Scott Lynch II: Read The Lies of Locke Lamora and Win at Life!

[The Iceman of the North]

Bound to get himself seriously attached in 18 days.

Certainly there is still a small hope that someone will be able to save his soul from this?

[Shevchyk]

Certainly there is still a small hope that someone will be able to save his soul from this?

Heh.

The sound of two geeks coming together in geeky matrimony should never be interrupted, not even by the pronouncd beckonings of yonder booze!

[Shevchyk]

Dude, that only happens at WorldCon.

Now have you not figured out that the fair Jenn with cute cat avatar is The Author's Fiancee? Do you not feel ashamed of yourselves??

Men.

Jenn - I think women are able to handle pain SO much better than men - I don't know what it is!

And welcome to the Board.

*grin*

As though Jen needs introduction. Like the lemming that I am, I followed her here. Something about Locke Lamora and alcohol...

Thank you for the greetings! I hope to entertain and stun with my delightful assortment of hats.

[The White Bull]

So I've finally got some time to post on this marvel since I finished reading it a couple days ago.

This was the most entertaining book that I have read in quite some time, maybe ever. The banter between the Gentleman Bastards and virtually anyone is quite hilarious I must say. I can see the Tyrion and Tyrion/Bronn comparisons, though I do believe I prefer the GB's dialogue. It also reminds me alot of pretty much any non serious conversation between myself and my roommate.

The city of Camorr was just brilliant. How much bum-fuckery can one city be engulfed in?

SPOILER: stealing

The Secret Peace steals from the merchants, the merchants from the nobles and commoners alike, the thieves steal from the merchants, and everyone is just damn peachy keen with this. Sounds like fun, where do I sign up?

I hadn't been in on the spoilers, so after reading where

SPOILER: LLL

Locke kills the Gray King and is horribly wounded

and then seeing the Interlude...well, at first I thought it was the author's bio at the end of the book. And I was mad and heartbroken all the same. It was time to dust off some of the new language I'd learned: Ila justicca vei cala . Mr. Lynch, thank you for no cliffhanger ending. Thank you. Thank you.

Now I have a question I must pose again, Scott. I am as curious about this as Locke was about the Spider. You gave us your personal "favorite" for the Gentleman's Bastard theme and told us you have a playlist for the books that you write to. Would you tell us/me the other songs that you included? The Rozmarinke song is a dead ringer for the Bastards, IMO. Now I want to read the book with the playlist as a backdrop. Please .

[Rimmer]

Edit: Sorry, I'm an idiot

[Scott Lynch]

Yep, I've read the first four, I think. Jen has read a couple more, plus some of his Dumas pastiche stuff.

I shied away from Brust's novels for years because I'd read a few short stories of his, and they were... sucktacular. Turns out the short story format just isn't his thing.

I was thoroughly surprised by Jhereg; a delightful, fast-paced little book best described as a drawing-room mystery in which every participant is a 20th-level character beloved by the GM. What intrigued me the most was the way Brust conjured a pervasive, immersive sense of atmosphere using nothing but Vlad's tone of voice. Seriously, look at how little description there is of the world... the jungle is a jungle, the city is a city, we don't even know what the outside of Castle Black looks like. Yet it feels richly developed and real, via nothing more than Vlad's sarcasm and asides. His personality makes the world around him feel deep. It's a hell of an accomplishment.

I enjoyed the second book, got a little bored (okay, a lot bored) in the one where the agricultural Dragaerans stage their proletarian revolution, but went back to enjoying the next one. I look forward to the rest of the series pretty unreservedly.

Cheers,

SL

P.S. I first read Brust in the summer of 2004, just before I sold Lies. So he wasn't what you'd call a formative influence; more of a recent pleasure.

P.P.S. There is a small Brust homage of sorts in TLOLL nonetheless.

[Caligula_K]

Just read the book. Really fantastic stuff; nothing life changing, but one of the most entertaining, fun (and yet thankfully, slightly dark) books I've ever read. Can't wait to read the second book.

