The Onion Sleight Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 It's really intresting that they have such a negative view of Dany already. It's completely justified and logical, of course. But she hasn't even started to fail at ruling yet (not much anyway). Her actions and sense of justice is misguided, but she hasn't really started to see the full consequences of it yet, so she hasn't had much of a chance to realise she's wrong. That some still have this view, which I agree with, gives me the impression that Dany's portrayed as darker on the show than in the books. (Now I don't rememeber her storyline in Dance very well, so I may be wrong). Well, some Unsullied think this and some think that, their view is very divided (same with the opinion of book readers, which is absolutely logical, when it comes to such a controversial, polarizing character). I also can't remember this storyline well, but I guess, it's maybe for some the first moment where they realize it's now a break (or rather for now an end) of Badass Conqueror Dany and just the same as they see her struggling with ruling now, some begin to reflect about her actions so far in the past (and see those in a different light) and even if Dany hasn't see the full consequences yet, some Unsullied see the negative points of those (which might (we know: will) make her problems in the future). After her "rising" development the last seasons (especially in the third), it's now a turning situation, and so they wonder what will come next and if her coming development is getting extremer in this "new direction". (If some get the feeling of a heavy reversal for Dany this season, I'm not surprise they're expecting worse things...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aldi_AA Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 It's really intresting that they have such a negative view of Dany already. It's completely justified and logical, of course. But she hasn't even started to fail at ruling yet (not much anyway). Her actions and sense of justice is misguided, but she hasn't really started to see the full consequences of it yet, so she hasn't had much of a chance to realise she's wrong. That some still have this view, which I agree with, gives me the impression that Dany's portrayed as darker on the show than in the books. (Now I don't rememeber her storyline in Dance very well, so I may be wrong). They made her slightly darker by making hizdar more sympathetic. Also in the books she never had the idea that she should have the second sons kill all the masters in yunkai. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
go joff go Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 I think the comparisons between joffrey and dany is a sign of successful storytelling. You are suppose to look at these various characters and realize that they are more similar than one wants to admit. It's the whole Ned chops off a guy's head for breaking an oath to save his family and in turn gets his head chopped off for doing the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mistress of Lemon Cakes Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 So it sounds like the unsullied's views of Daenerys are every bit as varied as book reader views? :P On another note ... super excited about the leaked casting calls for GOT season 5. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady of the Wind Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 They made her slightly darker by making hizdar more sympathetic. Also in the books she never had the idea that she should have the second sons kill all the masters in yunkai. Also, Show Dany locked Xaro and her handmaiden (Doreah?) in a vault which book Dany didn't. And I think the aging-up matters a lot too. In the books you could excuse some of her acions with her age. It's easier to accept a naive 13 year old with a very black-and-white view on the world, than an 18-year old. And I agree this is a sign of good storytelling. It looks like the Meereen storyline might be more engaging for the majority of viewers in the show than in the books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franko99 Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 Also, Show Dany locked Xaro and her handmaiden (Doreah?) in a vault which book Dany didn't. And I think the aging-up matters a lot too. In the books you could excuse some of her acions with her age. It's easier to accept a naive 13 year old with a very black-and-white view on the world, than an 18-year old. And I agree this is a sign of good storytelling. It looks like the Meereen storyline might be more engaging for the majority of viewers in the show than in the books. But by the time Dany is in Meereen she's 16, right? Same as Robb and Jon, and fans always bash them for their mistakes, and untimately cost them their lives. I even dare to say Sansa, who is younger and is constantly called dumb by many readers/viewers as a more mature and realistic view on the world, but that's for another thread. As for how unsullied see Dany, she is more ruthless in the show. And the slavers are less cartoonish/disgusting in the show, which I think is a good move from the show. Slaver's bay didn't seem like a real place in the books. I don't know if it's Emilia or the writting, but she doesn't seem conflicted at all by her actions, it's like she's on "badass mother of dragons" mode all the time. I know she's suposed to put a facade in front of her people, but even when she's alone with Selmy or Jorah she stay the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady of the Wind Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 ^ Yeah right, I forgot (abour her age). I guess I just got the impression that she's a bit childish in the books. As for the rest of your post, I compeltely agree. That's what I was trying to say, well put :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annara Snow Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 Also, Show Dany locked Xaro and her handmaiden (Doreah?) in a vault which book Dany didn't. And I think the aging-up matters a lot too. In the books you could excuse some of her acions with her age. It's easier to accept a naive 13 year old with a very black-and-white view on the world, than an 18-year old. She's about 15 in Astapor and 16 in ADWD. Anyway, that doesn't explain why so many readers are fond of Stannis' very black-and-white view of the world. He's, what, in his late 30s in the books? