whats the significance of 1 out of 5 stark children looking like Ned?

[Sweetgirl205]

Here's what I wanna know: Why did Cersei not say to Ned "Hey, man, you're gross. Why would I bang my own twin, you sicko? My kids look like me because they're mine, fool." Like, just, so much trouble could have been averted by this.

Ned was an idiot for even bringing it up to her.

[furiousmoose0]

While the other 4 look like a Tully.

Got bored reading the posts past page one sorry. I find your premise lacking. Robb had the "Tully" look I guess as far as hair is concerned, but Cat stated Robb acted exactly like Ned until Jayne showed up. Sansa took after her mother as far as looks (definitely not in actions), but what about Bran and Rickon? It's never said they look like Tullys, or even said they don't look like Starks. In Arya's case, she just didn't display any of her Tully heritage in her features. Sorry but it really doesn't seem like there is evidence to support this....

[The Wolves]

Got bored reading the posts past page one sorry. I find your premise lacking. Robb had the "Tully" look I guess as far as hair is concerned, but Cat stated Robb acted exactly like Ned until Jayne showed up. Sansa took after her mother as far as looks (definitely not in actions), but what about Bran and Rickon? It's never said they look like Tullys, or even said they don't look like Starks. In Arya's case, she just didn't display any of her Tully heritage in her features. Sorry but it really doesn't seem like there is evidence to support this....

It's mentioned several times that Bran and Rickon had the Tully look.

I don't have the exact quotes and I'm to lazy to post them but in Arya's first chapter in AGOT it's mentioned how Jon and Arya have their father's face while Robb, Sansa, Bran, and Rickon have the Tully look easy smiles and fire in their hair.

Catelyn's third chapter in AGOT when she fights off Bran's assassins she mentions how all her children look like her having the Tully look auburn hair and blue eyes except Arya.

And in ACOK in the chapter that Renly is assassinated Catelyn again mentions how all her children but Arya have the Tully look

[The Ned's Little Girl]

Nah, it shows that Arya and Jon are the real Starks. The others are the ones that don't belong.

I trust that you are joking. If not... :bs: Anyone named Stark is a Stark.

As to the OP, the significance of 1 out of 5 Stark children looking like Starks is to show that children have 2 parents. Sometimes a child will resemble one more than the other. Sometimes they are a perfect mixture of both parents. Mind-blowing, eh?

[Stormland's Fury]

It's weird because genetics in Westeros work like Rock-Scissor-Paper. Except the Baratheon gene which is a wild card.

[Stormland's Fury]

I trust that you are joking. If not... :bs: Anyone named Stark is a Stark.

Joffrey certainly wasn't a Baratheon.

And Ramsay was a Bolton through and through even when named Snow.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

It's weird because genetics in Westeros work like Rock-Scissor-Paper. Except the Baratheon gene which is a wild card.

:bs:

[Stormland's Fury]

:bs:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarcasm

[Facebookless Man]

If Sansa was like Ned she'd have died in KL. Unless the Sansa + Joffrey marriage plans had tanked after she told the truth about Joffrey's attack on Mycah.

This:

Ned and Sansa share rather idealized view on world. While Sansa in AGOT lives in a fantasy world from songs, Ned thinks everyone abide to the same code of honor he does. They are basically blind when it comes to love. Sansa never sees Joffrey's true nature, while Ned is quite OK closing one eye to numerous Robert's transgression. Then we have their introvert personality for while Sansa does seem like outgoing type of girl, as the story progresses we see her becoming more and more private, being the quiet wolf Ned is described in the Reed story. Ned, with his calmness, opposed Brandon and Lyanna as much as Sansa opposed Arya. They share rather same sentiment of mercy and compassion. Ned wanted to save Cersei's children and Sansa showed the compassion to many people in her surrounding: from Lollys, Sandor, Lancel, Margaery, even Tyrion when she bowed to him when they ridiculed him. Sansa is truly Ned's child, more than any other of the 5 of them (the only one that gets advantage in front of her is Jon)

is utter nonsense, through and through.

