King Behind The Wall Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 We already know that Others are very intelligent and they have a certain, well-defined plan for invasion of seven kingdoms. Is there a chance that they might actually win at the end, since we know so little about them? During Q&A session in Sydney, one in the audience asked if the Others fit in the story since so far they are painted as outright evil whereas everyone else is mix of good and bad. GRRM said that he has two more books to write and there is enormous information about Others that viewers/readers do not know yet. Since he obviously cannot answer in yes or no, I think this answer is as clear as it can be. He broke the assumption that Others are evil. If Others are not evil, are their actions justified? What if they are the rightful residents and it is humans who have pushed them to extreme north and built a wall to imprison them? GRRM also has said (i don't remember whether in the same panel or elsewhere) that every person is doing the right thing in his/her own mind. So the stories that have passed on through the generations that portray humans as good and Others as evil may not be true since they only show one side of the story. Also, they have been defeated before. So they will not repeat that mistake. They might have a plan to overcome whatever that caused their defeat last time. There is not going to be a happy ending but a bittersweet one. So is the Others being the winners a part of that bittersweet ending? It doesn't make sense that they are such an enigma for first 5 books, explained in the sixth book and quickly dispatched in the seventh book. There is another layer to this. If we see that Others are the true heirs to Westeros because of the are the original residents, it will be interesting to see whether other candidates accept this or how will they react to this. For example, will Dany finally acknowledge the outsider status of Targaryens in Westeros? They have always been proud Targs of Valeria. They were never Targaryens of Westeros. They were always outsiders. This does not apply to other houses. Do we see Baratheons as Pentosi? Or Starks as Dothraki? No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mediterraneo Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 Winter is coming... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonsrule Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 No, because inherently the Others winning would mean the destruction of human civilization (they bring the cold and the Long Night) They may not be evil, more a force of nature like the plague or earthquakes but they are enemies to humanity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion of the West Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 My pet theory is that the Others are kind of natural phenomena that comes around now and then to fuck things over. Could even be a cause of "population control" on humans as practiced by the magical forces of the world. They come every few thousand years to ensure the humans don't spill out of control? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Not Appearing Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 Let me crackpot something just to see if anyone has thoughts on the matter beyond the obvious rejection in principle: This may be the dumbest question ever, but... Do we know for absolutely certain that AA or TPTWP is going to fight on the side of the Seven Kingdoms and not the Others? What if the Others are those who are oppressed somehow by the Seven Kingdoms and their rise is the rise against oppression/darkness?I wouldn't say it is likely at all (is 2% too high?) but in a series about how perspective guides perception of truth, this might be the ultimate example. It might also fit the bittersweet (or whatever adjective that was) ending he has foretold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aceluby Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 I've always believed that we don't have any useful information about the Others to make any claim as to their intentions. So far all we've seen is them attacking invaders of their land, which IMO is not enough to call them 'evil', humans do it all the time. Other than that we have some old legends and that's about it. Couple that with GRRM's intention to have them be a beautiful race of beings and I could see a twist happening around the Others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Behind The Wall Posted December 30, 2013 Author Share Posted December 30, 2013 I will start a new thread for Dany's acceptance of her outsider status because that would be a separate discussion altogether. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mindchap Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 That would drive everyone stark raving mad. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alistair's Pantaloons Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 The more worthwhile characters get killed off, the more I hope the Others do win and bring democracy to Westeros. Essos is next. :bowdown: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wolves Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 The more worthwhile characters get killed off, the more I hope the Others do win and bring democracy to Westeros. Essos is next. :bowdown:Lol!!! Right!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sages Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 We already know that Others are very intelligent and they have a certain, well-defined plan for invasion of seven kingdoms. Is there a chance that they might actually win at the end, since we know so little about them? During Q&A session in Sydney, one in the audience asked if the Others fit in the story since so far they are painted as outright evil whereas everyone else is mix of good and bad. GRRM said that he has two more books to write and there is enormous information about Others that viewers/readers do not know yet. Since he obviously cannot answer in yes or no, I think this answer is as clear as it can be. He broke the assumption that Others are evil. If Others are not evil, are their actions justified? What if they are the rightful residents and it is humans who have pushed them to extreme north and built a wall to imprison them? GRRM also has said (i don't remember whether in the same panel or elsewhere) that every person is doing the right thing in his/her own mind. So the stories that have passed on through the generations that portray humans as good and Others as evil may not be true since they only show one side of the story. Also, they have been defeated before. So they will not repeat that mistake. They might have a plan to overcome whatever that caused their defeat last time. There is not going to be a happy ending but a bittersweet one. So is the Others being the winners a part of that bittersweet ending? It doesn't make sense that they are such an enigma for first 5 books, explained in the sixth book and quickly dispatched in the seventh book. There is another layer to this. If we see that Others are the true heirs to Westeros because of the are the original residents, it will be interesting to see whether other candidates accept this or how will they react to this. For example, will Dany finally acknowledge the outsider status of Targaryens in Westeros? They have always been proud Targs of Valeria. They were never Targaryens of Westeros. They were always outsiders. This does not apply to other houses. Do we see Baratheons as Pentosi? Or Starks as Dothraki? No. It could be that the others don't win but neither do the humans. They could end up making a peace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Behind The Wall Posted December 31, 2013 Author Share Posted December 31, 2013 That would drive everyone stark raving mad. ;) Maybe....or maybe not after we know more about them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Broke Howard Hughes Posted December 31, 2013 Share Posted December 31, 2013 Absolutely, petty power grabbing has weakened the northern army limiting their ability to fight them. If the wall falls and the others invade, the south won't believe the danger is real until they see it with their own eyes and by then it'll be too late. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zbaxrl Posted December 31, 2013 Share Posted December 31, 2013 My pet theory is that the Others are kind of natural phenomena that comes around now and then to fuck things over. Could even be a cause of "population control" on humans as practiced by the magical forces of the world. They come every few thousand years to ensure the humans don't spill out of control? It is known that the COTF used twice the forces of nature to try to get rid of those pesky humans. Melisandre thinks that BR & Bran are champions of the Great Other, and the prophecies/legends of AA, last hero, etc suggest me that there needs to exist an antagonist figure to be slayed, the others wont fall in battle. And that figure wont be revealed on the last books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat Lover Posted December 31, 2013 Share Posted December 31, 2013 Let's hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
para Posted December 31, 2013 Share Posted December 31, 2013 No, they won't.If the Others win, every human characters dies and that's it. Everything that has happened that didn't directly connect to the Others plot, has been made pointless. And that's narratively just BS. To reduce all political decisions to the thing that didn't matter in the end, sends the message that everyone should have just gone with the status quo to defeat The Others, even if the status quo was Joffrey, and slavery, and Ramsay, and Littlefinger, and Gregor, and horrible shit. Politics has meaning. There is a difference between Ned ruling Winterfell and Ramsay ruling Winterfell. That difference is not supposed to be meaningless, not ever.And historically speaking, no natural catastrophe - be it a disease or an environmental - has ever killed as many people as politics has. The real world is not a zombie movie, and if GRRM is as realistic as he pretends to be, Westeros is not gonna turn into Zombieland either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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