EW Reveals 7 Season Plan

[Starkfyre Barathyrell]

From where I stand, Sansa's AFFC material seems a bit thin to stretch over a whole season, but if you assume Sansa will be in a maximum of eight out of ten episodes, and you throw in some non-book filler Vale worldbuilding/LF exposition scenes, getting to eight episodes might be fairly easily accomplished, even without some sort of filler side plot a la Theon. Sansa had very little to do in the first part of ASOS, and the writers managed to pad out her appearances in Season 3 when they were killing time until the wedding in 3x08. Whether they did a good job of it is another question entirely, but they did find things for her to do.

for all we know the hill tribes could kidnap her and littlefinger will be forced to go out and find her. wouldn't be the weirdest change made already.

[Winnief]

From where I stand, Sansa's AFFC material seems a bit thin to stretch over a whole season,

Again Newstar, I'm pretty sure, next season they'll be getting into TWOW territory for Sansa.

[Faint]

From where I stand, Sansa's AFFC material seems a bit thin to stretch over a whole season, but if you assume Sansa will be in a maximum of eight out of ten episodes, and you throw in some non-book filler Vale worldbuilding/LF exposition scenes, getting to eight episodes might be fairly easily accomplished, even without some sort of filler side plot a la Theon. Sansa had very little to do in the first part of ASOS, and the writers managed to pad out her appearances in Season 3 when they were killing time until the wedding in 3x08. Whether they did a good job of it is another question entirely, but they did find things for her to do.

I suspect they will try something like that but I do not have much faith they can make it work. They will be done with Sansa's material from A Storm of Swords after the next episode, which means if they do not want to get into The Winds of Winter material, they will have to figure out a way to stretch Sansa's arc in A Feast for Crows over 12 episodes.

Now, even if we go ahead and eliminate Sansa completely from three of those episodes, that still leaves nine episodes she has to appear in. As a reminder, she has a grand total of three chapters in A Feast for Crows and they are not very meaty chapters by any stretch of the imagination. So if they decide go down this route, they will have to invent a whole lot of new material as a stop gap to keep her story going. At the very least, enough to fill four or five episodes.

It can be done but it is not a decision I much care for, especially when the conclusion to the whole thing is Littlefinger's scheme to marry her to Harry the Heir. As climaxes go, especially compared to this season, that is going to be a big letdown to television-only viewers.

[Winnief]

They will be done with Sansa's material from A Storm of Swords after the next episode, which means if they do not want to get into The Winds of Winter material, they will have to figure out a way to stretch Sansa's arc in A Feast for Crows over 12 episodes.

Now, even if we go ahead and eliminate Sansa completely from three of those episodes, that still leaves nine episodes she has to appear in. As a reminder, she has a grand total of three chapters in A Feast for Crows and they are not very meaty chapters by any stretch of the imagination. So if they decide go down this route, they will have to invent a whole lot of new material as a stop gap to keep her story going. At the very least, enough to fill four or five episodes.

Which is exactly why I think they do want to go into TWOW territory-and may even be speeding things along for that on purpose, "remember we meet Anya Waynwood and Bronze Yohn this season which I think will cover the events of Sansa I in AFFC-a whole third of her material for the final two books," and that we might actually meet Harry in person next year.

[Newstar]

I think that assuming whatever's left of AFFC/ADWD after Season 4 will be crammed into Season 5, the writers will go to some pains to have everything roughly line up again by the end of Season 5 after moving so many things around in Season 4. That would mean that the characters would end Season 5 roughly where they ended it at the end of AFFC/ADWD, and that puts Sansa square in the conversation with Littlefinger where he tells her about his marriage plan for her. That assumes that the Sansa chapter bumped from ADWD won't wind up in Season 5, but I think the writers will try to get things "on track" by having all the plotline ending points for the end of AFFC/ADWD line up.

I suspect they will try something like that but I do not have much faith they can make it work.

Well, sure, but whether something will be done well is an entirely different question as to whether they can and will do something in the first place.

They will be done with Sansa's material from A Storm of Swords after the next episode, which means if they do not want to get into The Winds of Winter material, they will have to figure out a way to stretch Sansa's arc in A Feast for Crows over 12 episodes. Now, even if we go ahead and eliminate Sansa completely from three of those episodes, that still leaves nine episodes she has to appear in.