Ned does not believe everyone abides by his same code of honor. The whole point of honor is that you act honorably regardless of whether you expect others to do the same, and regardless of the consequences. Sansa survives in KL by behaving in the exact opposite manner.

Ned is not blind regarding Cersei or Robert, he does what honor dictates regardless. And the fact that he believed he had beaten Cersei at the game does not make him naive in the way a little girl who believes in fairy tales is naive, that's a completely moronic parallel. He knows exactly what he's up against, he just thinks he's won. The fact that he wants to save the kids is something he does share with Sansa - compassion, but that's something that is shared by every other Stark kid, and their mother.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarcasm

...the forum really needs an emote for that.

[Whipsy]

I agree with the others saying that it's a plot device to bring the reader to draw upon the hints that Jon Snow looks only like Arya out of his "siblings" and she looks like Lyanna. Leading to the R+L=J theory.

Now to the physical reason why Arya does not look like her other four sibilings. I am no geneticist and there are no solid facts on hair color in genetics but GRRM is also not a geneticist so lets assume he went with the more err, traditional modern theories on hair color genes. I believe there's the idea that black/brunette hair is a dominate gene over blonde in the passages with the whole "the seed is strong" thing with King Robert and his bastards. However, Red hair is believed to be a mutation (though a recessive one) and less controlled in where it pops up if the genes are there for it. Truthfully though, it comes down to melanin colors. Sansa, Robb, Rickon and Bran have more pheomelanin and Jon and Arya have more eumelanin. Not much of a mystery. Though not very common two brunette parents can produce a blonde child.

[Stormland's Fury]

...the forum really needs an emote for that.

To be fair, it was actually a bit out of context, so I don't blame you.

[Mladen]

This is utter nonsense, through and through.

Ned does not believe everyone abides by his same code of honor. The whole point of honor is that you act honorably regardless of whether you expect others to do the same, and regardless of the consequences. Sansa survives in KL by behaving in the exact opposite manner.

Ned is not blind regarding Cersei or Robert, he does what honor dictates regardless. And the fact that he believed he had beaten Cersei at the game does not make him naive in the way a little girl who believes in fairy tales is naive, that's a completely moronic parallel. He knows exactly what he's up against, he just thinks he's won. The fact that he wants to save the kids is something he does share with Sansa - compassion, but that's something that is shared by every other Stark kid, and their mother.

I disagree. You can call it nonsense, you can call it moronic, but the thing is that Sansa does emulate a lot of Ned.

Wrong. Ned actually believes that everyone are trustworthy. His honorable gullibility is hilarious. He believed LF in the same way as Sansa believed in Joffrey. He never questions the possibility he is being played. And Sansa acted honorably no matter what in KL. She saved Dontos' life, she helped Lancel and frightened women during Battle at Blackwater Bay. She told Margaery about Joffrey out of her compassion, something Ned did with Cersei in AGOT. Sansa remained quiet and obedient, never actually doing anything dishonorable in KL. She mimics her father perfectly. Even Ned's coldness is seen in Sansa by Tyrion. Not the wild rage, but the cold indifference, something Ned knew how to do.

Moronic parallel is that both father and daughter are being tricked into believing those they shouldn't have? It is moronic when we actually see Ned making the same mistakes with Robert Sansa did with Joffrey and Cersei? Compassion is not something shared by all Starks. Cat is emphatic person, but just like Arya, compassion is not the strongest forte. Robb showed little compassion... Jon and Sansa are those we talk in terms of inheriting Ned's compassion. ned is blind about Robert for he is constantly making excuses for him, just as Sansa excused Joffrey...

Saying that Sansa is not like Ned is actually missing lion's share of their arcs.

[Alaynsa Starne]

If Sansa was like Ned she'd have died in KL. Unless the Sansa + Joffrey marriage plans had tanked after she told the truth about Joffrey's attack on Mycah.

