Mr Fixit Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 The problem is Graves' idiotic comment about "it becomes consensual later" last week. It's not idiotic, except for those who want to be offended because it isn't 21st century PC or something. GoT isn't a morality play or a reconstruction of a court case. In Jaime's and Cersei's fucked-up twisted relationship it's apparently possible for something that began as "rape" or Jaime "forcing himself upon Cersei" to end up being consensual. That's the way those two roll. We really don't need modern socio-psychological defintions of rape in order for attentive viewers to grasp that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WingZero Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 Yeah, that's what really fucking bothered me about the whole thing. Here you have male writers, male producers, male directors, and male editors all shooting an all out rape scene... ALL these men... and not a single one of them noticed the blatant rape. Says a lot about our society. Rape Culture Check your privilege boys, its gonna be messy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilúvatar Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 There you have it, confirmation of what was clearly shown in the scene. What started out as a forceful encounter was very much consensual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaqen H'gcarl Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 "No, not here" followed five seconds later by "yes!" would have been more than enough. Exactly. If they added one or two "Yes" at the end, this scene would had been saved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Fixit Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 Exactly. If they added one or two "Yes" at the end, this scene would had been saved. In whose eyes? If you think that the encounter was in the end consensual, then roll with it. If not, stick to your guns there as well. Don't let the general consensus shape your opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lady Leela Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Well, from Lena's comments, apparently she didn't either. Then she has one less fan. For the record, I really truly don't believe these people were purposely shooting a rape scene. I haven't even bothered trying to have an opinion about this cause I knew this would happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaqen H'gcarl Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 In whose eyes? If you think that the encounter was in the consensual, then roll with it. If not, stick to your guns there as well. Don't let the general consensus shape your opinion. It feels like Jaime's and Cersei's relation is a little too complicated to use a loaded word like rape. Unless no actually means yes then the scene we saw on television was clearly not consensual. The scene in the book was consensual however, or well, it turned out to be consensual. The problem I have with the scene is that it was really portrayed like a rape, while it should have been portrayed as a fucked up sex scene, but still a consensual one.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilúvatar Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 The problem I have with the scene is that it was really portrayed like a rape, while it should have been portrayed as a fucked up sex scene, but still a consensual one..Looks like a pretty fucked up but censensual sex scene to me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Joker Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 I'm sorry. Let me dumb that down for you: A bunch of men shot a scene in which Jaime forced himself on Cersei, forced her down on her back, ripped her dress off, and fucked her as she struggled to free herself off of him and kept screaming, "NO! DON'T DO THIS! NO!" Neither of the men involved in the shooting of that scene recognized Jaime's actions as rape. They all keep saying that it was consensual because after Jaime completely dominated and pinned Cersei down on the floor, leaving her with absolutely NO choice but to give up, she eventually stopped struggling. At that point, and ONLY AT THAT POINT, did the sex become consensual. Because she just couldn't fight him off anymore. Except, they didn't even show us the part where Cersei gave up. She struggled and kept yelling NO until the scene cut away. Is that easy enough to read, or should I get Elmo to explain it to you? No need to be a bitch about it, by the way. The poster was asking a legit question about the entire cast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaqen H'gcarl Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Looks like a pretty fucked up but censensual sex scene to me... I totally see your point, I think the scene was a little too "rape-y" I guess. Atleast from my preference, but to say that it was a all out rape I think is quite ignorant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lady Leela Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Oh, you mean like in the books? Why didn't you say so in the first place? We could've avoided this misunderstanding. You didn't argue any of my points and instead chose to go the "sarcastic with a strong twist of condescension to diffuse any sort of actual intellectual discussion" route. Which, you know. You could've just ignored my whole post and done yourself a favor. I mean, what is this supposed to mean? Yes, there's rape in the books. Okay? So...? Moving on. I'm surprised by the amount of