Not quite. We know that 4x09 is an all-Wall episode, so it's really only 11 episodes to speak of. Knock off another three, and that leaves eight, including what will likely be a non-book scene in 4x10 where she meets Bronze Yohn Royce and Lady Waynwood...unless they're jumping the gun on the meeting with Bronze Yohn and Lady Waynwood in AFFC, which strikes me as highly unlikely.

As a reminder, she has a grand total of three chapters in A Feast for Crows and they are not very meaty chapters by any stretch of the imagination. So if they decide go down this route, they will have to invent a whole lot of new material as a stop gap to keep her story going. At the very least, enough to fill four or five episodes.

I really don't think it will be a problem. Look at how Arya's storyline has been dealt with in Season 4 so far to stretch some not very meaty material into several episodes: a lot of non-book material that doesn't go so far as to introduce new plots but fleshes out the characters more, often only one or two scenes per episode, a little scene here and there with conversation between Arya and her mentor where he enlightens her as to The Way Things Are...much like the sort of thing that would be easy to write for Sansa and Littlefinger. There hasn't been a lot of time in Season 4 for Littlefinger explicitly tutoring Sansa in the game, apart from the little bit in 4x04, so they could expand on that in Season 5.

It can be done but it is not a decision I much care for, especially when the conclusion to the whole thing is Littlefinger's scheme to marry her to Harry the Heir. As climaxes go, especially compared to this season, that is going to be a big letdown to television-only viewers.

It's not really about Harry the Heir, though. It's about Littlefinger finally unveiling his grand plan for Sansa at the end of AFFC, much as Varys finally unveils his grand plan for Aegon at the end of ADWD. It's also about the readers not knowing how Sansa will react to this plan, which will be a big indicator as to which direction her character is headed.

[Winnief]

I think Newstar you're assuming, that they can't have Sansa go beyond AFFC next season because they want all the storylines to still "match up" in terms of timing. I'm just not sure that's true.

I mean they're already bringing in stuff from ADWD for Bran this season, and I think next season they'll be using his visions to set up the Big Reveal among other things. We also already have Brienne and Pod road-tripping this season and I have a strong suspicion they'll meet LSH for that reveal.

See thing, is we don't know how much ground the characters and their storylines have to cover in Books 6 &7-but D&D do. And Martin's own wife told him she thought he might have to make it eight books. So depending on how many events simply have to happen, D&D might be thinking it makes more sense with certain characters to hurry things along and make progress happen much more rapidly than in the books, (which let's be honest tended to drag a bit and had too much unresolved-they'd work if filmed that way) with some of these storylines like Sansa's simply so they can fit everything in.

Also if as prophesized Sansa slays the Giant/Titan (aka LF) then she's going to have go a long way as a character to be capable of doing that. We heard Tyrion say "Sansa's not a murderer. Not yet." Obvious foreshadowing, so again they have to have some big developments take place for her to get to that outcome.

[Caerl Targaryen]

They could also just invent material for Sansa to stretch things out a bit. They've already done it for other characters. What would be stopping them from doing the same with Sansa?

[kn1tt3r]

It's true that in season 5 there isn't really a lot to do for some characters. On the other hand, there are so many new storylines and locations that it's almost a blessing that they don't have to cover as much Sansa, Bran or even Dany in S5.

[oierem]

They could also just invent material for Sansa to stretch things out a bit. They've already done it for other characters. What would be stopping them from doing the same with Sansa?

What kind of material? Inventing material is very difficult because it's just filler (nothing important can change). And with characters isolated from one another, without any change of interacting together...

[Grrrod]

They could also just invent material for Sansa to stretch things out a bit. They've already done it for other characters. What would be stopping them from doing the same with Sansa?

This. The lords declarant sub-plot could be expanded into something much more visible, and by that I meant having some actual strife in the vale rather than just posturing and a limp siege.

[HairGrowsBack]

This. The lords declarant sub-plot could be expanded into something much more visible, and by that I meant having some actual strife in the vale rather than just posturing and a limp siege.

I think this would be a terrible idea.

1) If they're planning for 7 seasons, they need to keep a good pace so as not to rush everything in the last two seasons. Having some arcs advance in TWoW territory next season would help cram everything in.

2) Filler is often action induced, so that at least people will be entertained: Craster's keep, Asha's attack of the Dreadfort, .. all fight scenes, or banter for Arya/The Hound. Sansa is basically stuck at the Eyrie, with very few people to talk to : I really don't see what they can have her do that won't feel pointless tbh.