This:

is utter nonsense, through and through.

Ned does not believe everyone abides by his same code of honor. The whole point of honor is that you act honorably regardless of whether you expect others to do the same, and regardless of the consequences. Sansa survives in KL by behaving in the exact opposite manner.

Ned is not blind regarding Cersei or Robert, he does what honor dictates regardless. And the fact that he believed he had beaten Cersei at the game does not make him naive in the way a little girl who believes in fairy tales is naive, that's a completely moronic parallel. He knows exactly what he's up against, he just thinks he's won. The fact that he wants to save the kids is something he does share with Sansa - compassion, but that's something that is shared by every other Stark kid, and their mother.

I think Ned was pretty naive to trust LF, who told Ned specifically not to trust him. And he turns a blind eye to Robert pretty frequently, only putting his foot down when it came to Dany. And my friend and I actually had a really long discussion recently about whether or not Ned would have been so merciful had Cersei not been a woman. I think he would have behaved differently if he were up against a man, and I think he would have definitely been much harsher, which shows that Ned was naive about how dangerous Cersei was regardless of her gender. Sansa doesn't believe in fairies and unicorn dreams, she just has an idealistic view of the world. So does Ned, which is why he's so hard set in not acting outside of those ideals whether duty or honor or practicality demands that he must.

Sansa didn't die in KL because LF took her out after the PW. Otherwise her head would have been on the chopping block, same as her father's because she trusted the wrong people. She and Ned aren't the same people, but they are rather similar in their introversion and ability to compartmentalize.

[The Ned's Little Girl]

Joffrey certainly wasn't a Baratheon.

And Ramsay was a Bolton through and through even when named Snow.

Okay, I could have worded it better, but it wasn't about the name - I was mainly trying to pour cold water on the whole "not true Starks" canard, which is utter nonsense. Unless someone writes it as "Sansa is not a true Stark", in which case it is a meh-sort of joke.

[ARYa_Nym]

No. Cat is not that dutiful. If we are going to talk about duties, Ned trumps her. Catelyn proved that she can stir the boat when she wants and she doesn't easily abide to all the rules, something like Arya. No, Sansa is Ned 2.0, and funnily, there is so little of Cat in her.

I would say dutiful is Catelyn's defining trait. She said she always did what her father expected of her. She was the obedient child.

She married Ned gladly and without complaint even though she had no personal interest in him-that's dutiful.

When Ned told her to do something she did it-not questioning him about Jon and she really didn't rebel about Jon. Cersei for example would have reacted differently.

She does abide by the rules. She always dressed her part and was disturbed by the unconventional women she was around but gradually came to like them anyways.

She did do things like releasing Jamie and kidnapping Tyrion but that was out of obligation to protect her family so it's still out of dutifulness.

Being Robb's counselor was out of duty. She felt weary and was not fond of war but served Robb because she felt he needed her counsel. That's dutiful.

Both Ned and Catelyn are dutiful actually.

Anyways, Catelyn was able to empathize with Cersei which says a lot. I think she is empathic but Arya for the most part is not. I don't see her as being cpabable of putting herself in Cersei's shoes. She couldn't even do it for Dareon when he didn't even do anything to her. I think Catelyn's brother Edmure is probably the most compassionate even moreso than Ned is.

I actually think Ned with Robert is more similar to Robb with Theon.

[Mladen]

I would say dutiful is Catelyn's defining trait. She said she always did what her father expected of her. She was the obedient child.

Catelyn may have fulfilled her duty but so have large amount of women from Westeros. Her being obedient daughter and marrying for Ned doesn't mean she is dutiful. Cersei, Margaery, X women had done the same. Catelyn respecting the norms doesn't mean it is her defining trait.

I would agree that both Ned and Cat are dutiful, but we do see Cat breaking the rules rather harshly when she wants to. So, between these two, Arya is much closer to Cat's, not Ned's sense of duty.

For me as I said, Arya is basically Brandon Stark meets Catelyn.

