Role in WoW: Sansa Stark (Spoilers)

[Persicaria]

Agreed, an interesting theory indeed. But how many, if any, interactions did the mountain clans have with Sansa in KL? They left before she wed Tyrion. I suppose it's possible they saw her at some point that isn't described in her POVs, and some may recognize her. I definitely want to see the mountain clans play into the plot again. I think that they might harbor some resentment towards Tyrion for failing to deliver them the Vale, so they could be hostile to Sansa. If Sansa somehow knows or learns about this debt, however, she might use it to her advantage by making some sort of pact with the mountain clans. That would allow her to come into her own as a player.

They are with Tyrion when he comes to Joffrey's Tourney. In "A clash of Kings"

". . . the little man kissed her (Myrcella) lightly on the brow and came waddling across the yard to Joffrey. Two of his men followed close behind him; a black-haired black-eyed sellsword who moved like a stalking cat, and a gaunt youth with an empty eye socket where one eye should have been . . ." (Sansa POV, page 50 2011 mass market paperback) . Tyrion then goes on to greet Joffrey and give his condolences to Lady Sansa. I'm fairly certain the gaunt youth Is Timmett son of Timmett . So there is one definite scene where a prominent member of one of the mountain clans has seen her.

Also, if we looked at Tyrion's pov as Hand his mountain men serve as his enforcers even in the keep. So they could easily have gotten better looks at her in passing. Again I know it provides very little evidence to them actually meeting.

I just find it interesting that Littlefinger mentions that one of the possilbe heirs to the Vale (a daughter of Alys and Elys) was kidnapped by burned men. I feel like it is foreshadowing some sort of involvement to the political intrigues of the Vale. Again it might not have anything to do with Sansa, but it is interesting to think about

[Colonel Green]

I just find it interesting that Littlefinger mentions that one of the possilbe heirs to the Vale (a dughter of Alys and Elys) was kidnapped by burned men. I feel like it is foreshadowing some sort of involvement to the political intrigues of the Vale. Again it might not have anything to do with Sansa, but it is interesting to think about

I've seen that theory, but I think it's rather unlikely. Firstly, it hinges on the idea that they actually bothered to marry the poor girl, in a ceremony that the rest of the Westeros would regard as legally binding. Second, why would the Vale lords ever in a million years consider a savage mountain clansman as a viable heir?

[Persicaria]

It's all about power, and how bad the other candidates are. It may not even be up to the noblemen of the Vale. The Vale lords are rather lucky to have been sparred from the fighting, and so their numbers remain strong. However, that will change as Aegon and Dany begin their campaigns. Whoever the Vale Lords choose their opponent would do well to enlist the mountain clans. The mountain clans, as experienced guerrilla fighters, could significantly undermine the efforts of the regular Vale army. This will undermine the power of the nobility as well. Also, there is at least one major character with an axe to grind, and a history with the clans, Tyrion. I could see it being just the kind of thing Tyrion would do to stick it to the nobility that humiliated him. Of course, that would depend on whose side he joins.I just would find it funny if Sansa slips out of LF's grasp is able to get the Mountain Clans allegiance and then meets up with Tyrion and is like "I have brought you an army husband, now give me a divorce." Again,I admit this is pretty far-fetched.

[aryagonnakill#2]

I've seen that theory, but I think it's rather unlikely. Firstly, it hinges on the idea that they actually bothered to marry the poor girl, in a ceremony that the rest of the Westeros would regard as legally binding. Second, why would the Vale lords ever in a million years consider a savage mountain clansman as a viable heir?

A smart person would recognize it to unite the vale lords with the mountain clans to end unnecessary fighting.

[Woman of War]

Hmm, maybe neither Sandor nor LF nor Tyrion will be Sansa's beast to tame by love but Timmett Son of Timmett, the true heir to the Vale at some point of the story. And this will indeed bring peace between Vale inhabitants of Westerosi origin and those of Mountain Clan origin.

