Small Questions v 10026

[CreativeName]

((doublepost or whatever strange thing just happened while i got ninja'd))

[HexMachina]

That won't work. I just changed my name to TestHam and my wiki login is still RumHam. You'll have to contact a mod or create a new login just for wiki editing.

I've contacted a friend to ask if I can borrow their login, it seems silly to make a new one :)

[Consigliere]

I think RumHam may be correct. You may need to create a new account (without apostrophe) to be able to log into the wiki. Changing your display name won't help because under My Settings - Display Name it says "Changing your display name will not affect your log in details."

[mindchap]

Ha, Lady Gwyn noticed this recently and we were both puzzled too. Jon would surely have known Lord Dustin was dead. Though a typo also doesnt make sense as the letters are almost identical - as in Grrm must have been cross referencing when he wrote that.

So it doesnt make a whole lot of sense. :dunno:

I think George may have gotten a little mixed up in the DwD chapters for Jon, he also mentions Septon Chayle being at the Wall in one of the chapters right around that one. They should just let Ran do the editing from now on. :D

Though only a few men of the Night’s Watch had gathered about the ditchfire, more looked down from rooftops and windows and the steps of the

great switchback stair. Jon took careful note of who was there and who was not. Some men had the duty; many just off watch were fast asleep. But

others had chosen to absent themselves to show their disapproval. Othell Yarwyck and Bowen Marsh were amongst the missing. Septon Chayle

had emerged briefly from the sept, fingering the seven-sided crystal on the thong about his neck, only to retreat inside again once the prayers

began.

[TheButcherCrow]

In aGoT, Eddard is said to be 35. When Robert's Rebellion began Aerys allegedly demanded the heads of Jon Arryn's young wards (Eddard & Robert) who were both 20 at the time. Isn't it unusual that they would still be wards at that age? Also, what had Robert done at this point to make Aerys want his head on a spike? The only way this makes sense is if Eddard & Robert had been sent to The Eyrie as "wards" (in the Theon Greyjoy sense of the term) but that seems an awful big point to miss out. Something isn't quite right. Thoughts?

[Knight Of Winter]

In aGoT, Eddard is said to be 35. When Robert's Rebellion began Aerys allegedly demanded the heads of Jon Arryn's young wards (Eddard & Robert) who were both 20 at the time. Isn't it unusual that they would still be wards at that age? Also, what had Robert done at this point to make Aerys want his head on a spike? The only way this makes sense is if Eddard & Robert had been sent to The Eyrie as "wards" (in the Theon Greyjoy sense of the term) but that seems an awful big point to miss out. Something isn't quite right. Thoughts?

I'll leave answer about age to more knowledgeable people. As for why did Aerys want Robert's head - it's because he was nuts and paranoid. Evidently Aerys took "guilt by association" principle a bit too far: after executing the guilty party (Brandon), first he killed his father, and then wanted to off his brother and future brother-in-law as well. If Jon Arryn complied with his crazy request, Aerys would have probably asked for Benjen's and Stannis' heads next.

[vox umbrarum]

Can someone here help me out?

In one of the later books (most likely feast, but dance is also possible) there has been someone making a mention about his brother(s) having gone to war many years ago. He got more into detail about how saddening and pointless the whole thing was. Something along the lines of his brother not even being armed and, if I remember correctly, the others never making it to the battlefield but rather dying from disease.

Can't connect this story to a name, though. Or an exact book for that matter. So if you could provide me with a name and say whose POV chapter this extract is in, that'd be cool. :)

[Fragile Bird]

AFFC, Brienne, Septon Meribald talking about going to war because his brothers did, and watching them all die.

[TheButcherCrow]

Can someone here help me out?

In one of the later books (most likely feast, but dance is also possible) there has been someone making a mention about his brother(s) having gone to war many years ago. He got more into detail about how saddening and pointless the whole thing was. Something along the lines of his brother not even being armed and, if I remember correctly, the others never making it to the battlefield but rather dying from disease.

Can't connect this story to a name, though. Or an exact book for that matter. So if you could provide me with a name and say whose POV chapter this extract is in, that'd be cool. :)

One of my favourite passages :

“Ser? My lady?” said Podrick. “Is a broken man an outlaw?”

“More or less,” Brienne answered.

Septon Meribald disagreed. “More less than more. There are many sorts of outlaws, just as there are many sorts of birds. A sandpiper and a sea eagle both have wings, but they are not the same. The singers love to sing of good men forced to go outside the law to fight some wicked lord, but most outlaws are more like this ravening Hound than they are the lightning lord. They are evil men, driven by greed, soured by malice, despising the gods and caring only for themselves. Broken men are more deserving of our pity, though they may be just as dangerous. Almost all are common-born, simple folk who had never been more than a mile from the house where they were born until the day some lord came round to take them off to war. Poorly shod and poorly clad, they march away beneath his banners, ofttimes with no better arms than a sickle or a sharpened hoe, or a maul they made themselves by lashing a stone to a stick with strips of hide. Brothers march with brothers, sons with fathers, friends with friends. They’ve heard the songs and stories, so they go off with eager hearts, dreaming of the wonders they will see, of the wealth and glory they will win. War seems a fine adventure, the greatest most of them will ever know."

