Could Aegon be the son of Rhaegar and Ashara?

[Hangover of the Morning]

Are you implying that Rhaegar knocked up Ashara at the Tourney at Harrenhal, whilst at the same time proclaiming Lyanna the Queen of Love and Beauty? Then he gave Aegon to his own wife to nurse and raise and nobody in KL noticed that Elia was not in fact pregnant before. Or was Elia pregnant with Aegon at the same time as Ashara with fAgeon? Soon afterwards, Rhaegar kidnapped Lyanna and knocked her up with Jon.

I understand that the ASoIaF genetics makes little sense and doesn't follow the same logic as genetic in our world but inventing crazy ideas, for which there is zero textual evidence is not the way around it. :-) Besides, even here on Earth, the hair colour genetics is not as simple as "dark/brown allele is dominant so both homo and heterozygous individuals have dark hair", as there are more than one gene (and other factors) responsible for person's hair/eye colour.

[Light a wight tonight]

What do you think? How come Aegon has silver hair and purple eyes? can someone please explain this to me? Do we know what the parents of Oberyn, Doran and Elia looked like? Was one of them blond?

The Targaryens have Valyrian coloring. It's common in places with lots of people of Valyrian descent. Lys, for instance, is full of them. It's not just Targs who are like this.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

The whole "Valyrian features" is kinda dumb anyway. For instance, some tribe here in South America are fair of skin, have brown eyes and a bit of squinty eyes. That means I can pass one baby of them as another? there are more features than eye coulour and hair to recognise a person, like the jaw, nose, length of the face, etc. I could pass a Targaryen kid as another one, but not every blonde with purple eyes from Lys would make a Targ, in theory. Not even the Targaryens have the same purple tone, I think.

[Dhana]

Are you implying that Rhaegar knocked up Ashara at the Tourney at Harrenhal, whilst at the same time proclaiming Lyanna the Queen of Love and Beauty? Then he gave Aegon to his own wife to nurse and raise and nobody in KL noticed that Elia was not in fact pregnant before. Or was Elia pregnant with Aegon at the same time as Ashara with fAgeon? Soon afterwards, Rhaegar kidnapped Lyanna and knocked her up with Jon.

I understand that the ASoIaF genetics makes little sense and doesn't follow the same logic as genetic in our world but inventing crazy ideas, for which there is zero textual evidence is not the way around it. :-) Besides, even here on Earth, the hair colour genetics is not as simple as "dark/brown allele is dominant so both homo and heterozygous individuals have dark hair", as there are more than one gene (and other factors) responsible for person's hair/eye colour.

Haha, It does sound really ridiculous if you put it like that. To be fair though, Ashara was with them in King's Landing so it wouldn't have to have happened during the Tourney at Harrenhal. I didn't know that the Martells had Targaryen ancestors (but I remember now that it is explained in the books. Daenerys who the Water Gardens where built for). I also remembered the one Sand Snake Tyene who has blond hair. So for me it adds up now, it is possible that baby Aegon is the son of Rhaegar and Elia. I was just really confused about his looks. I somehow thought that all the Martells where really really dark, so his looks just didn't make sense to me. The whole theory with Ashara was really just a crazy attempt to explain baby Aegon's looks. It could have been any woman really with lighter features than Elia. But there is this email from GRRM (I posted the link above somewhere), where he stresses that Ashara was at King's Landing with Elia, so that's why I even thought of her. But anyway, for me this topic is dealt with, my questions have been answered :)

[Dhana]

Although I have to say, I would find it kinda cool if Young Griff = baby Aegon but then it is revealed that baby Aegon was fake from the beginning :P It would be a new take on the whole imposter/ Perkin Warbeck thing at least!