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady of the Wind Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 Anyway, that doesn't explain why so many readers are fond of Stannis' very black-and-white view of the world. He's, what, in his late 30s in the books? I think it's the combination of Dany's naivite, ruthlessness and black-and-white view of the world which makes her darker. Stannis may have a similar view of the world but he's never outright ruthless the way Dany is and he knows the consequences of his actions, which Dany doesn't. That's my take on it, anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatrickStormborn Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 I think it's the combination of Dany's naivite, ruthlessness and black-and-white view of the world which makes her darker. Stannis may have a similar view of the world but he's never outright ruthless the way Dany is and he knows the consequences of his actions, which Dany doesn't. That's my take on it, anyway. Dany's black-and-white view of the world, however, is linked to SLAVERY, which actually IS a black-and-white issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady of the Wind Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 Dany's black-and-white view of the world, however, is linked to SLAVERY, which actually IS a black-and-white issue. Yes, but it's the combination of that, entirely justified, view and her inability to see the consequences of her actions that makes her a darker character. Since she doesn't understand that destroyning an entire social and economical structure without replacing it with a new one results in chaos, her actions causes suffering and death (arguably) worse than before, despite her good intentions. And I'm not trying to say she's a villain, but I think she has a darker side to her. I think we've gotten a bit off topic though :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franko99 Posted May 28, 2014 Share Posted May 28, 2014 Ok let's try not to turn this thread into another Dany thread. Let's get back on topic. From NeoGAF Absolutely every single person in a position of power, whether it be Joffrey, Ned, Tywin, Robb, Dany, or whoever else, is coming from a place of entitlement and ego. That is the nature of kings, queens, and rulers. They are fundamentally incapable of fully appreciating and empathising from the perspective of a commoner because of their entitled "right" to power and royalty. Even "good guys" like Ned and Robb still have moments where they demand people kiss their arse, bend the right leg, and generally make it known that they, in all their righteousness, call the shots. Tyrion could very well be the only person who bridges the gap, or at least comes closest to. :bang: Reminds me of the guy who said a few pages ago that Tyrion is the only character in the show who will be unable to rape anyone, those people are up to a big surprise about St. Tyrion if they ever read the books Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Onion Sleight Posted May 28, 2014 Share Posted May 28, 2014 Ok let's try not to turn this thread into another Dany thread. Let's get back on topic. From NeoGAF :bang: Reminds me of the guy who said a few pages ago that Tyrion is the only character in the show who will be unable to rape anyone, those people are up to a big surprise about St. Tyrion if they ever read the books I wonder if he meant "only character" of the really big main characters or REALLY "only character in the show"... Because someone should explain me how anyone could imagine e.g. Sam, Jon, Davos, Pod, Selmy, Greyworm, Bran, Jojen (okay, they're kids, but as grown ups), Oberyn, Hodor, and so on raping someone?! Hell, the list's actually really long! I mean, Jaime "Savior of Brienne and Pia" Lannister a rapist?! (Oh, I forgot, 4x03...) Stannis "Castrating every rapist of his host, and being quite uninterested in sex" Baratheon a rapist?! (Oh, he's probably a maybe-rapist for them...) *sigh* But the *cough* "best" *cough* thing I've read since a long time is actually this: If the Iron Throne was given out as an award for being the nicest guy in Westeros, who more deserving to win it than the People's Champ, Renly "the hottie" Baratheon? Dude was all smiles all the time. Quite frankly, it's hard to argue that Renly wouldn't have made a good king, and he probably could have made an effective push for the throne too. Except for one little detail. Renly wasn't ruthless enough, and in the end the much more ruthless Baratheon sibling snuffed out any aspirations Renly had. Dude was a happy go lucky, laid back kinda guy, who went up against some of the most cut throat killers in Westeros. Nice 0, killers 1.Lesson #2: Being nice when you're vying for the Iron Throne, is probably the most sure fire way to get killed in Game of Thrones. Don't you agree Renly? WHAAAT DAFUUUUQ?! Renly was now "the nicest guy in Westeros"!?! Seriously?! :bang: - Being nice was his problem and the reason he got killed?! Yeah, it's pretty nice to steal your older brother's throne and be about to fight and kill him and his army! Absolutely!- "Dude was all smiles all the time"... Yep, that was Renly, especially when he mocked Shireen or laughed about Brienne behind her back, the guy was really a cheerful person! And no way, arrogant or mean; he's the NICEST of all!- "...any aspirations Renly had" - How the f*ck matter his aspirations? Oh, right, if you're the nicest person ever they absolutely matter if you want to be king, 'cause so they are good aspirations!- "... one of the most cut throat killers. Nice 0, Killers 1"...