Aussies LXII: ICAC, Budgets and Beer

[The onion wight]

The whole winkgate scandal descended into ten kinds of stupid. If a little old lady told me she was supplementing her pension by working a phone sex line I'd have laughed my arse off. After I'd finished wiping away the tears I'd have been extremely sympathetic about her plight and all..goes without saying.

[Arkhangel]

The whole winkgate scandal descended into ten kinds of stupid. If a little old lady told me she was supplementing her pension by working a phone sex line I'd have laughed my arse off. After I'd finished wiping away the tears I'd have been extremely sympathetic about her plight and all..goes without saying.

'I'd have been extremely sympathetic about her plight after I'd finished wiping away the tears of laughter.'

Can you really not see why what you just said is contradictory? Frankly I'm amazed that it would need to be explained to anyone why it's not cool to have a laugh at the expense of a 67 year old who has been forced into a form of sex work by poverty. Her life may be a joke to you, but I doubt she finds it very funny.

[sToNED_CAT]

Can you really not see why what you just said is contradictory? Frankly I'm amazed that it would need to be explained to anyone why it's not cool to have a laugh at the expense of a 67 year old who has been forced into a form of sex work by poverty. Her life may be a joke to you, but I doubt she finds it very funny.

I doubt she was really forced to accept this particular job. Sexlines simply pay better, than comparable phone support jobs, so she took it for more money.

And yes it is pretty funny to imagine those dudes on other side of line furiously masturbating to the sound of voice of 67 years old lady

[The onion wight]

'I'd have been extremely sympathetic about her plight after I'd finished wiping away the tears of laughter.'

Can you really not see why what you just said is contradictory? Frankly I'm amazed that it would need to be explained to anyone why it's not cool to have a laugh at the expense of a 67 year old who has been forced into a form of sex work by poverty. Her life may be a joke to you, but I doubt she finds it very funny.

The most surprising thing for me is that there are still chronic masturbators out there who still use phone sex lines. I mean have they never heard of the internet?

I doubt she was really forced to accept this particular job. Sexlines simply pay better, than comparable phone support jobs, so she took it for more money.

And yes it is pretty funny to imagine those dudes on other side of line furiously masturbating to the sound of voice of 67 years old lady

Yep. It's not so much the plight of the pensioner, such that it is, it's more the mental picture. Congrats to Abbot for not completely losing it, I would have. The whole story is the classic definition of a media beat up, feigned outrage and all.

[Lady Woodland]

The most surprising thing for me is that there are still chronic masturbators out there who still use phone sex lines. I mean have they never heard of the internet?

Yep. It's not so much the plight of the pensioner, such that it is, it's more the mental picture. Congrats to Abbot for not completely losing it, I would have. The whole story is the classic definition of a media beat up, feigned outrage and all.

Abbott's behaviour was totally inappropriate for ANY 1st world country's idea of an elected politician & is hardly deserving of your congratulations, Abbott should have been shocked & appalled at the callers circumstances, and showed a little compassion & decency.

For the record I totally agree it's a media beat up that he fully deserves, the man is a complete idiot. It's hardly the first time he's exhibited uncalled for, sexist behaviour about women. He should absolutely be removed as the minister for women I can't think of anyone less appropriate for this portfolio.

[Stan the Man Baratheon]

Someone needs to axe Bishop.

[The onion wight]

Abbott's behaviour was totally inappropriate for ANY 1st world country's idea of an elected politician & is hardly deserving of your congratulations, Abbott should have been shocked & appalled at the callers circumstances, and showed a little compassion & decency.

For the record I totally agree it's a media beat up that he fully deserves, the man is a complete idiot. It's hardly the first time he's exhibited uncalled for, sexist behaviour about women. He should absolutely be removed as the minister for women I can't think of anyone less appropriate for this role

.

Abbots problem is that he's too keen to placate his critics. He's forever apologising and justifying. No matter what he does or says the left are going to hate and despise him anyway. Sticking a levy on higher earners was his way of showing that he was hitting his own supporters and not just the welfare dependent. What good did it do him? His opponents still hate his guts, all he achieved was upsetting his own base. In today's hyper partisan world it's better to run from a more extreme position, as at least your base will fight for you. Abbots is trying to be an old fashioned centrist, which suits neither the times or his temperament.

[karaddin]

Yeah that's not his problem. And that winking shit was disgusting and sexist, like he has consistently been his whole time as opposition leader, he's just been given a ridiculous amount of tolerance by the media, some due to blatant bias and the others a misguided attempt at "balance".

[The Winged Shadow]

.

Abbots problem is that he's too keen to placate his critics. He's forever apologising and justifying. No matter what he does or says the left are going to hate and despise him anyway. Sticking a levy on higher earners was his way of showing that he was hitting his own supporters and not just the welfare dependent. What good did it do him? His opponents still hate his guts, all he achieved was upsetting his own base. In today's hyper partisan world it's better to run from a more extreme position, as at least your base will fight for you. Abbots is trying to be an old fashioned centrist, which suits neither the times or his temperament.

He puts a levy on and is suddenly a centrist? what other policies do you think contributes to his "centrist" status? I am very curious because that budget is very very far from anything resembling coming from a centrist.

