EW Reveals 7 Season Plan

[Lord Varys]

I don't know if Mace himself is really that incompetent, nor do I think the Reach gang surrounding him is that competent. Tarly is a good military commander, but that's really it. He is neither learned nor exceptionally smart. The man even moves his lips when he reads. He would have been a good Hand to finish the war, as Jaime suggested, but not during peace times (and that really says a lot about his capabilities, if you ask me). And all I remember about Redwyne is that he really happy when the Iron Throne dropped a certain tax the Arbor was forced to pay before, and that he didn't really give a fig about Tywin's involvement in the death of Elia and her children.

Mathis Rowan, on the other hand, is respected and well-liked throughout the whole Realm. Even by Catelyn, who seemed to judge the men following Renly rather harshly.

But I really don't find that Mace is very stupid. The man knows what he wants, and he wants a lot. Tyrion realized as much during the council session when the Tyrells claimed a lot of lands and titles for themselves. All we know is that he likes to present himself as a much better commander than he actually, and that his mother thinks his idea to crown Renly was a terrible. We don't know if Olenna did say that as loudly back when Renly and Loras pitched the idea to Mace, so we can't know for sure that she was as adamantly against that whole thing as she later suggests.

Mace Tyrell is actually a very complex character. He is ambitious, powerful, and rich - while at the same time being not the smartest guy under the sun. That would be a great character to play for a talented actor. And the books would still give enough opportunity to make him a funny occasionally. Remember that stupid hand-shaped throne?

[graaf_x]

From "New Characters" featurette:

http://youtu.be/pM3vZxrFo24?t=5m26s

Maybe later Mace will show that he's "wise, old cookie". Let's be patient.

[Petyr Patter]

Does the show really need a competent Mace?

And while certainly his character has been changed, I don't see his impact on the viewer as much different. Olenna called him Lord Oaf of Highgarden IIRC. That's pure comical relief. Only that talking about someone isn't what looks good on screen, so they have him act out what (emotion-wise) we read about him in the books.

It also kind of shows that the small council is where the big guys play, and if you don't match up to their game, you get under the wheels. If they only show competent people on it, there is no contrast.

Well, I'm pretty close to starting a "stop butchering Mace's character thread." However, the question isn't competence. Yes, Mace is a fool. However, they are portraying him as the completely wrong sort of fool. The show presents him in awe of being in the presence of the great and mighty Lord Tywin. The book Mace is almost the opposite, a man who is completely oblivious to how out of his league he is.

He is also a man who is greedy for praise and puts way to much emphasis on his social status. Tywin telling him to fetch some paper? He'd respond that it's Eunuch work.

[graaf_x]

.

You have deleted your post, but as the show once again set series high, I need to quote it.

A million fewer viewers last week could make them go back to the book story. Just sayin

Oh well. Now they will send Arya and Bill Clinton in space to fight with Nazis.

[AnotherCrannogman]

That is great news. This show seems more variable in ratings the most.

[DameofThrones]

They are very clear that this will be seven seasons. And that probably feels long enough as it is for them.

It's a massive effort and you're very lucky to get 7 sesasons of a show like this. They clearly have every intention of finishing this story in 7 seasons and will use whatever info they can get from GRRM.

I don't think Lombardo even leaves an opening for an 8th season btw, if you look at the wording.

I haven't heard anything about this - are the producers just going to be getting pieces of WoW and ADoS if they aren't out before the seasons start? And ask GRRM to fill in the gaps? Makes me nervous.

[Petyr Patter]

I haven't heard anything about this - are the producers just going to be getting pieces of WoW and ADoS if they aren't out before the seasons start? And ask GRRM to fill in the gaps? Makes me nervous.

Supposedly Martin told them in at least broad strokes how the season ends. He almost certainly has let them read unpublished material, such as chapters originally planned for a Dance of Dragons that got moved to Winds of Winter. How much he has told the writers is limited by how much he himself as figured out.

[Colonel Green]

I haven't heard anything about this - are the producers just going to be getting pieces of WoW and ADoS if they aren't out before the seasons start? And ask GRRM to fill in the gaps? Makes me nervous.

GRRM has already given them the major details for all the characters' arcs. Whether, when they start writing the seasons based on unpublished material, he'll go into even greater detail, we can't say. I should think it's a decent possibility that any unpublished TWOW material that's available will be furnished for their use.

[Caerl Targaryen]

GRRM has already given them the major details for all the characters' arcs. Whether, when they start writing the seasons based on unpublished material, he'll go into even greater detail, we can't say. I should think it's a decent possibility that any unpublished TWOW material that's available will be furnished for their use.

It's certainly a possibility but it isn't an absolute guaranteed thing like so many seem to believe around here.

Telling the story they want to tell and making sure GRRM can tell the story he wants to tell without screwing him over will be tricky. On one hand, they have to do what's best for the show. But on the other, the show isn't the only consideration in this situation. I know some around here act like that's the case, but D&D aren't just going to spoil 18 years of George's work. They're working with him not against him.