[Hangover of the Morning]

Haha, It does sound really ridiculous if you put it like that. To be fair though, Ashara was with them in King's Landing so it wouldn't have to have happened during the Tourney at Harrenhal. I didn't know that the Martells had Targaryen ancestors (but I remember now that it is explained in the books. Daenerys who the Water Gardens where built for). I also remembered the one Sand Snake Tyene who has blond hair. So for me it adds up now, it is possible that baby Aegon is the son of Rhaegar and Elia. I was just really confused about his looks. I somehow thought that all the Martells where really really dark, so his looks just didn't make sense to me. The whole theory with Ashara was really just a crazy attempt to explain baby Aegon's looks. It could have been any woman really with lighter features than Elia. But there is this email from GRRM (I posted the link above somewhere), where he stresses that Ashara was at King's Landing with Elia, so that's why I even thought of her. But anyway, for me this topic is dealt with, my questions have been answered :)

I also thought that Rhaegar/Elia kids would turn up taking more after their mother and was really surprised to learn that baby Aegon had the quintessential Valyrian look. After all, didn't the Targaryens marry brothers and sisters mainly to preserve their weirdo recessive looks.

[Twatbeards conspiracy]

well but would that then apply to baby Aegon too? because I read somewhere (I really think that it was his wiki page) that (baby) Aegon had Targaryen coloring while Rhaenys took after her mother and looked like a Martell. My problem is that I can't understand how baby Aegon (not Young Griff) could have purple eyes and silver hair being Elia's son? How is that possible?

When I read the books I assumed that baby Aegon was dark haired and -eyed, as his mother's genes are dominant. So when this silver-haired and purple eyed Young Griff came along I was like seriously? of course he's not the real Aegon! But as I explained above, it turns out that already baby Aegon is described as looking like a Targaryen.. This is what lead me to believe that already baby Aegon was not Elia's son but Rhaegar's son with another woman. So my problem is not really wether Young Griff is Aegon or not but how it is possible that baby Aegon looked the way he did.

Or does this whole Blackfyre theory assume that already baby Aegon was not who people think he was? I'm sorry but I'm just really confused

The Martells are also married into the Targs before this so ressesive(sp) genes.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

I also thought that Rhaegar/Elia kids would turn up taking more after their mother and was really surprised to learn that baby Aegon had the quintessential Valyrian look. After all, didn't the Targaryens marry brothers and sisters mainly to preserve their weirdo recessive looks.

Looks are only one aspect. There's also the possibility that the brother to sister marriages were because of the blood magic that bound dragons to Targaryens (even if there wasn't any blood connection, the Targs seemed to think there was).

My mom went to school with a kid who bragged about his family always marrying their cousins so that they wouldn't dilute the gene pool with lesser intellects. So really the Targ incest is just an exaggerated version of something that actually happens in the world. Rare, but it does happen.

[Bael's Bastard]

I also thought that Rhaegar/Elia kids would turn up taking more after their mother and was really surprised to learn that baby Aegon had the quintessential Valyrian look. After all, didn't the Targaryens marry brothers and sisters mainly to preserve their weirdo recessive looks.

Rhaenys (Rhaegar and Elia's firstborn) took more after the mother, while Aegon (their second child) seems to have had a more Valyrian look.

Baelor Breakspear (Daeron II and Myriah Martell's firstborn) also took more after the mother, while Aerys I (their second child) and Maekar I (their fifth child) had a more Valyrian look (I don't think their third child, Aelinor, or fourth child, Rhaegel, have been described).

[Dhana]

Rhaenys (Rhaegar and Elia's firstborn) took more after the mother, while Aegon (their second child) seems to have had a more Valyrian look.

Baelor Breakspear (Daeron II and Myriah Martell's firstborn) also took more after the mother, while Aerys I (their second child) and Maekar I (their fifth child) had a more Valyrian look (I don't think their third child, Aelinor, or fourth child, Rhaegel, have been described).

Is this the case with all Targaryen firtsborns of "mixed" marriages? (meaning Targaryens not marrying a family member). Does the firstborn baby then always take after the mother? What if a female Targaryen marries outside the family? would then the first born look Targaryen and the other children take after the father?

[Bael's Bastard]

There aren't enough examples to do too in depth a study. It just seems the cases we do have might follow that pattern.

Both cases where there was a typical Valyrian featured Targ male and a Dornish female, the firstborn had the darker hair and Valyrian eyes, and the next child had both Valyrian hair and eyes.