For what its worth, I like the levy. Lazy policy but hopefully it will pass. If he was even remotely serious about fixing our structural revenue problems, he would've gone after widening gst, super taxation, negative gearing etc. If what some reports are saying are true, which is that Hockey is after broadening/increasing gst with the goal of getting rid of income tax at some point in the future, that is something which, in my mind, is a worthwhile cause. GST is a very efficient and stable (assuming it gets broadened) way to collect tax, regressive as it may be. But the regressiveness can dampened via the lack of income tax, or other social programs. Not to mention more resources will be freed up cause you don't have to do tax return etc.

[The Real Will]

.

Abbots problem is that he's too keen to placate his critics. He's forever apologising and justifying. No matter what he does or says the left are going to hate and despise him anyway. Sticking a levy on higher earners was his way of showing that he was hitting his own supporters and not just the welfare dependent. What good did it do him? His opponents still hate his guts, all he achieved was upsetting his own base. In today's hyper partisan world it's better to run from a more extreme position, as at least your base will fight for you. Abbots is trying to be an old fashioned centrist, which suits neither the times or his temperament.

I don't think Abbot is even slightly interested in placating his critics. If anything, he seems to revel in their disapproval and actively courts it. I think he probably does care about placating the segment of his base who aren't wealthy, as well as a sufficient percentage of swing voters to allow him to keep his job. Even the perception of enjoying an elderly lady's misfortune is probably not the best way to go about that as, whatever you might privately think of its importance, it's guaranteed to turn away at least some percentage of people of all political affiliations.

Even more so, at the moment, he needs to create enough of a perception of public backing to make some section of the senate blink. As it stands, Labor, the Greens, and PUP could write a budget of their own (if they could agree on one) for Abbot to present to the lower house and he'd have to seriously consider it.

The debt levy thing isn't about centrism or critic-placation either. He needs to be able to make the argument that everyone is suffering equally under this budget (no matter how disingenuous), and he can't really do that without cause some token pain to the wealthy. Abbot is centrist only in the sense that he isn't an ideologically pure right-wing capitalist. He's a straight up right-wing religious culture warrior of the first order, however. The comparisons the George Bush actually seem more accurate as time goes on.

[Paxter]

But the regressiveness can dampened via the lack of income tax, or other social programs. Not to mention more resources will be freed up cause you don't have to do tax return etc.

Well they can't abolish income tax altogether - you would need a massive consumption tax to do that. And I very much doubt that the majority of the income tax cuts will occur at the lower income brackets...

[The Winged Shadow]

Well they can't abolish income tax altogether - you would need a massive consumption tax to do that. And I very much doubt that the majority of the income tax cuts will occur at the lower income brackets...

I think the idea was to abolish the lower income brackets, not to totally dismantle income tax. But I don't really know exact plans as its just speculations atm. But I think you are right in that it is unlikely to happen, or atleast the drop in tax is likely to go to the top brackets.

Update on the BWB Movie Night. So far 7th June seems to be a go:

Attending - so far

Brook

Karaddin

The Winged Shadow

Paxter (but not for the movie apparently cause he is too cool for xmen or something.....and a bit of a wanker)

BeeTrix

Lady Woodland, Onioin wight, Stan the man, or other new folks, feel free to join us if you are around Sydney.

[Paxter]

I think the idea was to abolish the lower income brackets, not to totally dismantle income tax. But I don't really know exact plans as its just speculations atm. But I think you are right in that it is unlikely to happen, or atleast the drop in tax is likely to go to the top brackets.

Update on the BWB Movie Night. So far 7th June seems to be a go:

Attending - so far

Brook

Karaddin

The Winged Shadow

Paxter (but not for the movie apparently cause he is too cool for xmen or something.....and a bit of a wanker)

BeeTrix

Lady Woodland, Onioin wight, Stan the man, or other new folks, feel free to join us if you are around Sydney.

Horza will also likely attend, and will naturally skip X-Men because it is a piece of crap. We will likely be found in a nearby venue spending the $40 saved on movie tickets, on drinks.

[karaddin]

$40 seems inflated, had we already decided on imax 3D or something? Personally I'd rather go 2D, perhaps the Dendy in Newtown. Certainly no bias involved now I live ~5minute walk away now.

[The Real Will]

I think the idea was to abolish the lower income brackets, not to totally dismantle income tax. But I don't really know exact plans as its just speculations atm. But I think you are right in that it is unlikely to happen, or atleast the drop in tax is likely to go to the top brackets.

I don't really understand this craze to increase the GST. Even if you only abolish lower income brackets you'd still effectively be increasing taxes on the poorest, those who either don't currently pay income tax, or pay at a very low rate, as they gain next to nothing from abolishing income tax and pay a great deal more from a broader or higher GST. The GST is inherently regressive and the more precedence it's given in our tax system the more regressive the overall system becomes. If taxes have to be higher (and they probably do), I don't see why we wouldn't increase income tax. It's a far more precise instrument.

Of course, I understand why Hockey would prefer a GST increase. But he's compulsively driven to screw poor people, so he has an excuse.

