northwesterner Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 Do you think that Jon will get his wish? Or do you think that the Martells, Tyrells, fAegon or maybe Lannister selfdetruction, will bring down House Lannister? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GallowsKnight Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 I think a lot of readers get stuck in their minds that there has to been some maintenance of the status quo, that great houses shouldn't be extinguished or removed from power. When clearly it happens in Westeros, if not frequently. I think it's quite possible that house Lannister might be completely stripped of lands and power, with many of their member dead or exiled. If Stannis had his way that's what'd happen. The only way I think it would survive would be through Tyrion attaching himself to one of the upcoming regimes. Like Aegon, Dany or Jon. But it would be a considerable shadow of itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wight knight Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 Hopefully jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brienne The Wolf Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 The Tyrells probably And the Lannister themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeirwoodTreeHugger Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 Well it's already partially come true. Tywin, Joffrey and Kevan went bye-bye. None of them in a particularly noble fashion either. I wouldn't be surprised if GRRM trolls everyone by letting Cersei live and giving her Casterly Rock though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumHam Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 I think a lot of readers get stuck in their minds that there has to been some maintenance of the status quo, that great houses shouldn't be extinguished or removed from power. When clearly it happens in Westeros, if not frequently. Still it's worth considering that it didn't happen at all during the Targaryens' reign. The issue comes up in the Princess and the Queen. The Lannisters and Baratheons should be destroyed as well, so their lands and castles might be given to men who had proved more loyal. Grant Storm’s End to Ulf White and Casterly Rock to Hard Hugh Hammer, the prince proposed … to the horror of the Sea Snake. “Half the lords of Westeros will turn against us if we are so cruel as to destroy two such ancient and noble houses,” Lord Corlys said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GallowsKnight Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 Still it's worth considering that it didn't happen at all during the Targaryens' reign. The issue comes up in the Princess and the Queen. Fair point. It did happen during the Conquest though with Hoare and Gardener. In the Dance those houses were simply sworn to one of the different royal regimes. In the War of the Five Kings, Baratheon, Lannister and Tyrells are essentially the regimes fighting it out. I doubt Stannis would keep house Tyrell or Lannister around. Poorly informed Danaerys likely thinks she'll depose Lannister, Stark and Baratheon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Pellinore Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 Lady Stoneheart has a better chance of taking out Lannisters than Jon does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sages Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 In my opinion the lannisters have already fallen pretty far, through self-destruction(mostly Cersei). Although they are so powerful it will be really hard for them to collapse. Some lannisters hold lannisport and there are others. They still have kings landing, Jaime is in charge of the kingsguard(for now that might change). It's still possible that Jon could get his chance to do some damage. Although I would say it's unlikely that he destroys their entire household. I'm thinking that Jon wouldn't want to do that to Tyrion. But he would most likely have no problem doing something like stripping all power from Cersei and giving it to Tyrion. If anyone was going to destroy house lannister it would be the Martells or Tyrells, they seem like the only ones who truly dislike the entire house. Lady Stoneheart has a better chance of taking out Lannisters than Jon does.Lol, for now. We'll see after the winds of winter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winnief Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 Well Cersei is doing a damn fine job of reigning death and destruction down on the Lannister's all by herself so Jon should feel free to concentrate on the Others.. I think a lot of readers get stuck in their minds that there has to been some maintenance of the status quo, that great houses shouldn't be extinguished or removed from power. When clearly it happens in Westeros, if not frequently. THe last time it happened being the Targaryen Conquest. And now we have at least TWO Targaryen invasions in the works. A LOT of bloodlines could end up being extinguished here. But not the Starks, given that the Wolves Will Come Back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Eater Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 As other posters have said, Cersei is already doing a good job of that. House Lannister is destroying itself through incompetence and infighting. Tyrion is going to do some damage as well, and already has by killing Tywin. I wouldn't put it past Cersei to have Kevan's family killed off. UnCat is taking care of Lannisters in the riverlands, specifically Daven at his wedding in RR. The ones to kill Jaime and Cersei will be each other. Jon will pretty much get his own wish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyse Stark Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 As other posters have said, Cersei is already doing a good job of that. House Lannister is destroying itself through incompetence and infighting. Tyrion is going to do some damage as well, and already has by killing Tywin. I wouldn't put it past Cersei to have Kevan's family killed off. UnCat is taking care of Lannisters in the riverlands, specifically Daven at his wedding in RR. The ones to kill Jaime and Cersei will be each other. Jon will pretty much get his own wish.I agree. Cersei's envy and paranoia will be the Lannisters' downfall, and what was once their will be given to other houses that cares about people not