"Then they get a taste of battle."

"For some, that one taste is enough to break them. Others go on for years, until they lose count of all the battles they have fought in, but even a man who has survived a hundred fights can break in his hundred-and-first. Brothers watch their brothers die, fathers lose their sons, friends see their friends trying to hold their entrails in after they’ve been gutted by an axe. They see the lord who led them there cut down, and some other lord shouts that they are his now. They take a wound, and when that’s still half-healed they take another. There is never enough to eat, their shoes fall to pieces from the marching, their clothes are torn and rotting, and half of them are shitting in their breeches from drinking bad water. If they want new boots or a warmer cloak or maybe a rusted iron halfhelm, they need to take them from a corpse, and before long they are stealing from the living too, from the smallfolk whose lands they’re fighting in, men very like the men they used to be. They slaughter their sheep and steal their chickens, and from there it’s just a short step to carrying off their daughters too. And one day they look around and realize all their friends and kin are gone, that they are fighting beside strangers beneath a banner that they hardly recognize. They don’t know where they are or how to get back home and the lord they’re fighting for does not know their names, yet here he comes, shouting for them to form up, to make a line with their spears and scythes and sharpened hoes, to stand their ground. And the knights come down on them, faceless men clad all in steel, and the iron thunder of their charge seems to fill the world... "

"And the man breaks."

"He turns and runs, or crawls off afterward over the corpses of the slain, or steals away in the black of night, and he finds someplace to hide. All thought of home is gone by then, and kings and lords and gods mean less to him than a haunch of spoiled meat that will let him live another day, or a skin of bad wine that might drown his fear for a few hours. The broken man lives from day to day, from meal to meal, more beast than man. Lady Brienne is not wrong. In times like these, the traveler must beware of broken men, and fear them... but he should pity them as well.”

When Meribald was finished a profound silence fell upon their little band. Brienne could hear the wind rustling through a clump of pussywillows, and farther off the faint cry of a loon. She could hear Dog panting softly as he loped along beside the septon and his donkey, tongue lolling from his mouth. The quiet stretched and stretched, until finally she said, “How old were you when they marched you off to war?”

“Why, no older than your boy,” Meribald replied. “Too young for such, in truth, but my brothers were all going, and I would not be left behind. Willam said I could be his squire, though Will was no knight, only a potboy armed with a kitchen knife he’d stolen from the inn. He died upon the Stepstones, and never struck a blow. It was fever did for him, and for my brother Robin. Owen died from a mace that split his head apart, and his friend Jon Pox was hanged for rape.”

“The War of the Ninepenny Kings?” asked Hyle Hunt.

“So they called it, though I never saw a king, nor earned a penny. It was a war, though. That it was.”

From Brienne V - AFFC

[Fragile Bird]

Page 535 of the Bantam Books paperback.

"How old were you when they marched you off to war?"

""Why, no older than your boy, " Meribald replied. "Too young for such, in truth, but my brothers were all going, and I would not be left behind. William said I could be his squire, though Will was no knight, only a potboy armed with a kitchen knife he'd stolen from the inn. He died upon the Stepstones, and never struck a blow. It was fever did for him, and for my brother Robin Owen died from a mace that split his head apart, and his friend Jon Pox was hanged for rape."

"The war of the Ninepenny Kings?" asked Hyle Hunt.

"So they called it, though I never saw a king, nor earned a penny. It was a war, though. That it was. "

Ninja'd!

How did you do that so fast? Can you copy and paste off of some media?

[TheButcherCrow]

Ninja'd!

How did you do that so fast? Can you copy and paste off of some media?

Kindle for PC baby :cool4:

[CreativeName]

In aGoT, Eddard is said to be 35. When Robert's Rebellion began Aerys allegedly demanded the heads of Jon Arryn's young wards (Eddard & Robert) who were both 20 at the time. (1) Isn't it unusual that they would still be wards at that age? (2) Also, what had Robert done at this point to make Aerys want his head on a spike? The only way this makes sense is if Eddard & Robert had been sent to The Eyrie as "wards" (in the Theon Greyjoy sense of the term) but that seems an awful big point to miss out. Something isn't quite right. Thoughts?

To give an answer that's a little bit more in depth:

For starters: This might be a good place to get some additional facts.

