Scott Lynch II: Read The Lies of Locke Lamora and Win at Life!

[Maltaran]

Well, I read this on the flight to LA for Worldcon, so this is the first chance I've had to post my reaction to it. I have to say, Locke reminds me of Lymond and Niccolo. Has Scott read Dorothy Dunnett? I also thought that Locke and Jean seemed a bit naive when disposing of the Falconer. I mean, we know they can't kill him because the Bondsmagi will get their revenge, but don't you think that torturing and mutilating him might also cause a certain amount of bitterness and hatred? Of course, reading the blurb on Amazon for Red Seas Under Red Skies, it seems that attracting this hatred is a necessary plot point, but it still seems a bit odd considering how smart Locke is.

[Maid Sansa]

Yeah, I was wondering about what Malt wrote, too.

[MinDonner]

I think Scott answered that on the previous thread - it was intended as a massive Fuck You to the Bondsmagi, they weren't expecting it to go unnoticed.

[Errant Bard]

But didn't Locke say at one point that he fully intended on sending a message to the Bondsmages, and to hell with consequences, while keeping in mind that he could always plead that he didn't breach the letter of the bondmagi law, only its spirit. Only killing is mentionned as the thing that will definitely get you killed.

Another thing is he could know that the bondsmage society is is not that organized and monolothic, he showed that he possessed uptodate geopolitic knowledge as well as a great deal of political foresight with Karthain, so why not for the rest of the world?

[Maltaran]

I think Scott answered that on the previous thread - it was intended as a massive Fuck You to the Bondsmagi, they weren't expecting it to go unnoticed.

OK, I've now read the first thread, so I've had that part of the question answered. I'd still like to know if Locke was in any way influenced by Lymond or Niccolo, though.

[Spectralist]

I figured it was more of Locke knowing he was pretty much fucked no matter how he handled the Bondsmagi.

Leave him alive – be killed

Kill him – be killed

Torture him – get some answers and then be killed

I can’t see any way for Locke to handle the situation that wouldn’t screw him over, at least the way he did it there is some small chance that the Bondsmagi will be too insane to communicate with his buddies. Of course the Bondsmagi can prolly figure it out anyway, since it seems reasonable that they would have some way of knowing how one of there own is killed it would seem that they could just use that same resource to find out what happened to the Falconer.

[Jerol]

Y'know, depending upon the level of magic at the Bondsmagi's disposal, they might not be able to figure everything that happened to the Falconer.

SPOILER: Torture is fun for the whole family

They would have to either be able to read his mind, or regrow fingers and/or tongue to get the full story. And I suspect that some of the Falconer's actions might have been off the company guidelines - his relationship with the GK just seemed to be a little too close and obsessive - the Bondsmagi seem to me to be the types that would keep their clients at arms length. And now I will wait for Scott's respone to include the phrase "you couldn't be more fucking wrong".

[Werthead]

Take that back!

Okay, Feanor was a bit of a tool and the other Noldor were tools for following him. Their toolness ceased when Fingolfin realised Feanor had screwed the rest of them over by burning the ships, at which point Fingolfin was motivated purely by his own badass need to hurt Feanor, a lot.

SPOILER: The Futility of Foolish Feanor (in which a Lies of Locke Lamora reference can be found)

Which interestingly Tolkien was going to do by have Fingolfin lock Feanor in a coffin full of horse piss, but he cut that out of The Silmarillion for tonal reasons

The Noldorin did a lot of kick-ass stuff later on that does elevate them back into the ranks of the non-tools, the elves of Gondolin in particular.

[BLU-RAY]

I just wanted to say, this book kicked ass. Scott, well played. I was entertained throughout, and I look forward to the next book (and maybe winning the cocktail contest).

[delete this account pls]

I finally picked it up on Friday. About 2/3 of the way through it and enjoying it immensely. The humour is particularly appealing. Three moments that made me laugh out loud so far; "Nice bird arsehole", "Not across the line my arse" and the interlude about the Half Crown War, when Locke ties himself to the rival gang leader and then informs him that Jean is coming, to which the rival replies; "Oh shit. Oh shit."

I also like the numerous easter eggs dropped in the interludes, such as the leader of the Half Crowns growing up to become leader of the Full Crowns, before getting bumped off by the Grey King, or the fact that one of the young noblemen being trained by Don Mazarella in Jean's first interlude being Lorenzo Salvara, current target of the Gentlemen Bastards. I'm sure there's a bunch more I didn't pick up too.