people who were expecting a follow up to that scene in this week's episode. Clearly they didn't know what the hell they were shooting. But a simple "we fucked up" would go a long ways towards fixing it. I'm also upset about the fact that this whole shit is going to ruin actual plotlines that are relevant: like Jeyne Poole (though I doubt at this point she's going to show up). It already kinda ruined the scene at Craster's this week. And Ramsay. Rape is ugly but it does happen in the world of Game of Thrones and when it happens it's kinda relevant. Myself, I'm upset because between Jaime and Cersei it was unnecessary, especially in an adaptation that already has a problem with two much violence (sexual and otherwise) towards women. This is also gonna fuck up the Shae scene, too. Nobody's gonna see it for what it is, just more violence towards women. I mean, how hard is it to apologize for what was clearly a huge fuck up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Fixit Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 You didn't argue any of my points and instead chose to go the "sarcastic with a strong twist of condescension to diffuse any sort of actual intellectual discussion" route. Which, you know. You could've just ignored my whole post and done yourself a favor. I mean, what is this supposed to mean? Yes, there's rape in the books. Okay? So...? You miss my point. Let me quote you again: Jaime completely dominated and pinned Cersei down on the floor, leaving her with absolutely NO choice but to give up, she eventually stopped struggling. At that point, and ONLY AT THAT POINT, did the sex become consensual. I fail to see the point of your outrage, because this is pretty much what happens in the books as well. Jaime forces himself upon Cersei who initially resists only to give up at a certain point. Sure, in the books Cersei then starts actively encouraging Jaime, but that is not what you seem to take issue with. Point is, in both books and show, Jaime initially forces himself upon Cersei. If you just need to use the word for maximum dramatic effect, you could say he starts to rape her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lady Leela Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 No need to be a bitch about it, by the way. The poster was asking a legit question about the entire cast. No, the poster was being sarcastic and magnanimous, and passive aggressively accused me of thinking some of the male crew are "chauvinistic rapist pigs", when I merely said that it's sad that a lot of men, in this day and age, don't recognize rape when they see it. (Hey, guess what? I also said Lena is full of bullshit, too.) But I guess now I'm a bitch now, too. Cool. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Fixit Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 No, the poster was being sarcastic and magnanimous, and passive aggressively accused me of thinking some of the male crew are "chauvinistic rapist pigs", when I merely said that it's sad that a lot of men, in this day and age, don't recognize rape when they see it. (Hey, guess what? I also said Lena is full of bullshit, too.) I'm not sure you understand what "magnanimous" means. So now Lena also doesn't recognise rape when she sees it? Bad, bad girl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lady Leela Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 LOL. Wow. We should have a beer some time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Fixit Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 LOL. Wow. We should have a beer some time. My place or your place? :cheers: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florina Laufeyson Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 It's not idiotic Its idiotic because the statement contradicts D&D's and NCW's statements. Graves was trying to CYA and it backfired. Then she has one less fan. Im sure shes just going to lose so much sleep over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night'sQueen Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Man, can't they just come out and say "we screwed up, it was not our intention, but we screwed up and we apologize for it". HOW HARD IS IT?Besides, they are all ignoring (or misunderstanding) the bigger point: it's not rape in and of itself that bothers people, it's the fact that they shot a rape scene thinking it was consensual. That's what's fucked up: it's the fact that these people have no idea what rape is.So much this. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sun Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Man, can't they just come out and say "we screwed up, it was not our intention, but we screwed up and we apologize for it". HOW HARD IS IT?Besides, they are all ignoring (or misunderstanding) the bigger point: it's not rape in and of itself that bothers people, it's the fact that they shot a rape scene thinking it was consensual. That's what's fucked up: it's the fact that these people have no idea what rape is. Bingo! Spot on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Fixit Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Bingo! Spot on. Nah, that's not it. I mean, sure that's what it became once everyone hopped onto the bandwagon. It started when salty tears were spilled because of what it supposedly does to Good Boy Jaime's Redemption Train. Cersei, the alleged victim here, is an afterthought in all this hubbub. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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