(1) First of all: No, they weren't the kind of "wards" as in "hostages". There was simply no political reason for that, AFAIK. Obviously, the common custom of fostering the children of other Houses isn't exclusively limited to political hostages.

Alongside with Robert (orphaned), Eddard was fostered by Jon Arryn at the Eyrie from the age of 8. Both treated him like a second father. Back in the day, Jon Arryn didn't have own kids, so he treated Rob and Ned as he would his own kids. With such a strong bond, I don't think it's overly unusual that they both happened to spend their time at the Eyrie at the specific time when Aerys claimed their heads. I imagine they were of course free to go anywhere they wanted at this stage of their lives. For example, Ned and Robert both were at Harrenhal in 281 AL, alongside Jon Arryn, admittedly. But they weren't considered as "wards of Jon Arryn" any more than any other 20 or 30 year old might be considered as a "child of someone". They were grown man.

Ages: They were both born in 263 AL. The Rebellion started 282 AL, when Jon Arryn raised his banners, making Ned and Robert 18 to 19 at that specific time.

(2) You have to bear in mind: Aerys was paranoid. Batshit crazy. After his imprisonment at Duskendale, he became more and more suspicious about pretty much everything and everyone. He even suspected his own son Rhaegar to be plotting against him. BTW, that's why he also came along to the Tourney at Harrenhal, upon the advice of Varys, who fueled his paranoia even further. He suspected, Harrenhal might be the platform to arrange a coup.

As you probably know, after Lyanna's "kidnapping" by Rhaegar, crazy-Aerys ordered the protesting Starks and men of the Vale who showed up at King's Landing to be imprisoned and later executed (namely Brandon & Rickard Stark; together with Ethan Glover [wasn't executed], Jeffory Mallister, Kyle Royce and Elbert Arryn plus some of their respective fathers). BTW: At that time, Elbert Arryn was nephew and heir to Jon Arryn.

Anyway, still unsatisfied after the gruesome executions, in addition to that he demanded also the heads of Jon Arryns wards Robert and Eddard. (To specifically answer your second question) He had two reasons:

A: Mainly, he believed both of them to be guilty of also participating in the great 'conspiracy' against him. (Besides Rhaegar, Lyanna, Brandon, Rickard, Vale Lords... Basically everyone.)

B: Because of their obvious affiliation with House Stark and Arryn, whose members and lieges he just executed. Aerys simply wanted to choke off a vendetta against his person and reign before it even begins, in taking out the two heirs Lords of Winterfell and Storm's End, respectively.

Edit: Typos. Slightly elaborated. (Man, the server is trolling me hard right now...)

[vox umbrarum]

Thanks you two, that's who it was.

Such an accurate picture of the poor common man-at-arms

IMO at least

[TheButcherCrow]

snip

Thanks for taking the time to answer so in depth :) Aerys was, of course a sadistic madman, certainly by the end he was utterly insane but how much of that is exaggerated by time & hatred ? Maybe not. Anyway, You said Robert was heir to Storm's End, he was Lord by that time. A man grown & his father dead when he was a boy. Stannis was the heir & far as I know, safe in Storm's End. It only just occurs to me, Stannis was only 16/17 when he held SE against the Tyrells, that's pretty badass.

[CreativeName]

Anyway, You said Robert was heir to Storm's End, he was Lord by that time.

Yes, I know, I slipped there. Actually, both Ned and Robert were of course the curent Lords at that specific time.

Edit: fixed

[TheButcherCrow]

Yes, I know, I slipped there. Actually, both Ned and Robert were of course the curent Lords at that specific time.

Ah yes indeed. I forgot this came after the executions of Brandon & Rickard.

[Fragile Bird]

<bitching small question>

I just spent an hour creating a new thread and when I hit post I got a message back that my post was too long.

And when I tried to re-post, it turned out the Board stopped saving what I was typing after a couple of minutes.

Bloody hell, why!!!!!

[mindchap]

<bitching small question>

I just spent an hour creating a new thread and when I hit post I got a message back that my post was too long.

And when I tried to re-post, it turned out the Board stopped saving what I was typing after a couple of minutes.

Bloody hell, why!!!!!

I know it's no help now but (ctrl+a) then (ctrl+c) every few lines is a lifesaver, especially once the show starts another season and every other click gets you the oops page. :)

Or write out your post in notepad and then just copy and paste the whole thing.

[Fragile Bird]

I have never had a problem posting a topic before, well, very rarely, and it really wasn't that long. I just didn't notice that it had stopped saving. :(

In the immortal words of the Hound, BUGGER THAT!

[mindchap]

I have never had a problem posting a topic before, well, very rarely, and it really wasn't that long. I just didn't notice that it had stopped saving. :(

In the immortal words of the Hound, BUGGER THAT!

Your avatar is very fitting tho. :D