[Facebookless Man]

I think Ned was pretty naive to trust LF, who told Ned specifically not to trust him. And he turns a blind eye to Robert pretty frequently, only putting his foot down when it came to Dany. And my friend and I actually had a really long discussion recently about whether or not Ned would have been so merciful had Cersei not been a woman. I think he would have behaved differently if he were up against a man, and I think he would have definitely been much harsher, which shows that Ned was naive about how dangerous Cersei was regardless of her gender. Sansa doesn't believe in fairies and unicorn dreams, she just has an idealistic view of the world. So does Ned, which is why he's so hard set in not acting outside of those ideals whether duty or honor or practicality demands that he must.

Sansa didn't die in KL because LF took her out after the PW. Otherwise her head would have been on the chopping block, same as her father's because she trusted the wrong people. She and Ned aren't the same people, but they are rather similar in their introversion and ability to compartmentalize.

Ned didn't trust LF because he believed all men are pure of heart, and he didn't have an idealistic view of the snake pit that he knew KL was. Is Theon like Sansa because Ramsay fooled him? Is Dany like Sansa because she trusted MMD? Even if you want to ascribe those mistakes to naivety, it doesn't make naivety the defining trait of those characters, and it doesn't make them selfish little girls who want to live in songs.

Sansa would have died long before the purple wedding if she believed in telling the truth and doing the right thing regardless of the consequences, and lived by that belief.

And besides, you can - rightfully - call Sansa naive but the actual motivation for her choice of Joff over Arya and Cersei over Ned is not her belief that Joff and Cersei are good and trustworthy people. It's the things she wants for herself - it's the self-serving outcome that is important to her. That is in complete opposition to the way Ned's "naivety" works.

[ARYa_Nym]

Catelyn may have fulfilled her duty but so have large amount of women from Westeros. Her being obedient daughter and marrying for Ned doesn't mean she is dutiful. Cersei, Margaery, X women had done the same. Catelyn respecting the norms doesn't mean it is her defining trait.

I would agree that both Ned and Cat are dutiful, but we do see Cat breaking the rules rather harshly when she wants to. So, between these two, Arya is much closer to Cat's, not Ned's sense of duty.

For me as I said, Arya is basically Brandon Stark meets Catelyn.

It does mean she's dutiful. She did things out of sense obligation and she never complained. She was very responsible and she felt that's why she may have been favored by Hoster. Cersei was always trying to find ways out of the system. She didn't have Robert's children. She married him so she could be queen so it wasn't something that she felt she was obligated to do. She wanted it and remember in the beginning she was attracted to Robert unlike Catelyn for Ned. Cersei refused to marry again and she didn't want to surrender her position as regent.

Margaery goes along with whatever plans her family has for her but we still don't know if she has any personal interest in what she's doing. If she's doing it just because Mace says so then she's dutiful as well.

Arya is not dutiful at all. If she had a similar sense of duty to Catelyn she never would have opposed marriage. She never would have opposed being the proper lady and she wouldn't be training with Syrio. She never would have been with the FM which assures she can't do her duty.

Catelyn for the majority of her life is someone who followed the rules and enjoyed doing so. One or two instances does not change her overall character trait. She was dutiful to her house, a dutiful wife (did her role as lady of WF, provided Ned with legitimate heirs), daughter (was prepared to be the perfect heir, married without complaint for war efforts), and mother.

ETA: On Brandon as wild as he was he was going to do his duty as well. He may not have wanted to marry Catelyn but he was going to fulfill his responsibility to his house so that's dutiful.

[Stormland's Fury]

Okay, I could have worded it better, but it wasn't about the name - I was mainly trying to pour cold water on the whole "not true Starks" canard, which is utter nonsense. Unless someone writes it as "Sansa is not a true Stark", in which case it is a meh-sort of joke.

Ah ok, I suspected that after I replied.

You mean the ones who are established as Starks are genuine Starks?

In that case I concur.