King Zee Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 The unsullied discontent is entirely the shows fault for handling many plot points so clumsily--something the average viewer won't catch (who the shows clearly made for), but what is definitely caught by sharp viewers like the unsullied. Things like why anyone would ever be stupid enough to trust Littlefinger (a major reason they find it hard to believe he's able to be behind so many things), erm that's from the books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
protar Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 erm that's from the books. Littlefinger is a lot more subtle in the books. The image he presents to the public is the joking, jovial guy who may be greedy and want to make money but ultimately has reliably kept up with Robert's expenses for fifteen years. Show LF is completely unsubtle. He's got that creepy batman voice, he monologues about his motives, there just isn't really anything about him that makes you believe he'd ever be trusted by anyone (except Ned because...Ned). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatrickStormborn Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 erm that's from the books. In the show, everyone knows Littlefinger is untrustworthy, including Renly, the Queen of Thorns and Margaery... all of whom then put their trust in him?? The best example is the Queen of Thorns. In season 3, Varys comes to her and tells her that Littlefinger wants Sansa, and that Littlefinger is very dangerous and must be stopped. So she comes up with a plan to stop Littlefinger... only to work with him next season? Are we supposed to believe that the Queen of Thorns is too stupid to make the connection between Sansa carrying the poison, Sansa going missing, and Littlefinger wanting Sansa? No wonder the PTV Unsullied aren't satisfied with the way the plotting is being presented in the show - there are just too many plot-holes. ETA: I also think they'd be happier with the Jon Arryn reveal if it had been revealed that Joffrey was behind the assassination attempt of Bran. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aFeastForDragons Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 I had a conversation with one of my friends recently. She said she loved Dany's story but hated everything to do with the North(Bran, Jon, Iron Born, Reek, Night's Watch etc) because it was to dragged out and boring. Also hated Stannis, Davos and the Red Woman. Is this just someone being very narrow minded and hard to please or does the show really come across this way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Fixit Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 I had a conversation with one of my friends recently. She said she loved Dany's story but hated everything to do with the North(Bran, Jon, Iron Born, Reek, Night's Watch etc) because it was to dragged out and boring. Also hated Stannis, Davos and the Red Woman. Is this just someone being very narrow minded and hard to please or does the show really come across this way? It's worth noting there's quite a vocal reader contingent who also hate Jon (call him Gary Stu) and consider Bran chapters the worst in the books. And of course the Ironborn, who are probably among the most despised and disliked of Martin's creations. So there's that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombies That Were Promised Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 There are so many storylines and characters I don't see the problem with people sticking to just a few of them they like - it's only natural in such a fragmented series. I know I space out during Brienne, Sam, Jon, and Quentyn chapters and others. Though, Victarion and Aeron were surprise hits with me, they are just comical. The way I see it, the more people into the series, for whatever reason, the more the merrier. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjaario Starkharis Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 Looks like Stannis is getting some supporters on PTV now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuncle Kraken Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 My 17 year old nephew likes Jon, Bran, and Dany, in that order. Never read the books. Keeps saying Bran is going to be important, but doesn't have any idea why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbybuilderton Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 But other than my "thoroughly desensitized to violence, thank you the academy of television arts" damage, I'm really hoping that trying get Theon to impersonate Former!Theon will be Ramsay's undoing. I'd hate for it to just be a successful venture. unfortunate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady of the Wind Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 Yanno they made Kind of a Big Deal last season about guests being killed with the rat king story in the last ep. I assumed it meant bad stuff in store for the Freys, but we haven't seen them this season AT ALL. So I wonder, who really holds responsibility in the gods' eyes for the RW? The Freys? The Boltons? Or the Lannisters for masterminding it? Should we expect some devastating Rat King style god revenge for the responsible parties? Hmm? Hehe, bring on the Frey hangings :P :devil: I have to disagree with the ones saying the PTV crew don't seem to like the show anymore. There was an awful lot of hate after the PW and Jon Arryn reveals, but I agree with some of their critique. As others have pointed out, the PW plot is convulted on the show and the Littllefinger-is-behind-everything explanation is far less credible in the show compared to the books. But now that they've moved on from that I don't think the critique is that overwhelming. I'm starting to recognize the tone I remember from previous seasons. There are still plots and stroylines they don't like (see Theon and Asha/Yara), but it's always been that way. EDIT: typos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good Guy Garlan Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 unfortunate. Well, it is Ramsay's undoing eventually, right? I mean, at Moat Cailin Theon gets the first taste of his old identity back and he eventually considers himself as Theon again which in turn gives him the strenght or courage or whatever to save Jeyne. And I think that marked the beginning of the end for the Boltons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hath4 Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 Yeah moat cailin is the start of theons rebirth. But there are still many dark days a head for poor reek. as for ramsay it's a huge victory, 63 flayed ironborn later, though