Actually who says the Mountain Clans are the agressors here? Maybe the Vale has been taken from them by Westerosi settlers who destroyed their ways of life and gave them the part of villains in history, calling them terrorists. Your freedom fighter may be my terrorist and vice versa.

Maybe it will be Sansa's role to bring peace to the Vale, not a small achievement as player.

[Littlefinger86]

Sansa does have the blood of the First Men, just like the Mountain clans. Perhaps she could use that to her advantage.

[Persicaria]

Hmm, maybe neither Sandor nor LF nor Tyrion will be Sansa's beast to tame by love but Timmett Son of Timmett, the true heir to the Vale at some point of the story. And this will indeed bring peace between Vale inhabitants of Westerosi origin and those of Mountain Clan origin.

Actually who says the Mountain Clans are the agressors here? Maybe the Vale has been taken from them by Westerosi settlers who destroyed their ways of life and gave them the part of villains in history, calling them terrorists. Your freedom fighter may be my terrorist and vice versa.

Maybe it will be Sansa's role to bring peace to the Vale, not a small achievement as player.

Maybe, but a part of me hopes Sansa never "officially" marries. I do want the girl to be loved. How do I reconcile this, she marries under the Old God's and not under the Westerosi seven, thereby not officially married. Her child could be legitimized and in line to inherit. In such a scenario she could be protector of the Vale until her son comes of age. That way the son of Timett would rule, but never Timett. This might appease some of the misgivings of the lords and even the mountain clans. Or she could claim her child is Robert's ( kind of sick, but it may not have been a problem with Westerosi lords) or Harry's. As a noblewoman the vale lords are more likely to believe her and side with her.

Thank you guys for even giving this little crackpot of mine some actual consideration. It's fun thinking of all the crazy possibilities.

[Walkingdude]

So many good theory's here. The only things i can think of is the connections between Sansa/Tyrion/Lady Stoneheart/Jamie and Brienne. Somehow they will all come together in my mind but have no idea how....because the truth is i wanted her and Sandor together all along.Even if he is just a grave digger.

[Freddie Vesey]

An interesting concept would be sansa escapes with the blackfish and the mad mouse and the walks into Shagga son of Dolf and she mentions that she is married to tyrion and they like the half man and let her live and help her

[Winnief]

Maybe, but a part of me hopes Sansa never "officially" marries. I do want the girl to be loved. How do I reconcile this, she marries under the Old God's and not under the Westerosi seven, thereby not officially married. Her child could be legitimized and in line to inherit. In such a scenario she could be protector of the Vale until her son comes of age. That way the son of Timett would rule, but never Timett. This might appease some of the misgivings of the lords and even the mountain clans. Or she could claim her child is Robert's ( kind of sick, but it may not have been a problem with Westerosi lords) or Harry's. As a noblewoman the vale lords are more likely to believe her and side with her.

If Sansa does bear a out of wedlock child, (which may well happen given her longing for motherhood and children, but increasing scepticism about marriage,) there is actually some precedent for that in the North. For instance Mance Rayder's favorite story is tale of the Blue Bard, and how the bastard son of the daughter of the House became Lord of Winterfeel

The Mormont woman have been bearing children for years, without husbands since, "we're skinchanger's and the father's are bears."

And Sansa is actually known as a warg, (and may well develop her abilities more in the future.)

[Amoracchius]

If Sansa does bear a out of wedlock child, (which may well happen given her longing for motherhood and children, but increasing scepticism about marriage,) there is actually some precedent for that in the North. For instance Mance Rayder's favorite story is tale of the Blue Bard, and how the bastard son of the daughter of the House became Lord of Winterfeel

The Mormont woman have been bearing children for years, without husbands since, "we're skinchanger's and the father's are bears."

And Sansa is actually known as a warg, (and may well develop her abilities more in the future.)