[TerraPrime]

Yay, I finished the book yesterday. So here's my take:

The Lies of Locke Lamora is one of those rare books that are gripping, entertaining, and satisfying all at once. Lynch showed a skillful control of the narrative structure in his interwoven chapters, creating two storylines that are parallel and inter-related but which are disjointed temporally.

The world he created is like a well designed stage, with the objects near to us decked out in fascinating details (like how each of the districts in Camorr has a distinct character) while the objects further away are hazy and unfocused (Telsham and Karthain are both mentioned several times indirectly). The combined effect is the coming to life of a world that's believable and immersive. It will spark a particular fondness in those who like Venice and the Italian city-state style setting. Lynch's delightful imagination is at its peak when he reveals one wonderful creation after another like a magician pulling one hare after another out of a simple high-hat. Elderglass, the falselight, contraquerilla, wraithstone, Raven's Reach, and much more, are all testimony of a vivid mind.

The stage set by Lynch is populated by memorable characters that converse in dialogues crackling with wit and humor. At the best spots, it's like reading a West Wing script. Lynch kept good control over a good sized cast of primary and secondary characters, sending them on and off stage with deftness and precision. The primary character, Locke Lamora, is an irreverant rascal whose exploits are the stuff of tall tales told at taverns over mugs of ale. Fans of this book will no doubt be looking forward to meeting the lady (in book 2 perhaps?) who holds his heart in her purse and who, more than likely, will prove to be just as formidable as Lamora is. It was a relief to see that Lynch evaded the trap that ensnares so many authors where key characters are immortal and where the antagonists are boringly evil. The plot takes a few twists and turns and the readers are kept off balance by unexpected convergence of events and people. The story wraps itself up at the end, with promise of more fun to come in the next book.

When all's said and done, I find TLOLL to be a superb read because it speaks to the rascals in all of us. We all have a part that wants to say "fuck off!" to all the rules, break them, outsmart them, and have fun doing it! The friendship and loyalty of the characters also make for a satisfactorily warm, but not overly sentimental, heart of the story. I highly recommend this book to anyone who can enjoy a good adventurous yarn.

Okay, now the praise is out of the way, I do have a couple of complaints.

SPOILER: Complaints

I was hoping that we'd see more of the development of the friendship and bonding between Jean and Locke. I thought the way it was handled was a bit... I dunno, rushed? I felt that we were told, and not shown, how it all worked out.

I was also disappointed in the Spider. Lady Vorchenza just wasn't terribly believable as the mastermind of the Midnighters. It was careless of her to have nobody on hand when she confronted Locke, for one. Yes, the Thorn of Camorr has yet to kill, but when faced with the choice of going to the Palace of Patience, I think most would find the courage to do some violence. It's also inconceivable to me that she would allow Locke to leave the Raven's Reach the second time to confront the Gray King without sending a few of her Midnighters to follow him. That is not what I would expect of someone who's been running the biggest spy network in Camorr.

Finally, I didn't particularly like the name magic that bondsmagi have. It seems too easy and too powerful that all it takes is the real name (or supposedly half a real name) to completely control someone. If Karthain has several hundred of these bondmagi, they should be taking over the entire continent. I hope we'll see more of the magic system on this issue, and maybe this power will be balanced by a high cost. We didn't see the Falconer paying any price for his magic, but that doesn't mean there isn't a hefty price-tag for this name magic.

[Sword of the Morning]

Finished it yesterday as well.

Overall I enjoyed it a great deal. It really is a GREAT caper novel and Lynch certainly has no problems weaving an entertaining yarn. It's one of the better books I've read in a while and it does take hold and won't let go about 1/3 of the way in. There are some weaknesses related to the motivations of the main villain which I won't spoil here as well as some conventions which I found a little trite and convenient. Once again I don't want to go into too much detail . . . mainly cause I'm too stupid to figure out how to spoiler protect.

