Unrealistic Battle Sequences

[Ser Areo Mace]

It's a bit different, Yoda is around 900 years old, and a Jedi Master, and don't forget the Force, Tyrion is in his mid 30's isn't he? He is flanked by 2 Kingsguard, Heavily armored and facing people who most likely have had little to no training in swordsmanship before having their swords forced upon them and are scared out of their wit's by fire on water which is scientifically impossible unless there be oil in dat water.

I do not believe Tyrion is that old. Jaime and Cersei were only 18 during the Rebellion and he is seven years younger then they are I believe. He may be in his late twenties at the oldest. Same thing with the Hound, he's only in his mid to late twenties in the books.

[Faydra]

Neither was Winterfell at that moment. Robb wasn't there.

Not being there at the moment does not make it any less his residence. All of them marching on Torrhen's Square screams of plot-induced stupidity. The castle should have been better garrisoned since it held two princes. In real life, such things don't happen.

[Raving Stark the Mad]

In real life, people don't let such things happen

You're right. In real life people never make huge mistakes.

[Michael Herman]

Fictional battles are unrealistic, obviously. If they were realistic, then they would comprise of massed groups of archers shooting into the enemy ranks, and shield/spear walls facing each other, prodding each others shield with spears, trying to create openings so they can injure someone. After this first stage, which in a large battle lasts for hours, one side should be thinned out enough or tired enough to be susceptible to a cavalry charge, after which they hopefully break and the slaughter begins.

So basically the interesting part lasts for about 5 minutes after the losing sides lines have broken, the rest can last for hours and would make piss poor reading material.

Obviously main characters are better fighters than they logically should be much of the time, as we want to read about them, not nameless characters off in the distance.

Saying all of that I still wish Tyrion was less of a badass in battle, and the Deepwood Motte sequence was terribly though out in my opinion.

P.S. To all those military historical nerds out there, I realise my description of medieval battle was a bit simplistic and there were many other way in which people fought, but if you're interested in that you should go to warfare forums, not ASoIaF forums.

[ckal]

Please, provide source when puting things in GRRM's mouth. See: I have taken the time to look for a quote from George saying the opposite.

Again, the author doesn't agree with you.

I'm not putting words in his mouth. I am repeating words that have come out of his mouth. I'm at work so I won't go looking for it now, but it's absolutely out there. I know others will be able to back this up as well.

[ckal]

Please, provide source when puting things in GRRM's mouth. See: I have taken the time to look for a quote from George saying the opposite.

Again, the author doesn't agree with you.

Additionally, I just looked at the SSMs you linked. The first is from 2002 before what I'm referencing where he was asked if there is anything he would change about his books. The second confirms what I stated: Tyrion is no where near the level of battle trained as all the other men fighting around him.

"that does not mean he is an especially skilled fighter" -grrm

Your links, they are nothing.

[Vesemir]

Also, in Battle of the Wall, the Crows have prepared boiling oil to pour it on the wildlings if I'm not mistaken. Just THAT is extremely unrealistic. It was tough in medieval times to keep the oil boiling even in a normal weather, while on the Wall it is about -40 degrees?

[Don Roberto]

There are a few inconsistencies with Tyrion - for example, he mentions at Winterfell that he needs a special saddle to ride a horse, yet seems to ride horses out of a brim through the rest of the series. But he's never described as a weak person. And he does go back to doing cartwheels and acrobacies in ADWD, even while drunk.

Though one unrealistic part of the Blackwater battle is a skinny boy like Pod knocking down the big, heavy and fully armoured Ser Mandon. I know they were standing on a crashed ship, easy to lose balance, but the difference in size and weight is too big to make it believable.

[The hairy bear]

Your links, they are nothing.

So far, it's much more that what you have been able to provide so far.

So I'm eager for you to provide anything to support your points. I'll be expecting for a link of George saying, after 2002, that he regrets how he wrote Tyrion at the begining. And another acnowledging that the men he slew at the Blackwater were not recruited peasant or untrained men-at-arms, but battle-tested knights and sellswords.

[PrimeRhaegar]

Tyrion in any battle, but mostly the Blackwater. Also, arrows shot to the top of a 700ft Wall and still being lethal...

i said that those wildling arrows must have been haxed as hell. Or the Bows jesus i do wonder how they managed to do that.

[Lord Rahvin]

I personally didn't like the Battle of the Dragonpit in TPatQ, the peasants of KL manage to beat back real soldiers...and kill all those Dragons, really?

[Lord Stark]

Additionally, I just looked at the SSMs you linked. The first is from 2002 before what I'm referencing where he was asked if there is anything he would change about his books. The second confirms what I stated: Tyrion is no where near the level of battle trained as all the other men fighting around him.