The books and the show are separate entities and it makes sense that they've asked for GRRM's input and approval when it comes to the broad strokes of the last few seasons. HBO has rights to the ASOIAF universe, the characters, and the story but that does not automatically mean the show will follow it exactly, even with the bigger events. Contingency plans in case material isn't published have likely been figured out.

While I can't guess what they'll actually do any better than anyone else here due to not actually being D&D, Bryan Cogman, or GRRM, I don't think it's unreasonable to assume they won't be screwing over GRRM just because some fans really want the show to do that and those same fans want the story to conclude faster than he's able to write it. It's more complex than that and the people involved aren't blindly charging ahead.

[DaveyJoe]

Apparently they all ready used details from the unpublished Mercy chapter, so I think that shows their priority is the show.

[Caerl Targaryen]

Apparently they all ready used details from the unpublished Mercy chapter, so I think that shows their priority is the show.

Sort of. It's quite a bit different. The context is different and the scene plays out completely differently aside from a few similar lines of dialogue. The only thing that's really the same is the end result.

Also, that chapter was effectively "published" before the episode in question aired. I think this shows they actually talk to GRRM and coordinate these things. Imagine that!

[DaveyJoe]

Posted on a website or read at a convention does not equal published.

As for them working closely together, George keeps saying they might spend multiple seasons on AFFC/ADWD, do a prequel season, and/or end the series with a movie! He's either out of the loop or flat out lying.

[Caerl Targaryen]

Posted on a website or read at a convention does not equal published.

As for them working closely together, George keeps saying they might spend multiple seasons on AFFC/ADWD, do a prequel season, and/or end the series with a movie! He's either out of the loop or flat out lying.

That's why I said "published." Posted where it's available to everyone for free is pretty close to the same as published.

[DaveyJoe]

Well I expect the show to "spoil" the books, because the producers want the best "ending" for their series, and that's probably exactly what GRRM has "outlined" for them.

[DaveyJoe]

Depressing update on the (lack of) progress on TWOW:

http://universe.suvudu.com/q-and-a/anne-groell

For TWOW, when I have a date, you will have a date. I’m now on Twitter, Del Rey Spectra has a number of social media platforms, and I promise you we will put the word out as soon as we know. All I can say is that George is hard at work, and we hope to have it reasonably soon. I currently have 168 pages that he submitted back in Feb 2013 in order to receive a contracted payment, but I know more exists, because he keeps talking about chapter he hasn’t yet sent me. In fact, when we wanted to put an exclusive excerpt on the A WORLD OF ICE AND FIRE app—a magnificent thing which you all should buy and use!—he suggested the second Tyrion chapter, which I then had to remind him was not in the sample I had.

So George hasn't sent anything new since Feb. 2013. :(

[boojam]

Depressing update on the (lack of) progress on TWOW:

http://universe.suvudu.com/q-and-a/anne-groell

So George hasn't sent anything new since Feb. 2013. :(

I wonder about that, 168 pages in Feb. of 2013, apparently, he has written a lot since, maybe she does not want to say what she has seen?

On deaths. Having read Feast and Crows, I can think of only one main character , who may or may not die or may be 'resurrected'! (Well we have one maybe two secondary characters who have uncertain existence in the story . Having only two books to go, I hope, major plot arcs have been laid down for all the major characters left. It would seem literary folly, to me, for GRRM to introduce more than one or two more major characters or to kill off , well really any of the other majors, ... until the very very last chapters, because you going to start going real non-linear and that does not seem GRRM's style. Unless he is heading into William S. Burroughs territory which I doubt.

[HairGrowsBack]

Also, not sending her anything doesn't equate not writing anything. Trying to convince myself here.

[Caerl Targaryen]

Well I expect the show to "spoil" the books, because the producers want the best "ending" for their series, and that's probably exactly what GRRM has "outlined" for them.

You don't need to be a dick about things. I've been fairly polite here.

Also, not sending her anything doesn't equate not writing anything. Trying to convince myself here.

Exactly. I highly doubt he hasn't written anything for a year. He's a slow writer but that's just...ridiculous. And isn't realistic at all. Not sending material for piecemeal editing doesn't really say anything about his overall progress.

[Werthead]

GRRM had a heck of a lot more done - 25% of the book or more like 400 MS pages - in April 2015. So yeah, it's more the case that he hasn't sent material to Anne rather than he hasn't written it to start with. And we know from his LJ comments that the writing and editing on TWoW has been a hell of a lot smoother on TWoW than on ADWD (at least thusfar).

However, it's an interesting admission. GRRM was sending ADWD material to Anne a lot more regularly - or at least so was suggested at the time - than he has appeared to with TWoW. Not sure whether that's a good thing or a bad thing. AGoT-ACoK-ASoS do seem to have been edited more at once, and AFFC and ADWD more piecemeal, so it could be a positive indication.

[Faint]

As I noted elsewhere, if he is at least matching his pace for writing A Dance with Dragons from 2008 onward (and all indications are that he is), then he was probably at 800 to 900 manuscript pages to start the year. If he is actually having an easier time of it, then he might very well be past 1000 pages by now.