[zakalwe7]

When we flew over to LA 2 weeks ago, 3 out of the 5 of us had copies of this book with us to read on the journey. Says something.

[Jaxom 1974]

When we flew over to LA 2 weeks ago, 3 out of the 5 of us had copies of this book with us to read on the journey. Says something.

Says the security screeners weren't doing well enough to keep that stuff out of the States, eh?

No, I'm kidding...I love the book. Everyone knows that.

[Harren the Black]

I also really loved the book; especially that it had an ending, not a cliffhanger. I'm looking forward to see more of the gentlemens bastards.

[Spectralist]

I also really loved the book; especially that it had an ending, not a cliffhanger. I'm looking forward to see more of the gentlemens bastards.

Indeed, i didn't even know it was going to be part of a series untill i came here to read about it, quite pleasant.

[Kraken]

Y'know, depending upon the level of magic at the Bondsmagi's disposal, they might not be able to figure everything that happened to the Falconer.

SPOILER: Torture is fun for the whole family

They would have to either be able to read his mind, or regrow fingers and/or tongue to get the full story. And I suspect that some of the Falconer's actions might have been off the company guidelines - his relationship with the GK just seemed to be a little too close and obsessive - the Bondsmagi seem to me to be the types that would keep their clients at arms length. And now I will wait for Scott's respone to include the phrase "you couldn't be more fucking wrong".

Deaf people who sustain terrible hand injuries still learn to communicate with their arms/shoulders and mostly their eyes/head/facial expressions. I imagine that, given enough time, the bondsmagi could get most of the story.

There's also the old man in The Count of Monte Cristo who isn't able to do anything but blink whom is also able to communicate.

[Bazzlebane]

I also like the numerous easter eggs dropped in the interludes, such as the leader of the Half Crowns growing up to become leader of the Full Crowns, before getting bumped off by the Grey King, or the fact that one of the young noblemen being trained by Don Mazarella in Jean's first interlude being Lorenzo Salvara, current target of the Gentlemen Bastards. I'm sure there's a bunch more I didn't pick up too.

Oh hell I didn't notice either of those things. I can be so fucking observant.

Well played, Scott Lynch, well played. And Brady as well.

[beniowa]

I just finished the book about an hour ago. Great stuff! Can't wait for the next one.

[delete this account pls]

Just finished it as well, and found the ending as satisfying as the first two thirds.

SPOILER: Lies

I was a bit surprised that there wasn't more to the Grey King though. When he killed Nazca, Barsavi's daughter, I became convinced the whole thing was a fakeout and that Nazca actually was the Grey King, operating so that she could install herself as Capa since she knew her father would never do so. I even thought the murder of Tesso, leader of the Full Crowns was meant to be a clue. Barsavi confided to Locke that he had "big plans" for Tesso, which I assume included marrying tesso to Nazca. So I thought Nazca, as the Grey king, had acted to prevent the marriage while she continued to plot her takeover. A bit implausible in hindsight perhaps, but elaborate con games *did* seem to be a bit of a theme . Looking back actually, Nazca seems a bit of a pointless character. I really thought she was being set up to have a bigger impact on the plot. She was Barsavi's most capable and clever child, Locke Lamora was her own personal pezon, and she was even Locke's fiancee for a brief time, onl;y to be killed off-screen. I guess she can always feature in the flashbacks, assuming they continue throughout the series.

So, Red Seas Under Red Skies continues the adventures of the Gentlemen Bastards, though there are only two of them left. Or three if you count the dog leech Ibelius, who seems to be accompanying Locke and Jean into exile. Oh, and a fourth, as yet unmet member in Sabetha. I wonder if any other characters will be inducted into the gang.? I'm also curious as to discover the eventual fate of Father Chains. Did he simply die of old age, or was it something else?

One minor question that a keener eyed reader might be able to help me out with - was the Therin Throne a human empire, or Eldren? I wasn't quite sure. I thought Eldren at first, then changed my mind after the story of the empire's fall at the hands of the Bondsmagi. Does anyone know for sure?

Edit: Why can't I get the fucking spoilers to work? Arrggh. I'll just black out the text until I can figure it out.

[Merentha]

the code for spoilers is {spoiler="LoLL spoilers"}spoilers ahoy!{/spoiler}

except you insert [ instead of {. The spoiler name has to be included.

[delete this account pls]

Ah, thats better, thanks Merentha