I think you mean Bael the Bard. Wasn't the Blue Bard they guy that Cersei has tortured in AFFC?

[Quentyn Kartell]

I don't see a Targaryen / Stark unification. A Targaryen and a Stark were the reason for Roberts Rebellion. I think LF Varys and Illyrio are playing all sides of the coin. Once Tywin died, the picture was on the wall on the direction of KL. I think they are hoping Aegon is successful but if not they can unite the North around Sansa. I think Jeyne will be revealed. Varys was present when Jeyne left KL so LF knows that he holds the true key to the North. He's just waiting for the right time to reveal her. I don't think Sansa ever finds out LF's role in Ned's death. I think she'll blame herself for Ned's and Lady's death and Arya's disappearance. But it's gonna take another tragic event for her to grab the bull by the horns. So I think it'll take some time.

[Winnief]

I think you mean Bael the Bard. Wasn't the Blue Bard they guy that Cersei has tortured in AFFC?

You're right. My bad.

[jons nissa]

Maybe, but a part of me hopes Sansa never "officially" marries. I do want the girl to be loved. How do I reconcile this, she marries under the Old God's and not under the Westerosi seven, thereby not officially married. Her child could be legitimized and in line to inherit. In such a scenario she could be protector of the Vale until her son comes of age. That way the son of Timett would rule, but never Timett. This might appease some of the misgivings of the lords and even the mountain clans. Or she could claim her child is Robert's ( kind of sick, but it may not have been a problem with Westerosi lords) or Harry's. As a noblewoman the vale lords are more likely to believe her and side with her.

Thank you guys for even giving this little crackpot of mine some actual consideration. It's fun thinking of all the crazy possibilities.

i don't think it's unreasonable to find love in an arranged marriage. sansa's future isn't hopeless if she doesn't marry the hound or timett or anyone else. there are different ways for her to have a positive story and be married.

still, i would prefer for her to be single and focus on strengthening house stark politically.

[Persicaria]

You're right Jon's Nissa, it is possible to love someone you're arranged to marry. However, I feel like Sana is growing to mistrust marriage and what she thought it means. If she does marry it will be in a way her younger self would probably never approve of . I also , like you said, want her to have some agency of her own. It's very hard for a woman to have that when married in Westeros. She might be lucky enough to find the one man who would give it to her, but it would be difficult.

I would love for her to return to Winterfell, but she needs a catalyst to turn her desire to go into an initiative. It could be an outside agency working on her, but she's been there don't that the girl has to make the move. The news of her sister or brother being in danger maybe just what she needs. I don't know GRRM has probably left us several clues along with a bunch of red herrings. It will be interesting either way.

[jons nissa]

You're right Jon's Nissa, it is possible to love someone you're arranged to marry. However, I feel like Sana is growing to mistrust marriage and what she thought it means. If she does marry it will be in a way her younger self would probably never approve of . I also , like you said, want her to have some agency of her own. It's very hard for a woman to have that when married in Westeros. She might be lucky enough to find the one man who would give it to her, but it would be difficult.

I would love for her to return to Winterfell, but she needs a catalyst to turn her desire to go into an initiative. It could be an outside agency working on her, but she's been there don't that the girl has to make the move. The news of her sister or brother being in danger maybe just what she needs. I don't know GRRM has probably left us several clues along with a bunch of red herrings. It will be interesting either way.

i agree that if sansa is married by the end of the series, it will be in a very different way than she imagined at the start of the series.

as for her returning to winterfell, perhaps for a visit but i feel as though her future is in king's landing since she is apprenticing to littlefinger who's place is at the heart of the political scene of westeros. learning from him and then returning to winterfell seems like a huge waste, imo. again, i think her future will be very different than she imagined at the start of the series so i think she'll have a career, so to speak, rather than just being a wife of a great lord and mother of children. at least, that's what i'd like to see as the end of her arc. but yeah, it's martin so who knows.

