Unrealistic Battle Sequences

[vox umbrarum]

Yep. A spear is a singularly poor weapon to use in a duel, due to the ease with which your opponent can control it.

Though you could argue, that had he chosen plate, longsword and shield like his opponent ... it would have been even more hopeless, wouldn't it? I mean in that case it would hvae come down to pure strength (and endurance), which the Mountain is by all means superior with.

'Realisticly' spoken, I suppose the best choice for Oberyn would have been, well ... to stay the fuck out and let Tyrion die

[Lord Reaver]

Though you could argue, that had he chosen plate, longsword and shield like his opponent ... it would have been even more hopeless, wouldn't it?

His opponent had plate and two-handed sword, unless I am mistaken.

If I was to meet someone like the Mountain with that, I would probably arm myself in like manner, and rely on speed and quickness (yes, you can still be quicker and faster while wearing plate). Naturally, the dagger would be a crucial part of my weaponry, should the opportunity present itself to step inside the big man's reach.

Also, having a visored helmet on would prevent the Mountain from simply beating my skull in. Well, make it harder to do so, anyway. :)

That said, yes, the Mountain is a fearsome opponent. In the real world, he would absolutely be among the all-time best warriors (whereas Barristan, Jaimie and Arthur Dayne would not), along with his brother who makes up for slightly less power with more speed.

Of course, this is fantasy land, so there we are.

[Ours if the Fury]

LOL. I'm not sure if he became a warrior supreme. He surprised and rode down a number of men who had just crossed a river full of fire and had seen most of their friends killed and were entirely demoralized and frightened. He never faced a determined or skilled opponent except in his first battle at the Green Fork, where he basically got lucky because he had a spike on his helmet.

Thankyou this statement is so correct!!!

:bowdown: :agree: :cheers:

[Ser Lepus]

Yep. A spear is a singularly poor weapon to use in a duel, due to the ease with which your opponent can control it.

He could have used a ahlspiess spear. Those supposedly were popular dueling weapons.

Ya I agree with this, if the Mountain was really 8 feet tall and muscular no man could kill him in single combat... I mean have you ever seen a seven foot tall person? They are massive, now imagine a foot higher and muscular... I never understood why Martin made him so large, at 7 feet he would still be a obvious giant without being unrealistic

I dunno. A person so tall should be quite slow, humans just aren't build to be that big. And he should suffer from joint pains and get tired fast.

If the Mountain were just below seven foot, on the other hand...there are basketball players who are that tall and are quite fast. Add weightlifter muscles, and a plate armor that doesn't allow you to end the fight fast sticking a chunk of iron into his body, and you have somebody very difficult to beat.

Not impossible, mind you, but the difference in skill would have to be huge just to have a chance.

[Lord Reaver]

He could have used a ahlspiess spear. Those supposedly were popular dueling weapons.

Hmm, yes. I've seen manuals for using those, and pollaxes, too. Never tried it myself, though. Thing is, that's not what I got from Oberyn's description. As you can see from the depictions, they have quite a large blade, thus extending the thread range (and making controlling it more difficult). Also, those weapons would have been used with full plate, in much the same way as Zweihanders, though with more focus on piercing, naturally.

Allow me to amend my earlier statement, then. If I were to duel the Mountain, and I had practiced the spear, an ahlspiess would be my choice. I would still wear full plate, however.

[Lost Melnibonean]

@Nyrhex: Are you sure he didn't have a special saddle rigged for him at the Battle of the Green Fork?

In their midst, riding on a tall red horse in a strange high saddle that cradled him back and front, was the queen's dwarf brother Tyrion Lannister, the one they called the Imp. --Sansa I, Clash

Clearly, Tyrion had such a saddle when he fought in the Battle of the Blackwater. And it would appear he had it at the Battle of the Green Fork. The only other time we see him in combat was on the High Road when he fought on foot.

[Mourneblade]

His opponent had plate and two-handed sword, unless I am mistaken.

If I was to meet someone like the Mountain with that, I would probably arm myself in like manner, and rely on speed and quickness (yes, you can still be quicker and faster while wearing plate). Naturally, the dagger would be a crucial part of my weaponry, should the opportunity present itself to step inside the big man's reach.

Also, having a visored helmet on would prevent the Mountain from simply beating my skull in. Well, make it harder to do so, anyway. :)

That said, yes, the Mountain is a fearsome opponent. In the real world, he would absolutely be among the all-time best warriors (whereas Barristan, Jaimie and Arthur Dayne would not), along with his brother who makes up for slightly less power with more speed.

Of course, this is fantasy land, so there we are.

If the Mountain hits you, unless you are insanely skilled with your full plate, sword, and board, its over. Even when the Red Viper blocked with his shield he was sent reeling. The Red Viper did not strike me as someone who could have competed with The Mountain in while wearing plate. His plan to keep him at distance and cause him to wear himself out was probably his best hope.

