The Other Revelation Part II: Ice Scream Edition

[Hielo y Fuego]

You can cut a huge chunk out of the Others and save all of humanity, Jon Snow.

Hmm…humans in Planetos are cruel even to their own children. The Others, it would seem now, not only value human babes, but could even be said to be gentle to them. Humans in Planetos are capable of comitting the worst kind of attrocities to each other, just to sate their lust for power. But I've yet to see an Other stab one of his own in the back.

So who's to say that humanity is not the real villain in this world, and that it needs to be saved?

[Envie]

My vote for what woke the Night's King from his slumber is the Doom of Valeria.

I figure Craster has provided around a hundred sons at least to the Others. There at the end, he had nineteen wives. If he kept them pregnant, that's a birth rate of 2 a month, roughly, and at a 50/50 gender ratio, that's a son and a daughter every month. Sons went straight to the sacrifice and became something that could easily survive the harsh climate beyond the Wall, but daughters had to grow up. They then had to survive childbirth. A survival rate of 18% to 20% for the daughters sounds plausible to me.

I highly doubt all 19 (if that's truly how many he had) of Craster's wives were having babies back to back. You have to take into account many of them were too old now to bear children and the younger ones would be breastfeeding (which statistically lowers pregnancy rate due to hormones) and not every sexual encounter would result in a pregancy every time. Craster couldn't have had sex with more than one or two of them at a time (per day?) - he was getting on in years. So with all that and infant mortality in childbirth (very common in those conditions) it's not highly likely he actually had "99 sons" as he proclaimed (supposedly Gilly's was his 100th?) - I think he was boasting / exaggerating a bit. Had he actually counted every son he'd laid out in the snow from the beginning?

But then again, we're operating in a fantasy story which can suspend disbelief in many ways so if he actually had that many sons then the Others have a fairly good number of 'brothers' supplied by Craster's breeding factory.

As for Mel and Jon, I think Mel's definitely going to try to burn Gilly's son once she finds out about Jon's duplicity and the nature of Craster's sacrifices. Jon may have ironically given her a better candidate for her own sacrifices - the brother to a large host of the Others. And she would present it to Jon in exactly those terms. You can cut a huge chunk out of the Others and save all of humanity, Jon Snow. You just have to burn this baby named after your best friend. What are you going to do?

I like this theory as well as the other one someone made that possibly killing the wrong baby (Mel's assumption it's Mance's baby) could provoke the Others because that was actually Craster's baby and thus their 'rightful brother' taken from them. Either one could have a really amazing outcome to the story!

[Deadwood]

He had no Nintendo, no books, no exotically carved wicker work collection. Not much to do on long nights and the nights are very long North of the wall.

I think it's quite likely he had 100 kids. :D

[ServantOnIce]

http://youtu.be/W6f7QkfDk5Q

So there are 14 chief white walkers and he walked up, 7th in line to the, "Heart of Winter?" He then turns a baby boy into a WW.

Okay, now D and D spent time with GRRM learning the fate and path of every character in the show.

Because none of the gods in ASOIAF are real in the story, I am thinking based on that scene and how supernatural power has worked in the series.

The Night's King = The Great Other = Chief White Walker

and Dany = Azor Ahai Reborn and The DRagons = Lightbringer

We shall see because the reality is D and D will get there first even though they won't get there better.

[Modesty Lannister]

Look how well the NW oath applies on the Others in the light of Craster's baby revelation.

Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death. I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children. I shall wear no crowns and win no glory. I shall live and die at my post. I am the sword in the darkness. I am the watcher on the walls. I am the fire that burns against the cold, the light that brings the dawn, the horn that wakes the sleepers, the shield that guards the realms of men. I pledge my life and honor to the Night's Watch, for this night and all the nights to come.

Why the walls? Where are the other walls?

[Littlefinger of the Hand]

Look how well the NW oath applies on the Others in the light of Craster's baby revelation.

Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death. I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children. I shall wear no crowns and win no glory. I shall live and die at my post. I am the sword in the darkness. I am the watcher on the walls. I am the fire that burns against the cold, the light that brings the dawn, the horn that wakes the sleepers, the shield that guards the realms of men. I pledge my life and honor to the Night's Watch, for this night and all the nights to come.