[Winnief]

I think this would be a terrible idea.

1) If they're planning for 7 seasons, they need to keep a good pace so as not to rush everything in the last two seasons. Having some arcs advance in TWoW territory next season would help cram everything in.

2) Filler is often action induced, so that at least people will be entertained: Craster's keep, Asha's attack of the Dreadfort, .. all fight scenes, or banter for Arya/The Hound. Sansa is basically stuck at the Eyrie, with very few people to talk to : I really don't see what they can have her do that won't feel pointless tbh.

:cheers:

Also, the fight on Craster's Keep was done in part to establish Jon's growing role as a leader among the NW and thus helps set him up to be choice for LC. It thus plays a critical part of his character development.

The attack on the Dreadfort was arguably the horrific and fatal final installment of Theon/Reek's storyline to the point where he's become utterly assimilated as Ramsay's creature-(that bath scene will go down in legend) so that if/when he does escape it will be all the more dramatic for that. Whether they do fake Arya or not, I think he's going to flee with one of Ramsay's intended victims.

It was also an important point about Asha and the IB as well-and sets up for why Theon's no longer a factor as far as Asha is concerned during whatever developments happen next i.e. Balon's death and the arrival of Euron.

So in order to make battle with the LD a worthwhile pursuit it would have to offer a chance to grow and develop Sansa's character, (and give ST a chance to showcase her chops,) and I don't know how they'd do that without having Sansa play a much more active role in the politicking around all that which seems unlikely.

[Newstar]

So in order to make battle with the LD a worthwhile pursuit it would have to offer a chance to grow and develop Sansa's character, (and give ST a chance to showcase her chops,) and I don't know how they'd do that without having Sansa play a much more active role in the politicking around all that which seems unlikely.

That's a good point. It seems from the 4x07 promo, the 4x08 episode description ("Littlefinger's motives are questioned") and the way that the show tends to touch on all storylines in the finales, that there will be not only "Only Cat," but two eps' worth of post-ASOS material in Season 4. Now that "Only Cat" is in Episode 7, I do think that whatever the show does with the Marillion or Marillion-replacement patsy storyline, it will be dealt with in Season 4, and that clears out a good chunk of Sansa's AFFC storyline. The introduction of Anya Waynwood and Bronze Yohn Royce, assuming it takes material from the books and isn't just a non-book filler scene, could clear out even more. That doesn't leave a heck of a lot for Season 5, I agree.

Also, I'm kind of surprised that the remaining ASOS Sansa chapters in Season 4 have been dealt with so briskly. I expected the show to stretch out "Only Cat" until episode 10, because it was such a great cutoff point in the books, but no, it really seems to be full steam ahead with Sansa's storyline. So I can understand why some might think that the acceleration of Sansa's storyline without dillydallying in Season 4 means that we'll get TWOW material in Season 6. I guess I just find it hard to believe that the writers would press ahead with Sansa's TWOW storyline in Season 5 while it will be all they can do to cover the arcs of other major characters with a ton of ADWD material in one season. I can see them wanting to keep everyone more or less "aligned," even if that means reducing Sansa's Season 5 screentime or giving her a lot of filler material...although I guess you could argue that everyone's already "misaligned," since Sansa's done with her ASOS arc in episode 7 whereas other characters will probably be stuck in their ASOS arcs until the end of the season (Arya, Tyrion, etc.), and other characters yet have vaulted forward into AFFC/ADWD territory (Brienne, Theon, Bran, Dany, etc.).

[Frey Pies]

That's a good point. It seems from the 4x07 promo, the 4x08 episode description ("Littlefinger's motives are questioned") and the way that the show tends to touch on all storylines in the finales, that there will be not only "Only Cat," but two eps' worth of post-ASOS material in Season 4. Now that "Only Cat" is in Episode 7, I do think that whatever the show does with the Marillion or Marillion-replacement patsy storyline, it will be dealt with in Season 4, and that clears out a good chunk of Sansa's AFFC storyline. The introduction of Anya Waynwood and Bronze Yohn Royce, assuming it takes material from the books and isn't just a non-book filler scene, could clear out even more. That doesn't leave a heck of a lot for Season 5, I agree.