As some have pointed out Lynch's strength is story and narrative . . . but he's a little weak in character development. My favorite character was actually Jean Tannen followed by the twins and then our main character! Then again we have 7 books to get to know him so I expect better in the next book.

My main criticism with the book will be reader dependent. Your mileage may vary on this one. But the dialogue REALLY bothered me. Now don't get me wrong. It is every bit as witty, funny, and sharp as has been described here but it is also soooo anachronisitic, I couldn't help but be taken out of the story. This is supposed to be a fantasy setting sometime in 17 or 18th century Venice? Then why does everybody talk like cheeky 30 yr old Americans? The use of "fuck" and "asshole" etc etc is fine but I would have much preferred a tone less bluntly modern. Martin uses "fuck" occasionally in his writing but it just seems to fit the setting better. I hope I'm not too confusing on this point? If someone can explain it better please do. Anyway, it apparently doesn't bother most who read it but scanning some of the reviews on-line and at Amazon I do notice I'm not alone in this.

While that is a minor nitpick, it is annoying . . . kinda like an itch you just can't scratch.

Now my final thoughts are this. While not perfect by a long shot, Lies of Locke Lamora completely BLEW ME AWAY when I realized that this was from a debut writer of only 28. 28!!!! Has no one remarked on this remarkable fact?? Granted, Lynch is a long way from Jordan or Martin in world building and epic fantasy. He's not even in their league yet. But Jordan went through 2 tours of Vietnam, killed people, had people try to kill him, won Purple Heaerts and Bronze Crosses and started writing his opus in his 40s. Martin is 57, had won Nebulas and Hugos and Bram Stoker awards and married and gotten a divorce and met true love and gone to Hollywood and back. When you compare what Lynch has done at his age with what even powerhouses of fantasy were doing . . . it's simply amazing.

The only analogy is say Lebron James coming in the NBA and everyone saying that he's going to be the next Michael Jordan. Well, Lebron is no MJ and he's frankly not even close . . . but what he's doing in the NBA compared to what MJ was doing when MJ was that age??? That's a whole different story.

So basially, Mr. Lynch your first novel wasn't perfect and not EPIC fantasy yet . . . but it was damn enjoyable to read . . . and if you keep up this curve there's no doubt in my mind that you will soon become a superstar in the genre on the level of Martin and Jordan and Goodkind (I know, I know, most of the people here hate Jordan and Goodkind but I'm going by commercial as well as critical success here. I'm sure you wouldn't mind ripping off 7 straight New York times bestsellers like the guys I've mentioned have . . . )

Also anyone who named their main character after my favorite character in my favorite Final Fantasy HAS to be a god. :)

Dennis

[Ran]

It's a fantasy world, hence there's no such thing as "anachronistic" -- their history isn't ours, and there's no reason why they should be speaking in "thees" and "'zounds!"

Even if it _were_, there's nothing at all wrong with a modern writer "translating period dialogue" into a parallel modern dialect. It's pretty common. GRRM's characters do not speak remotely in the manner of "medieval" people, in terms of the degree of formality, but they still speak more formally than some of the smallfolk we've heard in the series.

[Rimmer]

I just finished the book today, and like most of you, I loved it. Pretty much my perfect story: Witty dialogue, thieves, fast pace, and just a nice overall adventure without any "deep philosophical" crap awkwardly thrown in. It's refreshing to have a main character who gets by with his brain rather than his super powers and master swordsmanship, and I like that there's no huge explanations of how magic is supposed to work.

Oh and I've always liked fantasy cities and hated fantasy countryside, so a fantasy book set in one city gets points from me by default - but I'll go further by saying that Camorr is the invented city I've ever read about. Great stuff.

I've also got a bit of a fetish for huge scary sea creatures, and this book delivered in that regard too; I am eagerly awaiting more huge sharks and devilfish in the next book.