Why the walls? Where are the other walls?

Actually not...... The WW are the cold and the NW the fire that burns against it.

[snowy]

Hmm…humans in Planetos are cruel even to their own children. The Others, it would seem now, not only value human babes, but could even be said to be gentle to them. Humans in Planetos are capable of comitting the worst kind of attrocities to each other, just to sate their lust for power. But I've yet to see an Other stab one of his own in the back.

So who's to say that humanity is not the real villain in this world, and that it needs to be saved?

And this sort of mental rumbling is what keeps passing through my noggin. Until Martin shows the truth of the matter this is what I will suspect.

[Hielo y Fuego]

And this sort of mental rumbling is what keeps passing through my noggin. Until Martin shows the truth of the matter this is what I will suspect.

Good to see I'm not alone in this line of thinking.

IMO, Martin may be trying to illustrate the damage that mankind is inflicting on the world through our endless wars and struggles for power, which in the end is nothing but a shadow on the wall, as show-Varys wisely put it.

Whether it's fictional ice creatures or fire-breathing Dragons, or very real tsunamis or wildfires, man should know better than to overlook the dangers of messing with mother Nature and pissing her off.

[Modesty Lannister]

Good to see I'm not alone in this line of thinking.

IMO, Martin may be trying to illustrate the damage that mankind is inflicting on the world through our endless wars and struggles for power, which in the end is nothing but a shadow on the wall, as show-Varys wisely put it.

Whether it's fictional ice creatures or fire-breathing Dragons, or very real tsunamis or wildfires, man should know better than to overlook the dangers of messing with mother Nature and pissing her off.

Absolutely. I love it when GRRM says he is not inspired by zeitgeist.

[Modesty Lannister]

Actually not...... The WW are the cold and the NW the fire that burns against it.

I love it when I find someone who is sure of something in the GRRM's world. :-)

[Littlefinger of the Hand]

Of course You can never be sure about GRRM. But icy demons forge a pact with a human-like monster to give his sons to them and let him be, and use these kids to destroy humanity in the world, not just the lords, lordlings, wealthy, powerful or simple wicked who are evil doers and damage the others, but every single man woman and child who already suffer by their fellow humans...

Just allow me to believe that these gentle creatures who gently decapitate humans even in the prologue of the saga do not have gentle motives and aren't here to help the poor and the suffering.

[Hielo y Fuego]

Of course You can never be sure about GRRM. But icy demons forge a pact with a human-like monster to give his sons to them and let him be, and use these kids to destroy humanity in the world, not just the lords, lordlings, wealthy, powerful or simple wicked who are evil doers and damage the others, but every single man woman and child who already suffer by their fellow humans...

Just allow me to believe that these gentle creatures who gently decapitate humans even in the prologue of the saga do not have gentle motives and aren't here to help the poor and the suffering.

That's because you're looking at it from a human perspective. How do you think that all of those animals mankind has wiped out from the face of the earth felt about being hunted for centuries to no end, not for food or clothing, but for mere fun, by man?

ETA: The Others are not clearly not human. Like the Agents in the Matrix, they may very well be looking at the human race as some kind of virus or plague. Why should they concern themselves with what must clearly feel like a lesser race of beings to them, who are destroying their world, anymore than we care about vermin?

[Littlefinger of the Hand]

You mean cats eating their babes, monkeys eating the babes of hostile packs of MONKEYS, ants enslaving other ants to do the hard work, male dolphins forming gangs to rape any female dolphin they encounter, orc whales playing with smaller mammals, and some times not to eat them, or young cheetahs during their training who let their pray to slowly die from bleeding because they got bored of the game and were fed from the prey their mother killed????? They would all say: " yea! men are gone, the throne is empty let's all play "a game of thrones:species edition"":D

Anyway I got your point and think it possible.

I just think the WW and the Dragons are there to emphasize the vanity of the game of thrones and of the pursuit of power. Anything great schemers have accomplished, stepping over dead bodies, is about to melt and burn in a few moments from a small unstable factor which will be proved to be the real threat and should have been their main concern and worry.

