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[TWOW Spoilers] NEW Chapter Discussion - "Mercy"

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As ADWD stands now, this chapter just wouldn't work for me. There would need to be a lot of switching up, especially with the epilogue. It's difficult to imagine Kevan not being the epilogue. If it were to work in ADWD, the Westerosi she meets couldn't be the Swyft envoy which would suck because there's a special sort of glee out of reading the Raff death scene. Uncomfortable, but gleeful for a reader nonetheless. So yes, I think it's better that it was saved for TWOW.

Sure, some timeline and other details may have needed to be cleaned up (to retain Kevan's epilogue), but this chapter simply had an impact factor which, mechanical details aside, would have been a great "emotional" place to leave Arya's arc, IMO.

It also has that "your training is complete" vibe, which is an equally great way to start her off in TWOW...

But, still, I was disappointed with being left with the mystery of Izembaro's identity, especially when weighed against the tone that this chapter brought to the table, so I personally would have appreciated this chapter (GRRM's original intent) more in ADWD, I think.

Of course, a completed TWOW may change all our opinions again. :dunno:

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Does anyone have any thoughts about Ser Harys Swyft's wife? To the best of my knowledge, she has never been mentioned previously. In fact, the Wiki doesn't even show a wife. Yet the other guard says this about her to Raff:


“Longer than you’d like,” the old man replied. “If he goes back without the gold the queen will have his head. Besides, I seen that wife of his. There’s steps in Casterly Rock she can’t go down for fear she’d get stuck, that’s how fat she is. Who’d go back to that, when he has his sooty queen?”


When I read that, the only woman who came to mind was Genna Lannister, who's married to Emmon Frey. Jaime describes her as three times the size of her husband, who maybe weighs 10 stone, or 140 lbs, meaning Genna weighs over 400 pounds. For a while I kept thinking, why would Emmon Frey have been sent to Braavos? But of course, it's Harys. I can't imagine that GRRM created two such large ladies.



I can imagine that Harys's wife is at Casterly Rock, because Kevan lived there and he was married to Dorna Swyft, so she may be there with her daughter.



Thoughts, anyone?

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Lots else but really I absolutely love that Arya is getting very poetic revenge. I so hope she does get Cersei now!!!

You just made me think that maybe Arya kills Cersei with somebody else's face.

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and what's the significance of "The Bloody Hand"? Is this a reference to Ned or Tywin? It would seem to be in incredibly poor taste to reference Tywin in front of a Lannister envoy.

I think its in reference to Tyrion. According to the play, Tyrion made a deal with the Stranger so King Robert would be killed by a demonic boar, then Tyrion poisoned King Joffery and inbetween he rapes Sansa/Shae. Then he escapes but not before killing Sansa/Shae

I also don't get why people are referring to Mercy sewing dresses, finding a crown and fixing a horn to her acting. From the sample chapter, Mercy hasn't done her acting yet. I'm since she is an apprentice, she is seen as a mordern day intern? And does all the pre-production odd jobs. Her part is getting raped in the second act, which hasn't started when the chapter ends.

And I also don't get why people think she's running away from the company after killing Raff, she's just going back to the stage when the chapter ends.

Quote:

She would think about that later, though. Just now, there was no time. I had best run. Mercy still had some lines to say, her first lines and her last, and Izembaro would have her pretty little empty head if she were late for her own rape.

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“The seven-faced god has cheated me,” he began, snarling the words. “My noble sire he made of purest gold, and gold he made my siblings, boy and girl. But I am formed of darker stuff, of bones and blood and clay… “



Clay huh...........


Tyrion will be a Clay warrior after the greyscale epidemic.


You heard it here first lol.

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So I need to ask a question. Does the fact that this scene will be played out in season 4 episode 1 make the book readers wary that the show will be spoiling the books very soon. That were basically already at the point where the show catching up is no longer a theoretical but is in fact happening now.

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You just made me think that maybe Arya kills Cersei with somebody else's face.

With Tyrion's face maybe? Making her the Valonqar and confirming Cercei's fears at the same time

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mind has been blown

she would need to get his face though

Mummery? sorcery? I wonder (because I can't remember if it's stated) if Varys's disguises are of dead people in the way the FM do or he later learned how to do that with any face. Because if he can, maybe Arya can learn the same.

