Aussies LXII: ICAC, Budgets and Beer

[Lady Woodland]

I was pretty upset so my meaning was not clear - I meant to say I didn't call him abhorrent. you all have a right to your beliefs as do I. Please just let it go it's only making things worse. sorry I ever made the comment.

[arya_underfoot]

There's a great article in the fairfax papers by Mark Kenny about political funding that's well worth a read. In the current climate, with the stuff coming out of ICAC, all political parties and politicians need to examine their practice when it comes to soliciting donations. This stuff has apparently been going on for a long time, but I must confess I didn't realise how "American" the Australian political donation collection industry is. It's a bad look for anyone claiming to be clean and free of puppet strings.

[delete this account pls]

Most importantly I'm reasonably sure that Tasmania is also certified Brady-free!

Yes, I refuse to set foot off the mainland, but I'll make an exception to kick nasrudin's lily white arse.

[Lady Woodland]

Our channel 7 newsreader in Adelaide last night talking about the forthcoming Federal Budget - complete aSoIaF foreshadowing he really said

"Winter is Coming" :agree:

[Jeor]

There's a great article in the fairfax papers by Mark Kenny about political funding that's well worth a read. In the current climate, with the stuff coming out of ICAC, all political parties and politicians need to examine their practice when it comes to soliciting donations. This stuff has apparently been going on for a long time, but I must confess I didn't realise how "American" the Australian political donation collection industry is. It's a bad look for anyone claiming to be clean and free of puppet strings.

Interesting article. The problem is this whole thing is going to be ghastly difficult to regulate. That isn't an argument against at least trying - measures such as full disclosure, capping of donations, banning politicians from actively seeking financial support and so forth may help. But at the heart of it there's nothing to stop Millionaire X throwing money towards a third-party advertisement that supports Parliamentarian Y. The only way you could stop that is to ban political advertising altogether, in which case the game seeps further down into the cracks where it becomes a media game to see who can get the most interviews and secure the most air-time through other unpaid means.

Perhaps there are other measures that can be taken to stop politicians from actively soliciting such financial support. You can legislate and stop any direct support (ie straight from citizen to MP's bank account) or at least make sure it is publicised, but there is very little that can be done about arm's-length indirect support that is funnelled through a third party. What if I ran for election, and some of my old school friends that I hadn't seen for years banded together to form a group that raised money to help their little club in my re-election bid?

In the US there are the so-called superpacs where there are literally hundreds of millions of dollars pouring into such third-party organisations which the politicians aren't directly involved in but implicitly support each other. In addition you have lobbyists like the NRA that directly campaign for pro-gun politicians. I don't like it, but short of banning any political advertising I don't know whether there's much that can be done about it. I'm thinking a media blackout at least a few weeks before election day, but apart from that I'm really not sure.

[Horza]

Labor, Greens, Coalition unanimously approve Senate voting reform

Labor, the coalition and the Australian Greens have agreed to an overhaul of the Senate voting system.

It is understood parliament's joint standing committee on electoral matters will hand down on Friday a unanimous report recommending historic changes to Senate voting.

Currently, voters must either put a "1" in only one box above the line or fill in every box below the line on a ballot paper.

Voting above the line hands the flow of preferences over to the parties who lodge "group voting tickets" with the Australian Electoral Commission.

In recent years there have been concerns that group voting tickets have been gamed by the so-called micro-parties, enabling low-profile candidates to win Senate seats with very small proportions of the total vote.

The committee report is expected to recommend moving to a system similar to that operating in the NSW upper house.

Voters would be able to cast preferences above the line, with any preferences deemed to run through each nominated party's listed candidates in their nominated order before moving on to the next nominated party.

Voters would still be able to vote "1" above the line, or preference candidates below the line.

Like all changes to the voting system this is clearly intended to protect incumbent parties from outside challengers, but when said challengers are relying on collusion and confusing voters to win seats I don't have a problem with that.

[Gillio]

Horza, are you sure? That sounds remarkably like common sense! And they agreed on it? Amazing!

I hope this is the start of a new common sense in politics trend!

[karaddin]

No need to fret Gillio, merely a case of that rare concordance of self interest and the right outcome. No need to fear an outbreak of common sense.

[Stubby]

Perhaps it was about common cents?

[karaddin]

No I believe those are the ones that are going to be lost to the petrol excise, filthy lowborn cents.