But I don't think the children of Daenerys and the Martell have been described.

In a couple other cases there weren't multiple children, but the firstborn of a typical Valyrian featured Targ male and dark haired non-Targ female had the dark hair of the mother (R+L=J, Aegon IV+Barba Bracken=Bittersteel).

Hopefully the World book will give more examples that can either show there is a pattern or that the examples we had were just coincidental.

[Greymoon]

Also, I just remembered that one of the Sand Snakes is blond. So Oberyn carried a recessive blond gene and most probably Elia too. Turns out I got hung up on a complete non-issue. Too bad, I kinda liked my theory :)

For what's worth the Martells have Targaryen blood somewhere up the line (Maron Martell married Daeron II's sister Daenerys, about a 100 years ago +/- 10 years I think...so more or less five generations if we take 1 gen= 20 years) granted it goes generations back, but if the Targ genes are recessive, they could theoretically have been carried over to the next gen all this time without being expressed. It was my understanding that having a drop of Targaryen blood is what led Quentyn to think that he could control the dragons.

And yes Tyene is blond with blue eyes, hence it’s not impossible and I don't think that even our world genetics are so straightforward.

Edited for spelling

[Bael's Bastard]

We also don't have details about the hair etc of most of the Sand Snakes' mothers except Elaria.

It would also be helpful to have more description and recent ancestry of Alicent Hightower, Viserys' Arryn wife, the mothers of Aegon IVs bastards, and the wives of Baelor BS and Maekar.

[CosimaistheHottest]

Ashara had dark hair.

[Hangover of the Morning]

We also don't have details about the hair etc of most of the Sand Snakes' mothers except Elaria.

It would also be helpful to have more description and recent ancestry of Alicent Hightower, Viserys' Arryn wife, the mothers of Aegon IVs bastards, and the wives of Baelor BS and Maekar.

Yeah, that would be great but I am really not sure that George has it that well planned out or that he is willing to devout countless hours of his time to make sure hat that everybody's hair and eye colour fits some sort of quasi-scientific rules of ASoIaF genetics.

[Bael's Bastard]

Although I agree it may not be something he has meticulously gone through every case to make uniform, I still think it is possible that he might have some basic system at least when it comes to Targs or Valyrians. Either way, those examples quoted would help get a better idea if there is something there, or if those cases were just coincidental.

[SERWIC]

genetics might follow the same general rules in planetos but who says which traits are dominant

[Isobel Harper]

If Young Griff has silver-blond hair and purple eyes (the latter which we know for certain), then Rhaegar*+any woman could be his parents.

While blond hair and blue/purple eyes are recessive in our world, domaninant and recessive genes (at least in regard to Targaryens/Valyrians) is not so cut and dry in ASoIaF. For example, marriage between Daeron II and Mariah Martell, the first Martell-Targaryen marriage at that time, produced a silver-blond haired and violet-eyed son, who would later be Maekar I. But these fairer-trait genes didn't pass to all of their children; their son Baelor (Maekar's brother) still ended up with his mother's dark features.

(*This applies to YG-as-Aerys'-bastard theories as well.)

[JonCon's Red Beard]

For the record, not ALL Targaryens look the same, despite their silver hair and purple eyes.

There was one of them who looked like Aegon I. The fact this is pointed out means that not all of them looked like him. Idem for Dany looking like Naerys. Considering that they all have the same pool gene, those differences come from the Houses they have married. So, let's say Aegon is real, just because he has his father's Targ traits doesn't exclude him to have some from his mother as well, and some other ancestors. Even Rhaegar had Martell blood, as well as Dayne and Blackwood.

Genetics are a tricky thing and the similarity between relatives is an illusion. The brain ignores things it doesn't recognise and fills the gaps. Like, Jon probably having some Targ. features but no one noticing because no one imagines he's Rhaegar's son. Everything that doesn't look Stark, they probably believe he got it from his common mother. Someone who knew Rhaegar and was very close to him could see those traits over his Stark features, though.

[James Arryn]

The best GRRMetics in the book is that Frey/Lannister kid who sounds like what you'd get if you took pieces of each family and glued them together.