Northbound2.0 Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 I'll give you the Tyrion one, during the Blackwater; not Asha's. Please someone correct me, I'm wrong. But wasn't Asha and her men running through the woods, with piss poor lighting and just killing off targets as the appear? Moving quiet enough and taking out unsuspecting enemies, is not unbelievable. It's what Special Forces, around the globe do. "Hey, did you hear that?" "Hear what? There is nothing there, get back to your post." Meanwhile there is a SEAL/SAS/Spitznas standing behind you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twenty of House Goodmen Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 Surprised no one mentioned Bronn vs Vardis. Man in full plate armor wielding a shield. Then again, most knights in plate wield shields in asoiaf for some odd reason. Also, maybe this is just the show version, but the slowed down speed of Vardis was also unrealistic. Plate in real life is nowhere near as heavy as most people think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince of the North Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 Vardis was also old. So, while he could move around reasonably well in his full plate the younger and still more lightly armored Bronn was able to tire him out. That's how Bronn defeated him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twenty of House Goodmen Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 Vardis was also old. So, while he could move around reasonably well in his full plate the younger and still more lightly armored Bronn was able to tire him out. That's how Bronn defeated him.Was his age mentioned? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ckal Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 That is one thing that I cannot stand about this series is Tyrion in battle. A person who is constantly described as twisted and has to WADDLE around would get killed in an instant on a battlefield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ckal Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 Was his age mentioned? IIRC it was said that he was past his best/young years. I don't remember the exact quote though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince of the North Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 Was his age mentioned? I don't have the books electronically so I can't easily supply the quote/passage but, yes, I believe Vardis was described as "older", etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ckal Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 Tyrion's problem is caused by his small, stunted legs. His arms are fine. In fact, he has very strong arms. In the scene he is introduced in AGOT, we see him doing acrobatics and landing on his hands. And afterwards, he's able to strangle a healthy young woman. You are wrong in assuming that Tyrion is a disabled man, when his weakness is restricted to his legs. If we put Tyrion on horse, this problem disappears. If you also take into account this that he was a fully armored, flanked by a two knights of the kingsguard, and fighting peasants, I don't find his charge at the Blackwater hard to believe. Arms are strong compared to who? A child? A woman who's only strength training was laying on her back or riding someone? GRRM has gone on record stating that scene you described in AGOT where Tryion did acrobatics, is something if he were to do it over again he would remove. He stated he didn't fully understand the limitations of 'dwarfs' at that point in time. That certainly says something about the validity of that scene and GRRM's intention for the character. Tyrion also has incredibly short arms and incredibly short reach. Not to mention he has never been trained in battle anywhere near the extent of the rest of these soldiers. IIRC Tyrion uses a special saddle to stay on his mount (did he use this during the battles?), but if he doesn't he would certainly not be able stay atop his mount or control his horse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The hairy bear Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 GRRM has gone on record stating that scene you described in AGOT where Tryion did acrobatics, is something if he were to do it over again he would remove. He stated he didn't fully understand the limitations of 'dwarfs' at that point in time. Please, provide source when puting things in GRRM's mouth. See: I have taken the time to look for a quote from George saying the opposite. Tyrion also has incredibly short arms and incredibly short reach. Not to mention he has never been trained in battle anywhere near the extent of the rest of these soldiers. Again, the author doesn't agree with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sertravisredbeard Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 I didn't think Asha's battle in the woods was that unrealistic. Didn't she have, like 50 guys with her, but only 9 survived and surrendered? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Djinn Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 Every battle scene with Tyrion on it. Letal arrows from atop the Wall. Gregor's men taking castle after castle with ease. Stormlanders being bestd in the Kingswood by Hilltribes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twenty of House Goodmen Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 Stormlanders being bestd in the Kingswood by Hilltribes.I get the feeling that GRRM just loves to screw with the Stormlanders, becuase they are going to lose plenty of more battles in the next two books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanye Westeros Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 I think GRRM would take issue with there being unrealistic battle sequences. Nevertheless one must understand the series is a work of fiction and Tyrion and Asha are heros, or of a heroic quality. Honestly, I think being a midget might actually be a plus on the battlefield if one is armored well. I seem to remember that the average height of a roman legionary was around 5'5" compared to the average height of a german warrior of 6'2". The Roman advantage stemmed from discipline, training, organization, battle tactics, and better equipment for the most part. I doubt it had anything to do with the height difference. Although you're a smaller target you lose a lot of reach. For the most part Tyrion and Stannis' troops had mostly similarly styled equipment(besides the obvious plot armor), probably similar fighting tactics, etc. On top of that Tyrion isn't a trained fighter like Jamie is. I'm pretty sure it's just an unrealistic representation where a main character gets a freebie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronn Urgandy Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 Yeah, I mean, there's avoiding being noticed in the confusion because you're small, then there's being a wandering maniacal terror who's enemies flee in fear of you while you're laughing and taunting. His arms can be as strong as anyone's, they won't suddenly reach any farther though, and you do need a good pair of legs under you to be effective in a fight. In retrospect I'll accept that maybe they were fleeing Ser Mandon and Ser Balon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raving Stark the Mad Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 On top of that Tyrion isn't a trained fighter like Jamie is.Tyrion is a trained fighter. He just isn't gifted like Jamie is. But then he never took on anyone terribly great in a 1 on 1 fight did he? Plus he got wounded both times he was in battle and nearly died. There is your superman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanye Westeros Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 Tyrion is a trained fighter. He just isn't gifted like Jamie is. But then he never took on anyone terribly great in a 1 on 1 fight did he? Plus he got wounded both times he was in battle and nearly died. There is your superman. Blackwater he got wounded when he let his guard down to somebody on his side. Not really the same thing as an ungifted fighter mowing people down at will while remaining essentially untouched in the meat of a battle and then going on a smoke break and taking one to the face when he put his axe down to bum a lighter from a friend.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronn Urgandy Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 It's not as if Tyrion was taking down the Mountain or slaying Arthur Dayne. But apparently little people just get no respect in battle. What you are suggesting here is crass, I in absolutely no way hate little people and do not support Cersie's genocide against them! :uhoh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurogane Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 I get the feeling that GRRM just loves to screw with the Stormlanders, becuase they are going to lose plenty of more battles in the next two books. Stormlanders also have the lamest sigils. It is known. Seems like GRRM just gave up when he go to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raving Stark the Mad Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 At the Blackwater he made a single charge at the battering ram and killed a single Florent who wasn't wearing a helmet. He was surrounded by his entire force, mounted, in a wedge. Then everybody ran and he killed two more men from behind. He then led his force through a group of men who were crawling from the river, men burned and bleeding, coughing up water, staggering, most dying. Sounds like easy pickins to me for a midget on a horse with an ax. A single spearman on foot came at him and he chopped him up because he was mounted. His horse killed an archer. Another man tried to attack him with a dagger, while he was still mounted, and he chopped him in the neck. The whole time Mandon Moore and Balon Swann are with him. Finally he is dismounted and forced to fight on foot while on the bridge of ships. The entire time Moore and Swann are still there. I still don't see anything unbelievable in all that. Clue me in on what was unrealistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord of Lights Hound Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 Agreed with Raving Stark the Mad Realistic battle. Tyrion the lord (in all but title) is on the battle field, you can be sure every man on his side will be protecting his ass, every man at arms is looking out for his own lord. Not to mention his father reputation, ''Sorry Lord Tywin we let your son get speared by some random guy''. On the other side you have Tyrion Lannister the most valuable hostage on the battlefield. None of the mounted knights will kill him, the rest of the cannon fodder are at a serious disadvantage not on horse back, not protected by their retinue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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