*deep breathing*...Okay, I won't say something to this...*deeeep brething* Really, I love Stannis, but I love all of the Baratheon brothers, Robert and Renly too, as book characters, so I love how they're written, their relationships to each other, their personalities, their differences and similarities, how flawed they are/were aso. My favourite House and I always found their family dynamic extremely interesting, sad, but also so authentic (I recognize myself and my sister in Stannis and Renly/Robert, but with a much better relationship and I'm, funnily, more Renly/Robert and she's very, very Stannis-y)...If somebody thinks Renly would have made a good king, well, okay, to each his own; we could argue about this, but I'm tired of this...Kinslaying is a bad deed, the circumstances of this had been debated so much in the past, it's a controversial situation, yes... BUT! This is such a wrong understanding of his character! I won't say he was the "meanest guy in Westeros" (he wasn't), but "nice" isn't the first thing popping in my head when I think about Renly, more "flippancy" or "arrogant" or "selfish", nice if you didn't knew him well, but else... *more sighing* Saying he wasn't ruthless and too nice makes me wonder if this person actually watched the right show - What Renly did was extremely ruthless and the opposite of nice :bang: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winterfell's Revenge Posted May 28, 2014 Share Posted May 28, 2014 Ok let's try not to turn this thread into another Dany thread. Let's get back on topic. From NeoGAF :bang: Reminds me of the guy who said a few pages ago that Tyrion is the only character in the show who will be unable to rape anyone, those people are up to a big surprise about St. Tyrion if they ever read the books I can't even be shocked anymore. I've seen show watchers make many bizarre claims...like how Sansa was the ONLY actual nice person in all of Westeros. Can't even be shocked at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreams and Prophecies Posted May 28, 2014 Share Posted May 28, 2014 I can't even be shocked anymore. I've seen show watchers make many bizarre claims...like how Sansa was the ONLY actual nice person in all of Westeros. Can't even be shocked at all. More baffled by how Sansa should be "nice" to Tyrion or how Sansa is such a bitch to Tyrion and she should be happy she got married to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drunken Grumkin Posted May 28, 2014 Share Posted May 28, 2014 I think (but I'm not 100% sure) that Bryan Cogman respond to this question a few years ago, the show just skip Jaehaerys, but the Baratheons have Targ blood, they even have a stronger claim, since the Targ relative, was Robert's grandmother, not his great-grandmother. I'll try to find that interview... According to the Lineages and Histories of the Great Houses of the Seven Kingdoms, Robert's mother was "Cassana Baratheon", but the partial text in the column on the right suggests that Lyonel Baratheon was wed to an unknown Targaryen: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-HvskFyDiPjw/T3U4reFTDUI/AAAAAAAAHuU/OWUkSdJXw5w/s1600/Game+of+Thrones+059.JPG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winterfell's Revenge Posted May 28, 2014 Share Posted May 28, 2014 More baffled by how Sansa should be "nice" to Tyrion or how Sansa is such a bitch to Tyrion and she should be happy she got married to him. That drives me nuts as well. Pure nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annara Snow Posted May 28, 2014 Share Posted May 28, 2014 More baffled by how Sansa should be "nice" to Tyrion or how Sansa is such a bitch to Tyrion and she should be happy she got married to him. That's not an Unsullied thing, though - you get that crap a lot from the book readers, too. There's a new "why was Sansa such a bitch to Tyrion" thread every month in the General book section or the Still reading ASOS section. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brewmaster Posted May 29, 2014 Share Posted May 29, 2014 She's about 15 in Astapor and 16 in ADWD. Anyway, that doesn't explain why so many readers are fond of Stannis' very black-and-white view of the world. He's, what, in his late 30s in the books? More readers like Dany than like Stannis, so I'm not sure that this statement means much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xall Posted May 29, 2014 Share Posted May 29, 2014 For me, there are only two storylines which need to be resolved this season - KL/Tyrion and the Wildling attack on the Wall. The rest feels like filler and world building for next season. + Stannis has been in stand-by mode since the battle for KL in S2. + Dany rules over Mereen and her storyline for this season could end right here. Tywins letter will probably shake things up, and we haven't seen much from the dragons this season. (Someone else will try to kidnap one??) + Briennepod and Aryahound are not going to make it to the Eeyrie. They will be turned back at Chekhov's gate and perhaps meet and fight it out on the road. + Theon will help Ramsay to take the Moat and Boltons army will return North. That whole storyline feels just like an excuse why the Northerners can't help defend the Wall + Bran will arrive at his special tree and find something??? So my guess: Episode 8 - Trial by combat Episode 9 - Wildlings attack the Wall - GIANTS!!! Episode 10 - Check in with all characters and set something interesting up for next season. My death predictions for the remaining three episodes: + The Mountain - Cersei will try to have Tyrion killed by some other means after Oberyn wins the trial. + Shae - by Cersei + Loras - by Cersei + One of Danys dragons + Yara - by Ramsay + Gilly by Ygritte and Sam will blame Jon for it. + Thorne by a giant + Pyp and Grenn and the boy from the village + The Hound (at the hands of Brienne) Maybe it's just me, but sometimes the Unsullied's speculation reminds me eerily of soap opera plot thinking 0_o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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