he begins to loose control of his pet as they move on to winterfell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbybuilderton Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 The person clearly meant they hope it happens right then and there, rather than gradually as it does in the books. Indicated by them saying they hope Moat Cailin isn't just a successful journey. That's why I say unfortunate. He goes right back to being a pet. And I don't think sending him to Moat Cailin was what triggered anything in Theon. There were always traces of him remembering who he was. I think it was more being back in Winterfell that triggered it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hath4 Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 No there are some big things that occur there that help awaken him. He finds the strength to mercy kill kenning and it awakens some of the hold theon. when he delivers them he feels old flashes of his ironborn pride. it is the beginning of his rebirth. It is a long process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good Guy Garlan Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 Yeah, but I see bobbybuilderton's point. I guess Unsullied would like to see some kind of pay-off on this storyline soon, which is understandable because they've been exposed to it longer than even us readers. Little do they know that it still has a long way to go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haldebrandt Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 Reports of PTV Unsullied disliking the show are grossly overstated by people who merely seek validation rather than thoughtful critique. Sure, they've been less than impressed by some of the long awaited reveals, and that some bookwalkers are understandably disappointed. Yet they continued to thoughtfully and vigorously debate the show, frustrations and all. Except for trolls, no one spends that much time and energy debating something they dislike, or are even have mixed feelings about. Despite the lack of "this show is teh awesum!!1!" every five minutes, they are deeply invested in this thing. That said, while I don't want their rules to change, I am sympathetic to the notion that they should at least include the HBO viewer guide and Blu-Ray material. They are the exact crowd for which that stuff was designed: viewers who really want to dig into the story. And I suspect the show is written with the extras in mind (writers should want to limit the exposition to what is strictly necessary for the show itself, and relegate the rest to extras). That doesn't excuse plot holes and absurd changes, and the extras certainly won't help with botched characters. But they answer a lot of questions that casual viewers wouldn't even consider and that the Unsullied -- the target audience for the extras -- are obsessed about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
protar Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 Reports of PTV Unsullied disliking the show are grossly overstated by people who merely seek validation rather than thoughtful critique. Sure, they've been less than impressed by some of the long awaited reveals, and that some bookwalkers are understandably disappointed. Yet they continued to thoughtfully and vigorously debate the show, frustrations and all. Except for trolls, no one spends that much time and energy debating something they dislike, or are even have mixed feelings about. Despite the lack of "this show is teh awesum!!1!" every five minutes, they are deeply invested in this thing. That said, while I don't want their rules to change, I am sympathetic to the notion that they should at least include the HBO viewer guide and Blu-Ray material. They are the exact crowd for which that stuff was designed: viewers who really want to dig into the story. And I suspect the show is written with the extras in mind (writers should want to limit the exposition to what is strictly necessary for the show itself, and relegate the rest to extras). That doesn't excuse plot holes and absurd changes, and the extras certainly won't help with botched characters. But they answer a lot of questions that casual viewers wouldn't even consider and that the Unsullied -- the target audience for the extras -- are obsessed about. Sunk cost fallacy could explain why they continue to debate the show despite some seeming to have become rather disillusioned. They've spent four years cordoning themselves off from the rest of the fanbase, dedicating hours of their time to discussing this show. They're not going to quit now even when apparently the majority of the story arcs are boring to them. I really do hope their enthusiasm picks up again in the final few episodes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckwheat Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 The PTV thread about Sansa is worth reading, they seem to mostly get the character, despite the fact that she and here storyline were very much botched by the show and have only started to pick up in this season. One part that is very interesting can also be understood in another way: But I think there is a perversity in most of us that also, wants to mar the unsullied. Just because, and also, because innocence maintained in adversity is a reproof to our own worse natures, our own falling from away from our better selves and aspirations. There is also a mean-spirited impulse to punish naivete in others, especially if we lost our own abruptly or painfully. The impulse can be as small a thing as an older sibling's spilling the beans about Santa, as common (if deplorable) as all kinds of bawdy initiations into adult behaviors, such as sex or drinking, or as cruel as...lots of stuff. ... or spoiling somebody about the future events on a show/in a book? ;)I feel, despite they are talking about Sansa's naivety that she can keep through everything she goes through, some parts might also very well apply to the Unsullied compared to people who want to spoil stuff for them. Is this what spoilers see in the Unsullied, some innocence that they wish they still had and now that they do not, they want to ruin it in the Unsullied too? Or I might be, you know, overthinking that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebevan91 Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 Oh god, 2 more weeks of them talking about Littlefinger, here we go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeus_Invictus Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 You think that's bad, try two more weeks of waiting for Oberyn to finally die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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