I few small things nagged me:

SPOILER:

- The Spider seemed a bit thick - she not only had no guards around Locke, but paraded the antidote in front of him. She could've easily hidden it away somewhere; she just waves it in front of his face as if to say, well, "Punch me in the teeth and grab it off me". I'll grant that she hadn't thought of Locke escaping via cage down to the ground, but he's pretty much right in the crapper at that point, so he had to try something.

- Oh, and why was she outside giving direct orders to the men who were poking through the shit-barges? Are they all supposed to know that she's the Spider?

- I know it was brought up in the book, but I still wonder why only one assassin with one crossbow bolt was left to take care of Bug and Jean. I mean, anything could happen... the bolt might not kill him, they might find the assassin before Jean sees the dead hand, Locke might be alive. I know the Grey King was off getting ready to take over the thieves at that point, but surely he could've spared one or two more of his men for the pretty important task of finishing off the best thieves in the city who also hate his guts.

- I realise Bondsmages are going to be covered in another book, but they do leave a lot of questions. What's stopping just any crazy rich person from hiring one and killing the duke, Barsavi, the Tooth Fairy, and whoever else? It seems you'd only need one for half an hour to reap absolute havoc. I'm thinking that there is more to hiring a Bondsmage than just coughing up the money, but the impression that Chains gave is that the "high price" is the real barrier, yet even minor nobles like the Stravanis would have enough money to hire one for a couple of weeks. (Note that "Wait for Book 3" is a perfectly satisfactory answer, because we're not supposed to know every bit of background lore after one book in a series; I'm just typing my thoughts out as they stand after one book )

These are all just nerdy quibbles though, and I'm embarrassed that they take up more room than the positive stuff, since that shouldn't be the case. Scott, I don't expect you to waste time sitting here for weeks defending everything some tosser asks about in your book, but if you or anyone else wants to respond I'll be interested. Thanks for an awsome book - here is one more person that will be investing in the whole series. Cheers!

[Blaine]

Just finished TLOLL Saturday night (then spent like 700 hours reading the last thread and this one) and I loved every stinky page. Though I will admit I loved the beginning and middle pages much more than the last 200 pages.

Like Rhelley, it reminded me quite a bit of Brust's Taltos books - mainly in witty dialogue between the GB and the clever nature of the law-breaking that occurs. Actually my wife asked me in the middle of the book why I was giggling aloud at some snippet and I told her what I was reading. She asked what it was like and I told it was alot like "Oliver Twist meets Vlad Taltos."

Anyways - congrats on a great book, Scott and you've got (yet another) person dying for more.

SPOILER: my only (slight) criticism/disappointment

For some reason, and this is probably my own fault - I kept expecting the Grey King to be someone we (the reader) had been introduced to. Maybe I watched too much Scooby Doo and expect the villain to be old Mr. Smithers who owns the amusement park everytime something like this occurs.

But it seemed to make sense. This Grey King would have to know Barsavi's organization pretty itimately, know what Locke and company were up to, how to use them, etc.

Dum-dum that I am, once it was revealed there was a Bondsmagi making things happen, at one point I believed it was Nazca disguised by the Falconer and that the corpse was a fake and she was taking over Daddy's business in a particularly cruel way or something.

Of course I was very, very spectacularly wrong (which is nothing new). But, I just felt for this mysterious Grey King to have a real impact, his motivations and methods should have been something the reader could've caught on to. Again, blame Scooby Doo and Encyclopedia Brown.

However, when the Grey King turns out to be.. Duh duh DUUUUH! The brother of the briefly mentioned shark-fighting twins. And a former merchant's son... whose father we never met, despite the liberal use of flashbacks. Who uh, got his information about the GB by watched stuff using a very, very expensive by the hour wizard. After making a bunch of money as a pirate. And he nurses hatred toward all of Camorr.

I felt it was a bit of a let-down. The Grey King, once revealed, just felt a bit "perfect". I mean, I get that he could use the Falconer to spy on Locke and suss out their operations. But how would he know TO spy on Locke? If the GB kept their act on the downlow, even from Barsavi - how would the Grey King have realized that the GB were robbing nobles at all?