Also, I'm kind of surprised that the remaining ASOS Sansa chapters in Season 4 have been dealt with so briskly. I expected the show to stretch out "Only Cat" until episode 10, because it was such a great cutoff point in the books, but no, it really seems to be full steam ahead with Sansa's storyline. So I can understand why some might think that the acceleration of Sansa's storyline without dillydallying in Season 4 means that we'll get TWOW material in Season 6. I guess I just find it hard to believe that the writers would press ahead with Sansa's TWOW storyline in Season 5 while it will be all they can do to cover the arcs of other major characters with a ton of ADWD material in one season. I can see them wanting to keep everyone more or less "aligned," even if that means reducing Sansa's Season 5 screentime or giving her a lot of filler material...although I guess you could argue that everyone's already "misaligned," since Sansa's done with her ASOS arc in episode 7 whereas other characters will probably be stuck in their ASOS arcs until the end of the season (Arya, Tyrion, etc.), and other characters yet have vaulted forward into AFFC/ADWD territory (Brienne, Theon, Bran, Dany, etc.).

They obviously have something in mind for Sansa and Bran. I cannot wait to find out what it is! Also, I'm intrigued by what Davos' might be doing next season.

[Faint]

The problem with assuming that they will advance Sansa's story is that we do not know whether it intersects with the storylines of other characters in the early stages of the The Winds of Winter. That would be a limiting factor in pushing it ahead into unpublished material. We cannot simply take for given that Sansa's material will continue to operate in isolation, especially as the series gets closer to its conclusion. That being the case, I still think the more likely option is that they showcase Sansa less next season, and when they do, there will be plenty of invented material. I do think we will be seeing Harry the Heir before we read about him but I have a hard time believing the show will get to the meat of Sansa's story in The Winds of Winter before the sixth season.

[Ranzadule]

I wish they had trimmed Ramsay Snow's stuff to zero and that "Yara" had euthanized Theon. That would give us more time for the laughable odd couple romp lovingly known as "Arry an Da Hound." <3

[Duncan the Lunk'n]

Hey everybody, nothing really add here just wanted to get my 100th post!!!!!!

[Annara Snow]

I find it really hard to believe that they've accelerated Sansa's story in season 4 just in order to stretch it out ridiculously in season 5 and be forced to make up a lot of material. (And how much can you even make up with her in Vale, as opposed to someone who's travelling around the Riverlands or north of the Wall and having all kinds of adventures?) It defies logic. Sansa has very little material in AFFC to begin with, especially if you remove her internal thoughts.

They could have easily stretched out Sansa's story this season (much more easily than Bran's), have her appear in 5-6 episodes and have Only Cat in the finale. Most people expected them to do that. Instead, she's in 8 episodes, and two of them are going to be after Lysa's death. What this tells me is that Sansa probably has a huge story and lots of material post-AFFC/ADWD and that this is why they're starting it/setting it up early instead of cramming it later on. (However, I'm sure they aren't going to do HtH this season, because that hasn't been set up at all, would need to much to set up, and would have no emotional resonance, for reasons already explained. But I do think they may have LF tells Sansa that he will help her retake Winterfell.) For all we know, she may have as many chapters and stuff happening in TWOW as Jon had in ADWD.

Now, about aligning her storyline with the others; well, it's not like the show has been trying to keep all the storylines happening at the same pace as they do in the books. And the question is, which storylines does her storyline even have to be aligned with? And which storylines will not go further than ADWD in season 5? We can't assume that all storylines will finish where they finish in ADWD and that they won't go to TWOW. In fact, I'm sure that at least three if not more will have to use TWOW material next season, even if it's just chapters that were moved from ADWD. The only storylines that I'm sure will not go into TWOW next season are Jon/the Wall and Cersei/King's Landing. Stannis & the Boltons is an open question - if the Battle of Ice does not happen before Jon's stabbing, then I think it will be early in season 6. If it happens before Jon's stabbing, then it will be at the end of season 5, because Jon's stabbing is finale material. With Bran, they could use his greensight to reveal things from the past and they may emphasize him communicating/influencing other events, as with Theon. But there's no way that they are going to keep both battles out of season 5 as GRRM kept them out from ADWD; and, with the way they've already done a part of Dany's Meereen storyline this season, I think the Battle of Fire will near the end of/at the end of season 5. (And GRRM himself has already revealed a lot about the battle through the released chapters.) The other two storylines that I can't see not using TWOW material are Sansa and Brienne/Jaime/LS, because there really isn't much to do next season with what they're doing with Brienne this season, and I can't see Brienne needing an entire season to get to Jaime and popping up just at the end to meet him, without resolution to that story. At the very least, they will do Sansa's chapter that was moved from ADWD - and if they include just that, GRRM will probably release it as he did the "Mercy" chapter - if the book isn't released by then. But I wouldn't be surprised if there's more than one chapter material for Sansa in season 5.