As to your other, someone like Jamie, or Selmy, or Dayne, has the skills, and the footwork to wear down The Mountain. The live and train in full plate, and know their strengths and limitations. The Mountain is unusual because, he too, understands that as well. He was definitely feared as a warrior, and very smart as well, although the headaches I'm sure gave him some limits to these.

Given that long spears historically matched up against great sword wielders, due to the greatswords difficulty in snapping the shaft outright, this battle does not seem so unrealistic IMHO.

[khalhotpie]

His opponent had plate and two-handed sword, unless I am mistaken.

If I was to meet someone like the Mountain with that, I would probably arm myself in like manner, and rely on speed and quickness (yes, you can still be quicker and faster while wearing plate). Naturally, the dagger would be a crucial part of my weaponry, should the opportunity present itself to step inside the big man's reach.

Also, having a visored helmet on would prevent the Mountain from simply beating my skull in. Well, make it harder to do so, anyway. :)

That said, yes, the Mountain is a fearsome opponent. In the real world, he would absolutely be among the all-time best warriors (whereas Barristan, Jaimie and Arthur Dayne would not), along with his brother who makes up for slightly less power with more speed.

Of course, this is fantasy land, so there we are.

stepping inside the big mans reach seems to have been the vipers mistake

he calculated so much but forgot the guys sheer physical strength up close is a deadly weapon too

[Mourneblade]

stepping inside the big mans reach seems to have been the vipers mistake

he calculated so much but forgot the guys sheer physical strength up close is a deadly weapon too

Only after he had impaled him to the ground...

[Gneisenau]

That said, GRRM puts in a lot of stuff that people ignore in other fantasy writing. You can't see too well in a helm. Swords break, fairly often. People slip and fall down in the mud and the blood and the beer.

Alot of knights are depicted fighting with their helmet open.

[khalhotpie]

Only after he had impaled him to the ground...

still wasnt wise to go near him while he still had fight left in him

[Hand to King Davos]

Only unrealistic battle sequence I can remember is the scene where Asha's ironborn are surprised by the northmen, but still manage to fight them off. One guy calls out "Nine" for his count, in Gimli fashion. Seems a little ridiculous to me given that they were surprised.

[Mourneblade]

still wasnt wise to go near him while he still had fight left in him

Well that certainly proved to be the case lol.

[khalhotpie]

Well that certainly proved to be the case lol.

Yeah stick and move was working he should have kept to it

[Defeatarion]

Only unrealistic battle sequence I can remember is the scene where Asha's ironborn are surprised by the northmen, but still manage to fight them off. One guy calls out "Nine" for his count, in Gimli fashion. Seems a little ridiculous to me given that they were surprised.

Yeah vastly outnumbered and surprised attacked....yet it seemed to last a long time....at lest Asha finally got it

[Nyrhex]

@Nyrhex: Are you sure he didn't have a special saddle rigged for him at the Battle of the Green Fork?

In their midst, riding on a tall red horse in a strange high saddle that cradled him back and front, was the queen's dwarf brother Tyrion Lannister, the one they called the Imp. --Sansa I, Clash

Clearly, Tyrion had such a saddle when he fought in the Battle of the Blackwater. And it would appear he had it at the Battle of the Green Fork. The only other time we see him in combat was on the High Road when he fought on foot.

Nice catch. I doubt he had it on the Green Fork, since if his father did not bring his armor, he would likely not bring him a specially trained war horse and saddle. In KL, in the months he had to prepare for siege, it is entirely possible that he had a saddle made for him there, and had spent some time training a new horse.

[Lost Melnibonean]

Nice catch. I doubt he had it on the Green Fork, since if his father did not bring his armor, he would likely not bring him a specially trained war horse and saddle. In KL, in the months he had to prepare for siege, it is entirely possible that he had a saddle made for him there, and had spent some time training a new horse.

The passage comes from his entry into KL. He had just journeyed from his father's camp at the Trident.

[Nyrhex]

The passage comes from his entry into KL. He had just journeyed from his father's camp at the Trident.

Then yes, he had that on the Green Fork as well. Which seems.... odd. If he lost his horse and saddle, and his father left his armor behind, where did he get a new horse and saddle? He can't get it in the camp. Either GRRM slipped on this one, or Tywin bothered to bring a horse but not the armor.

EDIT:

Damn. Tyrion never lost his horse. I watched the first season before starting the books. Now I looked back, and Tyrion and Bronn leave the Vale mounted...

[The Bastard of Summer]

Tyrion in any battle, but mostly the Blackwater. Also, arrows shot to the top of a 700ft Wall and still being lethal...

This. I hate this.

[Cordelia Baratheon]

The Scots actually captured some castles with a small force a la Theon Greyjoy.

I have no doubt that throughout history small forces captured some castles, but none of them were the residence of a KING.

I would just like to draw your attention to Roxburgh Castle.

A royal castle built on "impregnable ground", founded by a King and taken by a small force disguised as cows (hows that for unrealistic?).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roxburgh_Castle

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Roxburgh_Castle