more seriously than the Simpsons does. Can you imagine the ramifications if DC had never given an explanation for why their characters were all frozen in time?

Also, I'm fascinated with how they go about changing minor aspects but not doing complete overhauls. Are there actually cogent in-universe explanations for these? Does some character just show up from from Earth X and proclaim that there's been a load of crises-juice spilt and now the Joker didn't kill Batman's parents? I fear I'll be a stickler for continuity, I'm already confused with how for any given story, the question of which official origin or continuity it belongs to always seems to be an almighty 'sort of....not sure.....maybe'. If there were a single, official Superman origin collected together, and then continuous volumes since 2011 of the New 52 I'd consider forking out and catching up. But that doesn't seem to be how things work, sadly.

[red snow]

The london store is pretty good (they also get some great signing events for "real" books too).

Good luck if "self-contained" is what you are after, It doesn't really happen with Marvel and DC, Daredevil and Hawkeye are fairly self-contained though and Spider-man (you can ignore the fact he's an Avenger)

I'd definitely urge you to try some Image titles out although they don't really do superheroes except for "invincible" which I can't comment on wrt quality.

If you like "year one" the Batman comic is most of the way through redoing it in "Zero year"

As for your questions - the heroes of marvel/DC don't really age either. DC simply restarts everything every few decades (cherry picking stories they want to keep) and Marvel has a sliding scale. eg Iron Man was making weapons in the korean war, then vietnam and most recently Afghanistan. Spider-man is probably 10 years older at most from what he was in the 60s.

The reason bart never ages while superheroes do a little bit is probably because the show can't afford to have the characters age. It'd be a different dynamic and not worth the risk. The problem with superheroes is that since the 80s the same audience has grown up and expected the comics to grow up with them. If the majority of superhero readers were under the age of 16 then I'd imagine they'd also keep the characters fairly frozen. Because that's not the case characters have tended to age, get jobs, get married etc to reflect the tastes of the audience,

In terms of official continuity DC have been very reluctant in giving a definitive list even though it would have been a great time to do so after the relaunch. they claim to have a bible but the fans only get it in small doses. Usually the most recent origin is the "official" one - unless it is shit and badly received in which case the previous one remains "official".

[john]

I think the reason they started messing with the continuity was so they could use the golden age versions of characters they'd rebooted while continuing with the rebooted version. Might have been for copyright reasons as much as internal story logic.

The last decent Batman run in the main universe I read was Black Mirror in Detective Comics (this is slightly before the 2011 revamp), if you want a taste of in universe stuff. It's got Dick Grayson as Batman and Damian Wayne as Robin but this continuity isn't important at all. It's just a good story.

[Calibandar]

Picked up two trades, Uncanny Avengers vol. 2 and vol. 3 Ragnarok.

I like this story with the Apocalypse twins and the second volume apparently features himself.

I probably need to read the massive Uncanny X Force omnibus that was just released first though, by Rick Remender as well.

Really liking the Uncanny X Force omnibus written by Remender and illustrated by many wonderful artists ( amongst which is Esad Ribic, a personal favourite). It's very entertaining and I'm looking for more stories in this vein.

After some significant research into the publication history, I think I'd also like the X Force Messiah War collection, so I'll pick that up as well. Apparently the Messiah Complex, unread on my shelf, is it's direct predecessor. There was another X Force series ( Angels and Demons, Old Ghosts) that seemed ok as well, but slightly less interesting.

Also, the London Forbidden Planet is great. I was there two years ago and simply didn't want to leave, I was in London and spent more than two hours in there.

[red snow]

The last decent Batman run in the main universe I read was Black Mirror in Detective Comics (this is slightly before the 2011 revamp), if you want a taste of in universe stuff. It's got Dick Grayson as Batman and Damian Wayne as Robin but this continuity isn't important at all. It's just a good story.

I think part of the reason it works is because there's not much effort made at making Grayson Batman any different from Wayne Batman. That was the only flaw in it when I read it but it's a cracking Batman story with excellent art from Jock. The Gordon Back-up story isn't too shoddy either,

After some significant research into the publication history, I think I'd also like the X Force Messiah War collection, so I'll pick that up as well. Apparently the Messiah Complex, unread on my shelf, is it's direct predecessor. There was another X Force series ( Angels and Demons, Old Ghosts) that seemed ok as well, but slightly less interesting.

The whole messiah arc is pretty strong. It's a great example of making the most of an arbitrary decision ("no more mutants"). The only let down is the way the story ends which is in Avengers vs X-men. Essentially an 8 year story is concluded as a by product in what was more of an Avengers event than an x-men one.

The X-force by Yost was also pretty good. Not as good as Uncanny X-force but surprisingly solid and with an interesting cast.

[Lady Octarina]

What do you guys think about the news around Axis? I'm happy that his red Skull story is finally getting somewhere, and that Magneto will be relevant in the bigger scheme of things once again. Damn Remender for making me really look forward to an event!

(yeah, I know I said the same about Original Sin, but tbh the main factor for me in this case is Deodato's art.)

I find it incredibly funny how they're not even bothering to pretend we can't be safe on who lives and who dies in Uncanny Avengers anymore, throwing a bunch of information on the Scarlet Witch's part in future titles. (girl's night out with Polaris under PAD: I'm in!)

The whole messiah arc is pretty strong. It's a great example of making the most of an arbitrary decision ("no more mutants"). The only let down is the way the story ends which is in Avengers vs X-men. Essentially an 8 year story is concluded as a by product in what was more of an Avengers event than an x-men one.

The X-force by Yost was also pretty good. Not as good as Uncanny X-force but surprisingly solid and with an interesting cast.

:agree: