Can't Really Understand Wargs

[Ingelheim]

So you have nothing more than sharky comments? I should know that by now.

I call it bs yet again, we know that only Wyman's family isn't First Men in the North yet they have married with Firs Men. Have we seen someone with zero fist men blood who is warg?

Anyway if you want to continue this conversation is entirely your opinion all I know is that I will not.

I don't think that is about the last name, BR and Jon are Targs but they have FM's blood.

That's the key. Bran has MORE FM'S BLOOD for sure than Jon and BR. And Arya. Yet they are clearly weaker than BR. Bran could be as strong as him, maybe even more powerful, but I don't think any other Stark children could match BR.

Now...why is that? It's not about the blood then...so, maybe it has something to do with magic and worships, don't you think?

[AryaNymeriaVisenya]

I wouldn't be surprised if we found out the Starks engaged in some sort of 'purity' of blood with marriage. i.e the bride must be of a First Men house because the northerners won't accept otherwise. The Tullys, southerners, seven worshippers, said to date back to the age of heroes. We've also heard of a marriage to a Royce, a first men house in the south. Lyanna was betrothed to Robert, descended from the Durrendons directly. We are explicitly told Jeyne Westerling was from a First Men house and her mother was related to someone with the gift of sight. I would be shocked if we ever saw a marriage to an Arryn or for example, a Mallister in the Stark tree. It would be a different way of maintaining 'purity of blood' than incest and obviously not 100%.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

That's the key. Bran has MORE FM'S BLOOD for sure than Jon and BR. And Arya. Yet they are clearly weaker than BR. Bran could be as strong as him, maybe even more powerful, but I don't think any other Stark children could match BR.

Now...why is that? It's not about the blood then...so, maybe it has something to do with magic and worships, don't you think?

So does Margaery Tyrell.

Just one example. I could bring a hundred more.

True. What I mean is that we don't know a warg who doesn't have FM's blood. So, I think that it is about blood+culture+religion.

[Ingelheim]

True. What I mean is that we don't know a warg who doesn't have FM's blood. So, I think that it is about blood+culture+religion.

And being born a warg. Ned had more FM's blood than any of his children, in fact, probably twice. He was as Northern as Winterfell itself, and a religious men, yet he wasn't a warg.

You need to be born a warg to be one. So, for me, at least, it's more about magic than religion and blood. It's more about being connected to the Old Gods.

The question, IMO, should be...What makes someone a warg, or not? What makes you being one of thousand? The blood, the culture and the religion? Then every Northern but the Manderlys should be wargs. Why Sansa, or Bran, who are half Tully, are wargs? I think we don't know the answer yet.

[Kasporio]

You dont need to actively worship the old gos. They're like... everywhere.

[Ingelheim]

The direwolves sent by whom? The Old Gods.

I'd say Bloodraven, but both of these are theories. We don't know who sent the Direwolves yet, more, likely, it was BR.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

No, it's entirely unfair to say that just because real world humans interbreed across ethnic backgrounds all the time and have done for years that the people in Martin's world do so also. It's very clear that the First Men keep to themselves more than anything else.

As I already mentioned, the Hightowers, Daynes, Lannisters, Durrendons, Brackens, Blackwoods and Royces disprove that statement.

If this is the case, then surely it was much more likely that pretty much anyone would be able to ride a dragon, because as shown in TPatQ, only those of Valyrian heritage can, and after millenia as the largest empire in the world, pretty much everyone should have some Valyrian blood. However, most people are presented as unable to tame a dragon.

And it's strongly implied that Nettles is no dragonseed. It's Targaryen propaganda that implies otherwise.

When do they worship the Old Gods? I'm not ruling out the possibility, I just don't recall any moment when they actively have the OGs in their life.

In Kings Landing, in Harrenhal, in the Eyrie Sansa misses the godswood, same as Arya misses trees in Braavos.

I still don't understand why you try to link it to the "blood". There are no hints for that at all and good arguments against it.

[King of Winters]

I'd say Bloodraven, but both of these are theories. We don't know who sent the Direwolves yet, more, likely, it was BR.

Bloodraven was probably the one to have it sent south, and there's a theory that the reason Gared was kept alive was so he could escort the Direwolf South, via the Black Gate, and then killed it with a piece of antler. The tines of the antlers were snapped off, so it fashioned into a weapon by someone and so wasn't a random stag that killed it, as the TV show showed.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

That's the key. Bran has MORE FM'S BLOOD for sure than Jon and BR. And Arya. Yet they are clearly weaker than BR. Bran could be as strong as him, maybe even more powerful, but I don't think any other Stark children could match BR.

Now...why is that? It's not about the blood then...so, maybe it has something to do with magic and worships, don't you think?

How about the fact that Bran is a Greenseer and the others aren't? He has more powers than they do.

Hopefully we'll get more information about this either in the prequel novellas, or TWoW.

[Ingelheim]

Bloodraven was probably the one to have it sent south, and there's a theory that the reason Gared was kept alive was so he could escort the Direwolf South, via the Black Gate, and then killed it with a piece of antler. The tines of the antlers were snapped off, so it fashioned into a weapon by someone and so wasn't a random stag that killed it, as the TV show showed.

I liked this theory, but it's not even necessary. There are a 99% of probabilities for BR sending the Direwolves.

How about the fact that Bran is a Greenseer and the others aren't? He has more powers than they do.

Hopefully we'll get more information about this either in the prequel novellas, or TWoW.