Translating in real world terms it could be environmental disasters or even the finite of life itself. DEATH, inevitable death.

And maybe afterlife judgment(Martin stated he is Catholic. So this concept is for sure in the back of his head even if he doesn't believe in it)

[Littlefinger of the Hand]

ETA: The Others are not clearly not human. Like the Agents in the Matrix, they may very well be looking at the human race as some kind of virus or plague. Why should they concern themselves with what must clearly feel like a lesser race of beings to them, who are destroying their world, anymore than we care about vermin?

Exactly how all the "evil" characters of GRRM are thinking. They have clearly different moral code from us and from others in the books and feel superior and justified to step on lesser beings.

You stated it perfectly and completely agree with you on this

[trgryn-strk-lnstr-mrtell]

Translating in real world terms it could be environmental disasters or even the finite of life itself. DEATH, inevitable death.

I like...valar morgulis [emoji16]

[Littlefinger of the Hand]

I like...valar morgulis [emoji16]

Thumbs up

[Hielo y Fuego]

I just think the WW and the Dragons are there to emphasize the vanity of the game of thrones and of the pursuit of power. Anything great schemers have accomplished, stepping over dead bodies, is about to melt and burn in a few moments from a small unstable factor which will be proved to be the real threat and should have been their main concern and worry.

Translating in real world terms it could be environmental disasters or even the finite of life itself. DEATH, inevitable death.

And maybe afterlife judgment(Martin stated he is Catholic. So this concept is for sure in the back of his head even if he doesn't believe in it)

:agree: 100%

Everyone in Westeros keeps ignorning the two huge and imminent threats looming on the horizon, b/c they're too busy playing their precious game of thrones. They keep weakening each other's houses, destroying the smallfolk (along with all of the important work that they do to help sustain the great lords, their ladies and their keeps) and winter's not coming anymore. It's already here. And it will be the day of the reckoning, or judgment. Absolutely.

Now, Game of Thrones may be the TV show's name, but as we know, the books are titled A Song of Ice and Fire: the Others and dragons. IMO, it couldn't be clearer than that.

Valar Morghulis indeed.

[Modesty Lannister]

Of course You can never be sure about GRRM. But icy demons forge a pact with a human-like monster to give his sons to them and let him be, and use these kids to destroy humanity in the world, not just the lords, lordlings, wealthy, powerful or simple wicked who are evil doers and damage the others, but every single man woman and child who already suffer by their fellow humans...

Just allow me to believe that these gentle creatures who gently decapitate humans even in the prologue of the saga do not have gentle motives and aren't here to help the poor and the suffering.

Did I ever say that? How did you come to that conclusion? I just pointed out that the NW oath can be twisted around to fit the Others. Or parts of it. Does that look like a fully developed theory to you that you should immediately jump onto and tear to pieces? I was inviting a civilised conversation on it. And why are WALLS mentioned in the oath? There is one Wall. As for what you wrote in the above quote, it looks like some elaborate theory I haven't heard before. Care to share? I am allowing you to believe anything you like. Why such hostility for God's sake? We are discussing a book, a text. I was inviting a discussion on a text. This is supposed to be fun.

[trgryn-strk-lnstr-mrtell]

Did I ever say that? How did you come to that conclusion? I just pointed out that the NW oath can be twisted around to fit the Others. Or parts of it. Does that look like a fully developed theory to you that you should immediately jump onto and tear to pieces? I was inviting a civilised conversation on it. And why are WALLS mentioned in the oath? There is one Wall. As for what you wrote in the above quote, it looks like some elaborate theory I haven't heard before. Care to share? I am allowing you to believe anything you like. Why such hostility for God's sake? We are discussing a book, a text. I was inviting a discussion on a text. This is supposed to be fun.

Not to make things worse but your comments are generally a bit hostile/smug...if you want to have a fun civilised discussion maybe you could take the first step and tone things down a bit [emoji4]

[Modesty Lannister]

Not to make things worse but your comments are generally a bit hostile/smug...if you want to have a fun civilised discussion maybe you could take the first step and tone things down a bit [emoji4]

I didn't know you know my comments so well and made a judgement on them. Good for you. Being judgmental must be fun for some people.