power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duranaparthur Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 I don't know if Stannis would completely destroy the Lannisters. He'd probably reduce them from Warden of the West status and impoverish them, maybe even take the Rock, but he seems to have enough pragmatism and respect for some of the smaller lords that I could see Daven Lannister and some of the other cadet houses surviving providing they bend the knee. And Stannis has enough respect for tradition and the old order to probably raise a humbled Lannister to be the new head of the Rock, provided he resembled Stannis himself in RR.Danaerys, Aegon, and maybe even Jon though.... Unless Tyrion manages to make the right sales pitch, I could see number one on their priority list be the complete destruction of House Lannister. Baratheon and Stark might be able to appeal extenuating circumstances what with Connington seeming even keeled and Selmy gaining Dany's trust. Tywin's treacherous methods coupled with his already "disloyal" ends probably painted a giant target on his back.Of course it could be worse....They could be like the Freys. Those guys are super-dead. Downright cadaveriffic, in fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roddy the Ruin Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 I think much of House Lannister will fall during the Long Night 2.0 and maybe a few at the Red Wedding 2.0. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winnief Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 I don't know if Stannis would completely destroy the Lannisters. He'd probably reduce them from Warden of the West status and impoverish them, maybe even take the Rock, but he seems to have enough pragmatism and respect for some of the smaller lords that I could see Daven Lannister and some of the other cadet houses surviving providing they bend the knee. And Stannis has enough respect for tradition and the old order to probably raise a humbled Lannister to be the new head of the Rock, provided he resembled Stannis himself in RR.Danaerys, Aegon, and maybe even Jon though.... Unless Tyrion manages to make the right sales pitch, I could see number one on their priority list be the complete destruction of House Lannister. Baratheon and Stark might be able to appeal extenuating circumstances what with Connington seeming even keeled and Selmy gaining Dany's trust. Tywin's treacherous methods coupled with his already "disloyal" ends probably painted a giant target on his back.Of course it could be worse....They could be like the Freys. Those guys are super-dead. Downright cadaveriffic, in fact. Yeah, if Dany gets to Westeros, Tyrion will be the Lannister's best hope. The Starks at least have Jon, and Stannis can point to his service fighting the Others. The Boltons and the Frey's though are just doomed. I think much of House Lannister will fall during the Long Night 2.0 and maybe a few at the Red Wedding 2.0. I get the Long Night 2.0, (and that's when I think the Frey's will really start dropping like flies-and sadly a lot of other people who don't deserve it,) but I don't see any reason other than wishful thinking in Fandom to believe there will be a Red Wedding 2.0. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GallowsKnight Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 I don't know if Stannis would completely destroy the Lannisters. He'd probably reduce them from Warden of the West status and impoverish them, maybe even take the Rock, but he seems to have enough pragmatism and respect for some of the smaller lords that I could see Daven Lannister and some of the other cadet houses surviving providing they bend the knee. And Stannis has enough respect for tradition and the old order to probably raise a humbled Lannister to be the new head of the Rock, provided he resembled Stannis himself in RR. I think the best any Lannister can expect is to get to live under Stannis. There'd be new Lord of Casterly Rock/Warden of the West, either drawn from his bannermen or a Westerland house who change sides and serves him well. But for tradition sake they'd likely be married to Kevan's daughter Janei to cement the claim and give stability. Much like what the Lannisters/Boltons tried to do with Sansa/Arya. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petyr Patter Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 I think a lot of readers get stuck in their minds that there has to been some maintenance of the status quo, that great houses shouldn't be extinguished or removed from power. When clearly it happens in Westeros, if not frequently. Well, every Great House has a very strong incentive to make deposing another Great House taboo. No matter how much the Martells and the Tyrells hate each other, so long as the unspoken rule is "the Great House always keeps its seat and its immediate lands" then every Great House is protected. Now, the current head might very well be killed, but his heir or a lesser branch stepping up to continue the line gives them all a degree of coverage. We see this often in politics, where rules that empower a minority are kept in place by the majority because the majority wants to be able to use the same rules should fortunes change. Aegon the Conqueror certainly changed the equation, but it very soon fell right back into place once the Conquest was finished. Even the Houses he replaced, Like Durrdereon, usually found some way to maintain the bloodline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winnief Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 But for tradition sake they'd likely be married to Kevan's daughter Janei to cement the claim and give stability. Much like what the Lannisters/Boltons tried to do with Sansa/Arya. THat might well be the eventual solution. Especially, if by the time things are done, there may not *be* any surviving male heirs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Alienor Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 I agree that the Lannisters will have destroyed themselves by the time Jon can make any move. The Freys though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Mac Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 I am pretty confident that the Lannisters will keep control of the West when all is said and done. The Crown though, they've already lost control of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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