Isn't BR a Greenseer too? He's half Targaryen. As Bran is half Tully. Yet they are Greenseers.

Warging has nothing to do with blood, but rather, with connection to the Old Gods.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

<snip

Isn't BR a Greenseer too? He's half Targaryen. As Bran is half Tully. Yet they are Greenseers.

Warging has nothing to do with blood, but rather, with connection to the Old Gods.

The quote I used was questioning why Bran has greater powers than his siblings do. That's what I was answering. I'm not participating in the "blood versus religion" argument.

[Ingelheim]

The quote I used was questioning why Bran has greater powers than his siblings do. That's what I was answering. I'm not participating in the "blood versus religion" argument.

Oh, sorry then. I didn't read carefully.

[Free Northman Reborn]

People would grasp this issue much better if they accepted the existence of the spiritual side of each person in Westeros.

Warging is a spiritual gift. Some individuals receive this blessing from the Old Gods. How they are selected is a subjective decision by the Old Gods.

Part of it is First Man blood. Part of it is adherence to the Old Gods faith. Part of it is probably BLOODLINE blessings. As in a particular family like the Starks being blessed 8000 years ago, and the Gift periodically recurring in their bloodline over the millenia.

And part of it is mysterious.

For example:

Bran has only 50% First Man blood. The other half of his bloodline is weakend by Tully blood.

Eddard likely had around 100% First Man blood. But he was no warg. So in Eddard's case, he had the First Man blood, the Stark bloodline blessing and the First Man faith, but it was not part of the purpose of the Old Gods to grant him the Gift.

So there is probably a grander spiritual cycle that we cannot perceive at this stage - and probably never will - which overrules the other prerequisites.

On the flip side, I doubt that an Andal southroner with the standard Westerosi 10% First Man blood in his heritage, who worships the Seven will ever be a warg. At the same time, Sansa is far from a devout worshipper of the Old Gods, but she has the Gift.

It is part of the deeper purpose that we are not privy too.

[Lonin]

I've never really understood the concept and how it works.

Bran is definitely a warg, and so was Orell, but is this like a special gift? Or can anyone do it with training? Jon Snow can apparently do it, but why not Arya or Robb? Or any other Starks? Or anyone else in the world for that matter?

Plus, how does it really work? Is warging taking over the body of a creature (or any other man as demonstrated with Hodor) and living through it, or verbally giving it commands? Because I've seen that when Bran warged once into Summer, who thought that an elk was prey, Bran kept telling him not to eat it, instead of Bran being the direwolf and just avoiding it.

Could someone explain please?

I agree with the OP. I would have liked a more definitive explanation on the capabilities/limitations of the wargs and skinchangers. As it stands now they can have almost unlimited power. Textual references are limited and kind of vague.

[Tijgy]

That's the key. Bran has MORE FM'S BLOOD for sure than Jon and BR. And Arya. Yet they are clearly weaker than BR. Bran could be as strong as him, maybe even more powerful, but I don't think any other Stark children could match BR.

Now...why is that? It's not about the blood then...so, maybe it has something to do with magic and worships, don't you think?

BR always reminds me of Odin.

Odin scarified one of his eyes to gain wisdom.

From wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odin

Further, in Ynglinga saga, Odin is described as venturing to Mímir's Well, near Jötunheimr, the land of the giants. He traveled not as Odin, but as Vegtam the Wanderer, clothed in a dark blue cloak and carrying a traveler's staff. To drink from the Well of Wisdom, Odin had to sacrifice his eye (which eye he sacrificed is unclear), symbolizing his willingness to gain the knowledge of the past, present and future. As he drank, he saw all the sorrows and troubles that would fall upon men and the gods. He also saw why the sorrow s had to come to men.

BR can see the past, present (and future) through the trees.

I always thought BR was a little bit inspired by Odin and that Bran and BR are more powerfull than the other Starks, ... because BR on one side "scarified" (lost) partly his ability to see and Bran on the other side "scarified" (lost) his ability to walk.

Wasn't also said that the greenseers of CotF live less longer than the normal CotF? So maybe the magic needs a sacrifice to work?

[LROSyke]

It trips me out that a whole generation of Stark kids are wargs. Doesn't that kinda go against that 1 in 1000 thing? Hmm.

[Kienn]

It trips me out that a whole generation of Stark kids are wargs. Doesn't that kinda go against that 1 in 1000 thing? Hmm.

BR's own statements go against the 1 in 1000 thing.

"All" of the hundreds/thousands of ravens in and around the cave have singers in them.

Only 4 score (80) cotf left, they've been dying slowly so at best there were 160 cotf a generation ago.

Ravens have a short lifespan (~20 years) so how are hundreds or thousands of ravens possessed by 1/1000 of the ~160 cotf that were alive at the same time...?

Because BR is full of BS.

[The Mother of The Others]

Wargs are weird. Is it that much of an advantage, that they're the north's great hope to turn things around? And you never hear about all the embarrassing side of being a warg like when your raccoon dreams a human dream and makes you sleepwalk into the compost heap and roll around in it real good.

[Lord Reaver]

It trips me out that a whole generation of Stark kids are wargs. Doesn't that kinda go against that 1 in 1000 thing? Hmm.

It's a mystical "one-time event". Kinda like that girl who chucked three dragon eggs on a fire and then walked into it and came out alive with three dragons.

[Audrey Arryn]

I agree it has to do with old god worship rather than blood.