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mind has been blown

she would need to get his face though

Oh no! That would mean a dead Tyrion! I didn't think it through. I take it back! I take it back!

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So I need to ask a question. Does the fact that this scene will be played out in season 4 episode 1 make the book readers wary that the show will be spoiling the books very soon. That were basically already at the point where the show catching up is no longer a theoretical but is in fact happening now.

....the hell are you on about? That goes for everyone mentioning Season 4 episode 1.

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Mummery? sorcery? I wonder (because I can't remember if it's stated) if Varys's disguises are of dead people in the way the FM do or he later learned how to do that with any face. Because if he can, maybe Arya can learn the same.

Or even that glamour thing that Mel did with Mance & Rattleshirt

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Had she not had her warging abilities she might have lost her sight for a longer period of time which I'd consider a negative consequence. No way to know since she advanced two steps quicker than most people do in her organization.

Killing Daerion wasn't even as bad as the fact that she called herself Arya of House Stark. Killing someone proved that she could kill someone and get away with it. She also proved that she could kill someone she's assigned to kill.

She maintains her character of Mercy almost all completely throughout this kill as well and only finally becomes Arya again when Raff says "You'll have to carry me"

I don't really understand what you're saying. I'm seeing this as an issue of she spends a period of time on a certain level of training until she reaches a point where her skills make her suitable for advancement. She advances despite killing Dareon and despite invoking the name of Arya of House Stark. She's rewarded for this. On the next level, when she's blind, she could have been on that level longer, but it's not as punishment for what she did on the previous level, but what she fails to do on the current level.

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I guess one could feel sad by this chapter...but what else were you expecting?

It has been clear for a while now that the only thing able to make Arya herself again is if she were to meet with Jon. Ever since ASOS, everything else has left her mind, save revenge and Jon from time to time (both because of Needle, and due to the genuine love they had as siblings).

So, I wasn't very surprised to see her so emotionally numb in this chapter. She's a killing machine now, O-Ren Ishi'i style.

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Or even that glamour thing that Mel did with Mance & Rattleshirt

That qualifies as sorcery, I guess.

But, Tyrion? Does Tyrion and Arya have the same height? I think she's already taller if she's anything like Sansa.

Maybe, Tommen? They're pretty much the same age and I guess he's the last to go according to Maggy's prophecy. What better way to go closer to the already deteriorated mind of Cersei than as his dead younger son.

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Sure, some timeline and other details may have needed to be cleaned up (to retain Kevan's epilogue), but this chapter simply had an impact factor which, mechanical details aside, would have been a great "emotional" place to leave Arya's arc, IMO.

It also has that "your training is complete" vibe, which is an equally great way to start her off in TWOW...

But, still, I was disappointed with being left with the mystery of Izembaro's identity, especially when weighed against the tone that this chapter brought to the table, so I personally would have appreciated this chapter (GRRM's original intent) more in ADWD, I think.

Of course, a completed TWOW may change all our opinions again. :dunno:

I think it largely depends on taste. ADWD was my favorite book so it's difficult to imagine any of it being changed. I like that gleeful read this chapter provided, but not at the expense of changing the previous book. Another thing is that I have really felt no anticipation for TWOW, especially because I have found the majority of the TWOW reads very boring. "Mercy" excites me again. When an author has a gap of up to six years between books, I far prefer having exciting chapters be delayed and released as a spoiler than continuing to lose interest in a franchise I started off loving and began to find myself almost loathing.

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So I need to ask a question. Does the fact that this scene will be played out in season 4 episode 1 make the book readers wary that the show will be spoiling the books very soon. That were basically already at the point where the show catching up is no longer a theoretical but is in fact happening now.

If anything I think it shows GRRM is preventing ardent book readers from being spoiled by the show (except for those few that saw a premier I guess). He released this chapter before the show began so we could read it before seeing it.

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Mummery? sorcery? I wonder (because I can't remember if it's stated) if Varys's disguises are of dead people in the way the FM do or he later learned how to do that with any face. Because if he can, maybe Arya can learn the same.

If your correct i hope its the former and not the latter. I hate it when characters use magic themselves (dragons, weirwoods, direwolves etc is cool)

The Varys reference makes a lot of sense and i think maybe your onto something with that but if she does, it has to be soon, she's already taller than him (i'm sure she can feign being his height but not for much longer)

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