[Stubby]

No I believe those are the ones that are going to be lost to the petrol excise, filthy lowborn cents.

I've being trying to forget that since I heard it on the wireless last night.

[Jeor]

Budget isn't going to be pretty. But as a young single working male I'm fairly sure no budget is ever going to be good for me until I become a "working family".

Electoral changes sound decent enough. I think the amount of random senators in the last one was enough for the major parties to agree to cut off that particular loophole. It may also hopefully result in fewer shady deals or pork-barrel spending being done in the Senate if there are less individual negotiators...but that may be a pipe dream.

[arya_underfoot]

Whilst I don't have a problem with minor players in parliament, using dodgy tactics to slither into the Senate ahead of candidates whom many more people actually meant to vote for is just plain wrong. Unfortunately, the other side of this story is that unless you're a major party candidate, an established independent voice like Xenophon or super-rich like good old Clive, getting into politics is going to be virtually impossible for you.

The petrol excise is a bs tax. However, there is some poetic justice in the fact that reducing and fixing the rate of this tax played a role in prolonging Howard's time in office, whereas increasing and re-indexing it will probably play a role in shortening Abbott's PMship.

Jeor makes a valid point about "family" welfare. I had no idea until we had a baby recently about something called a family tax benefit. I don't understand how it works, but we get $140 a fortnight into our bank account for......no clear reason as far as I can tell. This is something they really should get rid of. No one in their right minds would think that they deserve it, though having said that, we're taking it as long as it's easily available.

[Horza]

Whilst I don't have a problem with minor players in parliament, using dodgy tactics to slither into the Senate ahead of candidates whom many more people actually meant to vote for is just plain wrong. Unfortunately, the other side of this story is that unless you're a major party candidate, an established independent voice like Xenophon or super-rich like good old Clive, getting into politics is going to be virtually impossible for you.

Eh, compared to the stuff Labor and the Coalition could have rammed through - upping registration reqs (wait, looks like that's happening) a minimum vote cutoff, etc - minor parties got off (EDIT: pretty) easy. The parties whose sole strategy was fooling people into voting for them aren't to be pitied here.

[brook]

Jeor makes a valid point about "family" welfare. I had no idea until we had a baby recently about something called a family tax benefit. I don't understand how it works, but we get $140 a fortnight into our bank account for......no clear reason as far as I can tell. This is something they really should get rid of. No one in their right minds would think that they deserve it, though having said that, we're taking it as long as it's easily available.

I assume you mean tax benefit B? I would 't claim to 'deserve' it? but I sure as fuck appreciate the fact it helps keep my kids fed though and would very much like it not to be cut entirely.

A better solution would be to merge it into Tax Benefit A which has a tighter family income test and if necessary then reduce the top end of when that cuts out.

[Lady Woodland]

I just watched the channel 7 Sunday night show with Charlotte Dawson's last interview. It made me very sad to know she couldn't bring herself to reach out to friends to prevent her death. At the same time I can also completely understand. Some of the Aussies' here are aware of a fellow poster who has recently had some similar set back with depression. From the little I know of his circumstances & watching Charlotte's story it seems the common denominator is relationships with others.

I have 2 sons 21 & 22 & I can't burden them with my problems, I've never found it easy to make friends, I push people away as a defence mechanism so my issues are probably more significant than depression. The last real girlfriend I had was over a year ago & she totally betrayed me & a romantic relationship is out of the question due to my fear of intimacy. I can discuss this with & counsellors but it just doesn't help. I'm currently changing my medication as a last ditch effort to keep going. It's not like I'm sitting around feeling sorry for myself, I go to gym at least every other day but the endorphins are not kicking in for me. I've cut out breads & carbs, don't drink alcohol anymore, I've lost 6 kilo in the past 2 months but nothing seems to help.

I feel so selfish wanting to die, I know there are so many people with incurable illnesses that would hate my attitude & they have every right to think me selfish & ungrateful & they would be right. However similar to Charlotte, I'm on the other side of 50, I work a casual job & have just found out it's likely to end before too long, I don't know if I'll get another job, I've started looking but it's awful out there & I don't hold out much hope. What are you supposed to do I can't survive on welfare & don't want too, why shouldn't Australia have a right to die law, I know logistically I probably wouldn't fit the criteria as I'm not physically dying, but the pain of getting up every day with no reason to live is so painful. I don't want to be a burden physically or financially to anyone.