Second question, does Sansa's storyline have to align with the others in the same way as in the book, and which ones? I doubt that there's much overlap with the North storyline or King's Landing or Meereen early on. The storyline that's most likely to be aligned with Sansa's at this point is the other one that really needs TWOW material for season 5 - Jaime/Brienne/LS, since they are looking for Sansa. And keep in mind that GRRM himself has probably changed his original plans on the pacing of storylines since he got rid of the 5-year gap. The gap was there to allow the kids to grow up in order to be old enough to convincingly do whatever they're supposed to do in the second (now third) part of the story. It didn't work because GRRM realized that the other people wouldn't just stop doing things for 5 years. The show doesn't have to wait so long to age up the kids since they're already a couple of years older than they are in the book - and the actors are a couple more years older than that, so the show better try making it seem like more time has passed than it did in the books at this point, because it's not going to be convincing for long to claim that Bran is 12 etc... Which, at the very least, diminishes the need to stretch out their storylines until they grow up and end their training period; the show can accelerate their storylines. I also expect the show to at least hint before the end of season 5 that Arya is coming back to Westeros.

[Winnief]

The other two storylines that I can't see not using TWOW material are Sansa and Brienne/Jaime/LS, because there really isn't much to do next season with what they're doing with Brienne this season, and I can't see Brienne needing an entire season to get to Jaime and popping up just at the end to meet him, without resolution to that story. At the very least, they will do Sansa's chapter that was moved from ADWD - and if they include just that, GRRM will probably release it as he did the "Mercy" chapter - if the book isn't released by then. But I wouldn't be surprised if there's more than one chapter material for Sansa in season 5.

Second question, does Sansa's storyline have to align with the others in the same way as in the book, and which ones? I doubt that there's much overlap with the North storyline or King's Landing or Meereen early on. The storyline that's most likely to be aligned with Sansa's at this point is the other one that really needs TWOW material for season 5 - Jaime/Brienne/LS, since they are looking for Sansa.

:cheers:

Also check out the following episode descriptions...

Episode #38: “The Mountain and the Viper”

SUNDAY, JUNE 1 (9:00-10:00 p.m. ET/PT)

Unexpected visitors arrive in Mole’s Town; Littlefinger’s motives are questioned; Ramsay tries to prove himself to his father; Tyrion’s fate is decided.

Written by David Benioff & D. B. Weiss; directed by Alex Graves.

Episode #39: “The Watchers on the Wall”

SUNDAY, JUNE 8 (9:00-10:00 p.m. ET/PT)

Jon Snow and the Night’s Watch face a big challenge.

Written by David Benioff & D. B. Weiss; directed by Neil Marshall.

Episode #40: “The Children”

SUNDAY, JUNE 15 (9:00-10:00 p.m. ET/PT)

Circumstances change after an unexpected arrival from north of the Wall; Dany must face harsh realities; Bran learns more about his destiny; Tyrion sees the truth about his situation.

Written by David Benioff & D. B. Weiss; directed by Alex Graves.

So clearly Bran's story arc is moving much more rapidly, and so is Sansa's as well-from that description it sounds like the Lords Declarent will show up in Episode 8. Which since Sansa is sure to appear in the finale, means we'll probably be seeing her then established as foster mum to SR, de facto Lady of the Vale-and learning more about LF's plans for her. Though, I doubt those plans will turn out quite the way LF expects...

[xanman]

With all of the new characters and storylines that need to be introduced next season I can easily see Bran and Sansa being in only in 3-4 of the episodes in season 5. Bran can start with a little history and training from Bloodraven, some visions in another episode or two, and him communicating to Theon through the weirwood in Winterfell in a later season episode, Jojen paste and him blending into the tree more permanently in the finale. Sansa's story can easily be shown in a similar way throughout the season with perhaps one or two WOW chapters to end it if they are exciting enough. Brienne depends on where she ends this season but she also doesn't have to be in it very much.