[Persicaria]

i agree that if sansa is married by the end of the series, it will be in a very different way than she imagined at the start of the series.

as for her returning to winterfell, perhaps for a visit but i feel as though her future is in king's landing since she is apprenticing to littlefinger who's place is at the heart of the political scene of westeros. learning from him and then returning to winterfell seems like a huge waste, imo. again, i think her future will be very different than she imagined at the start of the series so i think she'll have a career, so to speak, rather than just being a wife of a great lord and mother of children. at least, that's what i'd like to see as the end of her arc. but yeah, it's martin so who knows.

If she were to return to King's Landing I wonder what position she would take there. The one that sounds most obvious is the the queen more beautiful then Cersei. It would be poetic in a way for her to flee as a fugitive and return as queen. Still, not sure if I'm sold on it, though. It might also be interesting if she were to return as a member of the small council. By being Alayne she is learning to pretend to be someone else, through experience she is getting better at reading people, and through Littlefinger she is learning how the webs all connect. I wonder if there ever have been a lady of whispers? Don't know if she will develop the skills and devious cunning needed for that, and something like that wouldn't come into play until the end anyway.

[Winnief]

have a career, so to speak, rather than just being a wife of a great lord and mother of children. at least, that's what i'd like to see as the end of her arc. but yeah, it's martin so who knows.

If she were to return to King's Landing I wonder what position she would take there. The one that sounds most obvious is the the queen more beautiful then Cersei. It would be poetic in a way for her to flee as a fugitive and return as queen. Still, not sure if I'm sold on it, though.

I wonder about that too Persicara. It would be poetic, not just as a reversal for Sansa's fortunes, but because frankly, off all the candidates for the younger more beautiful queen out there, Sansa is the one that has by far the most of a personal relationship to Cersei-and so her being the one to overthrow her, would have the most impact.

Also, Tyrion noted that Sansa would have made a great Queen Consort-again of all the candidates she seems arguably best suited for it.

However, I really doubt at this point that Sansa wants the job. In fact, I think she wants to stay well clear of the IT in the future...of course knowing GRRM, it may suit him to put the crown on Sansa's head after she's grown to hate the idea.

For Lady Of Whispers, my pick would be Arya rather than Sansa. Though, Sansa could be a good adviser...

[Persicaria]

I wonder about that too Persicara. It would be poetic, not just as a reversal for Sansa's fortunes, but because frankly, off all the candidates for the younger more beautiful queen out there, Sansa is the one that has by far the most of a personal relationship to Cersei-and so her being the one to overthrow her, would have the most impact.

Also, Tyrion noted that Sansa would have made a great Queen Consort-again of all the candidates she seems arguably best suited for it.

However, I really doubt at this point that Sansa wants the job. In fact, I think she wants to stay well clear of the IT in the future...of course knowing GRRM, it may suit him to put the crown on Sansa's head after she's grown to hate the idea.

For Lady Of Whispers, my pick would be Arya rather than Sansa. Though, Sansa could be a good adviser...

Actually, you are right Arya would make a really good master of whispers. It maybe one of the few roles I could see Arya taking if she returned to Westeros. As for the Iron throne, it would be ironic if the people who come to power are the ones who want it least. She has some definite good qualities that would make her desirable in such a position, but it would definitely be something she wouldn't want. However, her heart yearns for Winterfell. I hope GRRM gives her the opportunity of returning North even if she is destined to remain South, at least to make some sort of peace.

[heathers]

A few thoughts on the last few posts. Firstly the cersei quote in the tv series and books about sansa not loving the king but she will love his children. She uses the words the king and not joffrey. (In CoK)

Another scene springs to mind of a discussion of how ned would have been a good king as he never sought the throne - not sure of an actual quote as i dont have a copy to hand.

Im still not sure where i predict sansas future lies but i do think Dany will land in the vale with tyrion in her entourage.

Hope to add quotes asap