[Book/Show Spoilers] Anyone else surprised at Sandor/Arya scene?

[Gabriel Belmont the Dragon]

I liked the scene sandor teaching arya some real world hardship.

[Shebara]

I was pleasantly surprised that she actually tried to stab him. They were getting a bit too friendly and that scene showed them as the violent, tough-as-nails motherfuckers they both are. I also like that he's still in her prayer. That's true to her characterization on the book as well: even after he saved her, she still held a grudge about Mycah and about him not saving Cat and Robb (as if he could have)

As for Brienne and Pod, I think an almost-encounter with Arya and Sandor is a must

In the books as far as I remember Brienne is finally reaching the coast on her journey and sees Aryas ship (not knowing that Arya is on it) disappearing for Braavos. That is the close to meeting point in the books.

[The_Lone_Direwolf]

I think that the Hound's assessment that having armor and a sword is superior and that Syrio must be dead isn't necessarily true and shows that he has certain assumptions about what it means to be a good fighter. The Hound assumes that a big sword and armor will always beat "water dancing" but being smarter and more agile than your opponent (playing the mental game) can also be effective. Faceless Men rely on stealth and smarts, which I think is far more dangerous than a large sword as was shown by Jaqen at Harrenhall.

Good call and this could also be the show's way of subtly leading us up to the prize fight of the season, the Mountain vs the Red Viper...

Gregor is the living embodiment of the Hound's assumptions (which can't be a coincidence he was mentioned in their scene before this one and of course is his brother) and as seen in the season previews we are going to get to see Oberyn's version of 'water dancing' with his spear work.

Oberyn in the books wears a light scaled armor I think but I bet in the show he will barely wear any.

[Le Cygne]

Why should he suddenly pop up in her mind now? :dunno:

Apart from the book story, which is quite detailed and ongoing, when we last checked in with her, she was pretending they kissed/placing him in the marriage bed, and that the author said there's something there, books and show... They spent time on a bunch of scenes with interactions between them that served no purpose in telling the larger story.

She is told his story and cheers for him when he is the hero at her father's tourney... putting his hand on her shoulder and staring down Ilyn Payne when she was afraid... a sexy scene in the hallway the author wrote and said was "beautiful"... a scene framing the two where the showrunners comment, "the developing relationship between these two... much more to come"... dabbing her lip after she is beaten, to Joffrey's dismay... lying for her to Joffrey to protect her... giving her his cloak after being visibly upset to see her beaten... another sexy scene in the hallway (he's holding her hand when Tyrion scene bombs to set up the Shae as Sansa's maid scheme, but she looks after Sandor as he goes)... standing by her in the flowering scene when she's crying and he is visibly upset (check out a hi res screencap, he looks like he wants to cry, too)... the rescue scene filmed romantically and he calls her little bird twice... another hallway scene where there's again a hint of sexuality picking up on the last hallway scene, and he looks after her (that's quite the look he gives her)... a goodbye scene written by the author and staged like the goodbye scene in his favorite version of Beauty and the Beast (and yeah, he has a theater named after him, Jean Cocteau) where their costars comment "he loves you" and start singing Beauty and the Beast... a scene last season where he says to her sister ask her if you ever see her again who was there for her...

That's a lot of detail on the show, too, and we know they cut a lot of things. But not that.

(Added another scene...)

[Newstar]

I wouldn't worry until and unless Sandor is unambiguously killed off in the show, and if he survives the season, it's a pretty safe bet he's being kept alive for something.

I think the writers were trying to do something with SanSan, even if they made a botch of it: the riot scene and the deleted scene that should have gone into 2x03 suggested as much. I think it's more a matter of good intentions with a sloppy execution rather than a deliberate attempt to eliminate any hint of SanSan. Again, with the 2x03 scene with SanSan, they went so far as to shoot it and include it as a deleted scene on the DVD. If they were deliberately trying to downplay it, they wouldn't have done that.

...although Tyrion also wound up in that 2x03 scene though he wasn't in the equivalent scene in the books, playing the benevolent intervener to Sandor's antagonist, so I dunno.