"that does not mean he is an especially skilled fighter" -grrm

Your links, they are nothing.

I've seen the same quote, and I'm pretty sure it was from a video, maybe comic con or something.

[Lord Stark]

http://www.adriasnews.com/2012/10/george-r-r-martin-interview.html

Here you go. Grrm also confirms in this interview that he would change that.

[Catastrophe]

I never had a problem with Tyrion being competent in battle. He was the son of the richest and most powerful Great Lord in the Seven Kingdoms, there's no reason to assume he wouldn't have had extensive combat training.

As for his disability, being short isn't necessarily that much of a disadvantage. It means he doesn't have as much reach as a taller person would, but it also means he'd be harder to hit, since he wouldn't be standing at face level with the average person. He also seems to be in relatively good health. He's very strong for his size, and he's fairly athletic, as evidenced by his tumbling skills. People always bring up the fact that his legs constantly ache and he has trouble climbing staircases, but that seems like a fairly minor problem. In the heat of battle, with adrenaline rushing through his body, I don't doubt that he'd be able to block out the pain in his joints.

Also, he spent most of his battles on horseback, where his lack of reach and his aching legs wouldn't have been an issue at all. Combine all that with the fact that he was wearing the finest armor that money could buy, and it's not at all surprising that he was able to hold his own against a few average men-at-arms.

[Kurogane]

So far, it's much more that what you have been able to provide so far.

So I'm eager for you to provide anything to support your points. I'll be expecting for a link of George saying, after 2002, that he regrets how he wrote Tyrion at the begining. And another acnowledging that the men he slew at the Blackwater were not recruited peasant or untrained men-at-arms, but battle-tested knights and sellswords.

"Man-at-arms" implies the exact opposite of untrained: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man-at-arms

[PrimeRhaegar]

I personally didn't like the Battle of the Dragonpit in TPatQ, the peasants of KL manage to beat back real soldiers...and kill all those Dragons, really?

on of those cases of number prevailing and people who are willing to risk their lives. Look at the japanese i world war too they made the Americans bleed hard because they were willing to trow away their lives like nothing to inflict damage. Still i question alot of things with dragon battles in princess and the queen.

[The Holy Goat]

I have never felt that any of the battles in the series are unfeasible or breaks my suspense of disbelief. Tyrion is a great Lord's son. He's had training, probably the best possible for a dwarf, and he's been trained to wear heavy armor, though his own set remains in Casterly Rock, and he's been ahorse in both his fights, which negates his mainweakness: his short crummy legs. When surrounded by his men, facing frightened and exhausted foes I do not find it hard to believe. And he also has luck on his side of course, but most POV characters do, or they wouldn't stay POV's for long.

[Vesemir]

I think most of the people here don't know what it's like to fight on a horse. Cavalry was feared due to its massive charging blows to the enemy ranks, not for fighting foot soldiers. In a fight between a cavalry man and a foot soldier, the foot soldier has ENORMOUS advantage. Basically, the cavalry man has just 1 angle to attack. And that angle can be quite easily blocked by a shield, while he's covering all your blows, he can stab you in the leg or if he has some type of pole-arm, he can drag you from the horse and I'm not even talking about what would happen if there was a foot soldier with a spear...

He can slice the horses legs and the rider will be on the ground and when he's got plate armor on, he's really not getting up, then it's very easy to stab him in the head through visor, to the groin, armpits etc.

So, you see, in a 1v1 fight it was almost impossible for the foot soldier to loose. Add up to that, Tyrion, eventhough he has very strong arms, has small reach, I REALLY don't think he could kill ANYBODY.

[Djinn]

I think most of the people here don't know what it's like to fight on a horse. Cavalry was feared due to its massive charging blows to the enemy ranks, not for fighting foot soldiers. In a fight between a cavalry man and a foot soldier, the foot soldier has ENORMOUS advantage. Basically, the cavalry man has just 1 angle to attack. And that angle can be quite easily blocked by a shield, while he's covering all your blows, he can stab you in the leg or if he has some type of pole-arm, he can drag you from the horse and I'm not even talking about what would happen if there was a foot soldier with a spear...

He can slice the horses legs and the rider will be on the ground and when he's got plate armor on, he's really not getting up, then it's very easy to stab him in the head through visor, to the groin, armpits etc.

So, you see, in a 1v1 fight it was almost impossible for the foot soldier to loose. Add up to that, Tyrion, eventhough he has very strong arms, has small reach, I REALLY don't think he could kill ANYBODY.

Look at you, trying to bring logic and the concept of reach into this discussion.

[Gneisenau]

When you are small as Tyrion, you have to worry about not get pushed around by the shear force of blows you receive, which makes Tyrion the killing machine highly unreal.