[north of the wall]

I just watched the channel 7 Sunday night show with Charlotte Dawson's last interview. It made me very sad to know she couldn't bring herself to reach out to friends to prevent her death. At the same time I can also completely understand. Some of the Aussies' here are aware of a fellow poster who has recently had some similar set back with depression. From the little I know of his circumstances & watching Charlotte's story it seems the common denominator is relationships with others.

I have 2 sons 21 & 22 & I can't burden them with my problems, I've never found it easy to make friends, I push people away as a defence mechanism so my issues are probably more significant than depression. The last real girlfriend I had was over a year ago & she totally betrayed me & a romantic relationship is out of the question due to my fear of intimacy. I can discuss this with & counsellors but it just doesn't help. I'm currently changing my medication as a last ditch effort to keep going. It's not like I'm sitting around feeling sorry for myself, I go to gym at least every other day but the endorphins are not kicking in for me. I've cut out breads & carbs, don't drink alcohol anymore, I've lost 6 kilo in the past 2 months but nothing seems to help.

I feel so selfish wanting to die, I know there are so many people with incurable illnesses that would hate my attitude & they have every right to think me selfish & ungrateful & they would be right. However similar to Charlotte, I'm on the other side of 50, I work a casual job & have just found out it's likely to end before too long, I don't know if I'll get another job, I've started looking but it's awful out there & I don't hold out much hope. What are you supposed to do I can't survive on welfare & don't want too, why shouldn't Australia have a right to die law, I know logistically I probably wouldn't fit the criteria as I'm not physically dying, but the pain of getting up every day with no reason to live is so painful. I don't want to be a burden physically or financially to anyone.

you can pm me if you want to talk about anything. there was lots of advice on the thread and I dont want to sound repeatative but there is a lot of finacially viable options here in australia. We are very lucky for that. I've had experience personally and professionally with mental health issues and am more than to be someone to vent to if you want or to help find some services in your area if that might help. Please reach out to someone (me or member on board or profession or the helpline) doesnt matter who it is as long as you know you are not alone.

[Paxter]

So...a snapshot of what we are going to get tomorrow (from The Guardian). I mainly have a problem with 3) and 4). And 8) in a way.

My list, at the present time, looks like this. (I wanted to give you the budget in ten points, but curse those facts, they give me the budget in twelve points.)

1. A deficit tax, most likely on incomes above $150,000.
   
2. A restoration of the indexation of fuel excise – scrapped by John Howard in 2001; and changes to the ethanol subsidy.
   
3. A winding back of welfare and family tax benefits, and scaling back the paid parental leave scheme.
   
4. Co-payments for government services, like visits to the doctor – and if I'm reading the code correctly, on visits to the emergency room.
   
5. An increase in the pension age to 70 in 2035.
   
6. Closing the military superannuation scheme.
   
7. Further cuts to the public service above the existing efficiency dividend.
   
8. A freeze on parliamentarian's pay.
   
9. Preparing the ground for a number of privatisations at the Commonwealth level, including the Royal Australian Mint.
   
10. An infrastructure package, which is essentially roads; and an asset recycling program which will encourage the states to sell businesses they own in order to obtain a bonus payment from Canberra.
    
11. Cancelling the ABC's Australia Network contract.
    
12. Possibly deregulating university fees.
    

[karaddin]

I've got issues with 10) and 12), but there is basically no pain for me in that for a budget that we are all sharing the pain on! Moving to Newtown on the weekend entailed an awful lot of pain, and I had today off sick I was so sore (with bonus migraine!)

LW - Not much to add here that I didn't say in the other thread, but if the counsellors you are seeing haven't been working for you it can be worth trying others if you have them available - sometimes it just takes finding the right one. I hope you start feeling better soon.

[Horza]

1 is being used to save having to make more unpopular cuts, it's lazy policy any way you look at it.

2 is slightly regressive but does raise a fair bit of revenue

3 and 4 are terrible ideas, and 5 doesn't actually address the biggest source of future claims as it avoids the Baby Boom generation entirely. While it would be cruel to push the pension out for those currently about to retire it would actually save money in the medium term as they are the largest age cohort in recent Australian history.

Don't know enough about 6, as for 7 - the history of deep cuts to the public service is one of waste, loss of service and eventual rehiring.

8 is a stunt, the real MP gouge is super and entitlements

9-11 meh

12 not surprising.