Chatty Duelist Posted February 19, 2014 Author Share Posted February 19, 2014 Right blame Robb for Edmure's screw up, lol I suppose Robb's to blame for freeing Jamie Lannister too You're oversimplifying. Edmure did his job. What more could be asked? No, she does not. She has a valyrian steel dagger and Petyr's story about how he lost it to Tyrion. That's all she has. Hardly evidence by any reconing. Not evidence in hindsight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Antony Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 keeping thinking that, keep thinking that, lol It's true. Robb is the only one to blame for his cause failing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Cat isn't to blame for the War in the Riverlands, Cat and Ned are responsible for helping the Lannister getting the upper hand. No, she does not. She has a valyrian steel dagger and Petyr's story about how he lost it to Tyrion. That's all she has. Hardly evidence by any reconing.true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Reaver Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Not evidence in hindsight. It's not hindsight. She has all the facts available at the time she takes the decision. For the record, I thought her action against Tyrion was crazy the first time I read it, too, long before I knew he didn't do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoamingRonin Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Catelyn capturing Tyrion was smart. She needed her family to back her up and they didn't. Ned was Hand of the King for crying out loud. He was in King's Landing to get to the bottom of Jon Arryn's death, Catelyn had every right to believe she was aiding him in that mission. I knew Tyrion didn't do it but I also knew Lannisters = BAD PEOPLE. Having one as a prisoner had to be good. Robb should have shared his plans with Edmure but he didn't. There's no reason for him not to do this. I actually consider it a plothole of sorts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Antony Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 I have no problem with her taking Tyrion. It's Lysas crazy ass decision to let Tyrion talk her into giving him a trial by combat when he should of just been kept prisoner that fucked things up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sifth Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 You're oversimplifying. Edmure did his job. What more could be asked? Not evidence in hindsight. his one job was to hold a castle, no more and no less the guy wanted to be a hero though and screwed the war up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chatty Duelist Posted February 19, 2014 Author Share Posted February 19, 2014 his one job was to hold a castle, no more and no less the guy wanted to be a hero though and screwed the war up He was asked to hold Riverrun, and he held it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crow's Third Eye Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 his one job was to hold a castle, no more and no less the guy wanted to be a hero though and screwed the war up The issue would have been easily avoided if Robb had shared his plans with Edmure though, as a sensible commander would. You can hardly say its an unlikely scenario that anyone (not just Edmure) would attack an enemy force marching through their territory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Carson Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Her mistake was going south in the first place. (She woke up from a mini coma, has not eaten any food in days, and decides my Husband the 2nd most powerful man in the realm needs me to help him. She should've just sent Ser Roddrick Cassel with the dagger and a memorized message. She then could have captured Tyrion when he came to Winterfell. BOOM! Robb goes South and captures Jamie. Then you have Tyrion and Jamie. Catelyn also would've been better off going to Riverrun then the Vale after kidnapping Tyrion. It's much closer and less Hill Tribesmen to kill her. (She could've easily have died on her way) Arguing against the Greatjon being the commander of the 2nd party was also not the best idea. She should have killed Jamie. Bringing the Karstarks back into the fold. (With the Karstarks they don't need the Freys as much) Edmure does nothing to help the cause and should already be married with children (He's already like 30, IIRC)... Seriously just pick a bride; Edmure's a total catch. If he had married a Tarly, Royce, or a Frey (before) they would've been much better off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Reaver Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Catelyn capturing Tyrion was smart. I knew Tyrion didn't do it but I also knew Lannisters = BAD PEOPLE. Having one as a prisoner had to be good. No, it was ridiculously stupid. But I suppose we'll just have to agree to disagree on that one. If you ask me, bad people are people who go around kidnapping other people based on little to no evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alayne's Shadow. Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 No, she does not. She has a valyrian steel dagger and Petyr's story about how he lost it to Tyrion. That's all she has. Hardly evidence by any reconing. That is evidence, considering the facts, even Ned thought so, and no reason to doubt an old family friend. And she hadn't, you know, entered that inn with the clear objective to capture him. He recognized her and she had to make a choice that, not using hindsight, seemed more sound of mind, especially if such man is supposed to be her son's possible murderer. It was smart when we look at her possibilities at the time, even if a blunder on hindsight. Well, we'll just have to agree on disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boarsbane Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Tywin is to blame for raiding the Riverlands. Catelyn didn't force Tywin to do it. You don't yank the lion's tail and expect him not to retaliate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirRunty Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Yeah, I think people are generally too harsh on those two. Not everyone is a genius commander or is able to cope with such grief as though it's nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alty732 Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Cat is not justified in her hate for Jon. Jon did nothing, she does not have to love him, sure. But hate him? A child lost without a mother? She is cruel in this regard. I would hate Ned, and take care of Jon because he needs that. He is an innocent child. Growing up without either parental figure can cause troubles for the child. This is Cat's biggest mistake. Otherwise I like her.And who hates Edmure? He's likeable and stupid. A great combo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasta11 Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 You don't yank the lion's tail and expect him not to retaliate. Except the lion was already waiting to pounce way before his cub basically forced you to grab his tail. See, I can do dubious analogies too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 And who hates Edmure? He's likeable and stupid. A great combo. Like uncle like nephew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bebeber Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 I find it really hard to warm to Catelyn. Nothing to do with Jon though, more how she wafts around Robb like a stale fart, sticking her oar in left, right and centre. Leaving Bran and Rickon was a bit strange for me as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarkInWinterfell Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Cat is not justified in her hate for Jon. Jon did nothing, she does not have to love him, sure. But hate him? A child lost without a mother? She is cruel in this regard. I would hate Ned, and take care of Jon because he needs that. He is an innocent child. Growing up without either parental figure can cause troubles for the child. This is Cat's biggest mistake. Otherwise I like her.And who hates Edmure? He's likeable and stupid. A great combo. He didn't grow up 'without either parental figure'. He had Ned. Ned, who had an actual duty towards him and had claimed him as a son. Lots of people in Winterfell openly cared for Jon from Robb, Arya and Bran to other members of the household. Nobody is saying her behaviour was fair, at least I'm not. I'm saying it was understandable and Cat wasn't a squishy ball of love and fuzziness that should be expected to have maternal, loving feelings for Jon. Life isn't as simple as that and Cat isn't as straightforward as that. As I said in an earlier post, I also don't see any evidence that she hated Jon. So clearly am already coming at this topic from a different POV to other readers. She massively resented him, yes. Didn't like him. Hate is a strong word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boarsbane Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Except the lion was already waiting to pounce way before his cub basically forced you to grab his tail. See, I can do dubious analogies too. I don't see how Tyrion forced Cat to abduct him, and if Tywin was just waiting for an excuse to attack the Riverlands, kidnapping Tyrion is more idiotic because it gives him an excuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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