Update on the BWB Movie Night. So far 7th June seems to be a go:

Attending - so far

Brook

Karaddin

The Winged Shadow

Paxter (but not for the movie apparently cause he is too cool for xmen or something.....and a bit of a wanker)

BeeTrix

Lady Woodland, Onioin wight, Stan the man, or other new folks, feel free to join us if you are around Sydney.

I'm not sure, at this point, if I have plans, but I'm kind of interested in coming along.

[brook]

$40 seems inflated, had we already decided on imax 3D or something? Personally I'd rather go 2D, perhaps the Dendy in Newtown. Certainly no bias involved now I live ~5minute walk away now.

For completely reasonable and unbiased reasons I approve of this suggestion. :p

Am happy to go anywhere but would really prefer 2D as well, 3D gives me headaches.

I don't really understand this craze to increase the GST. Even if you only abolish lower income brackets you'd still effectively be increasing taxes on the poorest, those who either don't currently pay income tax, or pay at a very low rate, as they gain next to nothing from abolishing income tax and pay a great deal more from a broader or higher GST. The GST is inherently regressive and the more precedence it's given in our tax system the more regressive the overall system becomes. If taxes have to be higher (and they probably do), I don't see why we wouldn't increase income tax. It's a far more precise instrument.

Of course, I understand why Hockey would prefer a GST increase. But he's compulsively driven to screw poor people, so he has an excuse.

I'm not sure, at this point, if I have plans, but I'm kind of interested in coming along.

For obvious reasons I'm pretty unhappy about the 'abolish income tax and increase the gst' suggestions too.

Hope you can make it!

[The Winged Shadow]

Horza will also likely attend, and will naturally skip X-Men because it is a piece of crap. We will likely be found in a nearby venue spending the $40 saved on movie tickets, on drinks.

Excellent, thanks for volunteering the first round!

Btw, this one had some really good reviews, apparently best of all the X-Men movies. So may not want to miss out on it!

$40 seems inflated, had we already decided on imax 3D or something? Personally I'd rather go 2D, perhaps the Dendy in Newtown. Certainly no bias involved now I live ~5minute walk away now.

For completely reasonable and unbiased reasons I approve of this suggestion. :P

Am happy to go anywhere but would really prefer 2D as well, 3D gives me headaches.

Newtown should be doable. It's been a while since our last meet there. 2D should be fine, I don't think any of us are really all that into 3D fad anyway. Just checked ticket prices in Sydney, around $20. Maybe you guys should come up to Newcastle, its $9 here :P

I don't really understand this craze to increase the GST. Even if you only abolish lower income brackets you'd still effectively be increasing taxes on the poorest, those who either don't currently pay income tax, or pay at a very low rate, as they gain next to nothing from abolishing income tax and pay a great deal more from a broader or higher GST. The GST is inherently regressive and the more precedence it's given in our tax system the more regressive the overall system becomes. If taxes have to be higher (and they probably do), I don't see why we wouldn't increase income tax. It's a far more precise instrument.

Of course, I understand why Hockey would prefer a GST increase. But he's compulsively driven to screw poor people, so he has an excuse.

I'm not sure, at this point, if I have plans, but I'm kind of interested in coming along.

Being a lefty, initial reaction is against GST changes. But the few economic writers that I follow seem to agree that GST broadening should happen. It's not an increase, just broadens to include education and healthcare. The idea is that by expanding it into these two industries, where the growth have been the largest, you capture that growth and use the revenue to subsidise the poor/those hardest hit (much like how carbon tax revenue was split up). Ideally I would much prefer the top earners pay more, but its hard to see that happening given the power/inlfuence they tend to wield. I don't have that good of an understanding of it all, I must confess, considering it is not my field, so my acceptance of GST broadening is primarily me accepting the suggestions of economists whom i respect.

It would be good to have you come to the BWB meet :). Not sure if you've been to one before. I didn't realise you were a Sydney-sider. Feel free to PM me your number if you want to be kept updated on future bwb meet related stuff.

[Gillio]

I think the idea was to abolish the lower income brackets, not to totally dismantle income tax. But I don't really know exact plans as its just speculations atm. But I think you are right in that it is unlikely to happen, or atleast the drop in tax is likely to go to the top brackets.

Update on the BWB Movie Night. So far 7th June seems to be a go:

Attending - so far

Brook

Karaddin

The Winged Shadow

Paxter (but not for the movie apparently cause he is too cool for xmen or something.....and a bit of a wanker)

BeeTrix

Lady Woodland, Onioin wight, Stan the man, or other new folks, feel free to join us if you are around Sydney.

If I win lotto by then, or sell this cafe, I'll be there (lotto seems more likely at this stage!!!)

To those of you wondering if you should go and meet up with these guys, I thoroughly recommend it!!

[Paxter]

Excellent, thanks for volunteering the first round!

Btw, this one had some really good reviews, apparently best of all the X-Men movies. So may not want to miss out on it!

So I have to like X-Men because the critics like it? FO.

[karaddin]

No you don't have to like it, you just have to sit in it and appreciate Hugh Jackman like Brook will be. I'll appreciate Ellen Page.