Just a nitpick - largely built on my goofy projections as a reader - but I thought I'd mention it.

Anyways, all in all - a fantastic read.

Another question - Is there any chance TLOLL will be available as an audiobook?

I drive an hour to and from work and I'd love to spend a few weeks on my commute re-enjoying the book.

[The White Bull]

Another question - Is there any chance TLOLL will be available as an audiobook?

I drive an hour to and from work and I'd love to spend a few weeks on my commute re-enjoying the book.

I would love to have an audiobook version as well, even if just for the hilarity of hearing the conversations repeated out loud . It would be a worthy investment indeed.

The only real complaint I had about the entire book were the last few Interludes, they just seemed to be out of nowhere. They tied in, more or less, but it still broke the flow for me first time through.

[Olaf]

I just received a new newsletter from Subterranean Press in which they announce that they have purchased three novellas from Scott Lynch set in the world of Locke Lamora. No more details were given, but the first one will be available for pre-order soon.

Hi there.

A bevy of new contracts crossed my desk in the past two weeks for titles we'll be releasing next year. We're not quite ready to announce any for preorder yet, but for the curious, the titles include:

[...]

-- LOCKE LAMORA NOVELLA #1 by Scott Lynch. Trust us, Scott's first novel, THE LIES OF LOCKE LAMORA is the biggest, best new thing in fantasy. We liked it so much we signed him up to pen three novellas set in the same world.

Be looking for a few of these to be announced for pre-order very soon, as soon as final manuscripts are turned in.

[Jaxom 1974]

Actually, Blaine, with regards to your quibble...I also felt the same way...I was looking for something else that wasn't there that I expected to be there and I don't know if that made any sense since I've forgotten the spoiler tag and don't feel like going and looking it up. Instead I'll simply ramble and hope my point gets across...

[TerraPrime]

Actually, Blaine, with regards to your quibble...I also felt the same way...I was looking for something else that wasn't there that I expected to be there and I don't know if that made any sense since I've forgotten the spoiler tag and don't feel like going and looking it up. Instead I'll simply ramble and hope my point gets across...

Yes, of course, that thing. I thought that thing that ought to be there wasn't there and the thing that was there was not nearly the thing that I thought ought to have been there at all, all things considered.

[williamjm]

I just received a new newsletter from Subterranean Press in which they announce that they have purchased three novellas from Scott Lynch set in the world of Locke Lamora. No more details were given, but the first one will be available for pre-order soon.

Sounds interesting, any more information about these Scott? I suppose some prequel novellas from some of the GB's earlier scams might be quite fun, although something completely new would be good as well. Subterranean Press do excellent quality books, I've got some GRRM and Tim Powers books by them, although they can be a bit expensive, especially for those of us who have to get the books sent across the Atlantic.

By the way, in case people haven't seen the other thread, Os has just created a Lamora-based forum at The Right People

[Jaxom 1974]

Yes, of course, that thing. I thought that thing that ought to be there wasn't there and the thing that was there was not nearly the thing that I thought ought to have been there at all, all things considered.

Touche.

SPOILER: Okay Okay

Fine...what I really meant to say was that I really was hoing that Nazca wasn't dead and that she was somehow involved in everything...hers was probably my favorite character that we didn't really get a chance to know.

[The White Bull]

I would like to see Chains' death covered, or the few months leading up to it. I thought he was an excellent character, a good man...for a thief. Hopefully Scott will post and be able to give us some infos.

And I signed up for OsRaven's board as well. Only 5 members atm.

[TerraPrime]

Re: Jaxom

SPOILER: That thing

I think the expectation was set up by Lynch, darn him, because he dropped a few hints that Nazca is actually the best candidate for the next Capa but neither of her two brothers would allow her to take that position. It's another subtle mis-direction that Lynch threw at us.