With TV Sandor, I do feel like the writers didn't really feel comfortable writing for him until Season 3. When they found their sea legs and had settled on the characterization that they wanted, then the Hound's storyline took off. I think SanSan suffered as a result, but I don't think that was the intent.

Also, and I know mileage varies on this, in my opinion McCann's acting did him NO favours. He's improved in Season 4, but it's too little, too late where SanSan interactions are concerned, since for the published book material that window closed in Season 2.

I do think the TV version of the Sansa/Tyrion relationship was probably more palatable to the TV writers, since it was easier to play it off as something purely platonic or even pseudo-parental. Can't really do that with Sandor.

Long story short, TV SanSan was a bit of a shitshow in Season 2, I agree, but I think that the writers did try and that it just didn't work for a number of reasons. I don't think that failure necessarily means anything significant for future events in the books, though.

[Zorn Gottes]

Apart from the book story, which is quite detailed and ongoing, when we last checked in with her, she was pretending they kissed/placing him in the marriage bed, and that the author said there's something there, books and show... They spent time on a bunch of scenes with interactions between them that served no purpose in telling the larger story.

She is told his story and cheers for him when he is the hero at her father's tourney... a sexy scene in the hallway the author wrote and said was beautiful... a scene framing the two where the showrunners comment, "the developing relationship between these two... much more to come"... dabbing her lip after she is beaten, to Joffrey's dismay... lying for her to Joffrey to protect her... giving her his cloak after being visibly upset to see her beaten... another sexy scene in the hallway... standing by her in the flowering scene when she's crying and he is visibly upset (check out a hi res screencap, he looks like he wants to cry, too)... the rescue scene filmed romantically and he calls her little bird twice... another hallway scene where there's again a hint of sexuality picking up on the last hallway scene, and he looks after her (that's quite the look he gives her)... a goodbye scene written by the author and staged like the goodbye scene in his favorite version of Beauty and the Beast (and yeah, he has a theater named after him, Jean Cocteau) where their costars comment "he loves you" and start singing Beauty and the Beast... a scene last season where he says to her sister ask her if you ever see her again who was there for her...

That's a lot of detail on the show, too, and we know they cut a lot of things. But not that.

I hope you are right, but my impression, from the scenes you listed, is that in the show only his feelings were well established, and since when they departed from each other, she doesn't even seem to remember he ever existed... In addition, all she talks about now is how a good person is Tyrion (I'm still feebly hoping it will not turn into oh how I miss Tyrion) :dunno:

[Karmarni]

It seems that the Sandor/Arya scenes on this episode set up a few things to come. Gregor and Sandor and Sandor's thoughts on him; the Hound being the last name and that she then went to stab him suggest that she will remove him from the list and not kill him; the reference to Meryn and the slap will call back Sansa's slap by Meryn - with Arya saying Sandor shouldn't have hit her; the armor and a big sword - McCann says he's in a shirt in a Rolling Stone interview so this may be how he goes down. All setting up the 'you shouldn't have hit me' and his remorse for Sansa.

[Newstar]

I hope you are right, but my impression, from the scenes you listed, is that in the show only his feelings were well established, and since when they departed from each other, she doesn't even seem to remember he ever existed... In addition, all she talks about now is how a good person is Tyrion (I'm still feebly hoping it will not turn into oh how I miss Tyrion) :dunno:

That could just be simple Tyrion whitewashing.

I will say, though, that if I was one of the TV writers and I was trying to lay the groundwork for a future relationship between a (currently) 14-year-old female character and a male character almost three times as old as she is, the way the show has written the TV version of the Sansa/Tyrion relationship to date would be exactly how I would play it.

[Envie]

I was disappointed with how GRRM left the Hound's strory in ADWD. I know it left it wide open for a whole lot of theories and speculation but sadly my spidey senses are telling me this is just another one of those he's killed off after getting our hopes up for another 'redemption' character. The Hound has always been one we wanted to be redeemed so badly - because of his face / brother - there's so much we can sympathize with. They've also done such a fantastic job portraying him in the show - and the actor is perfect for the role.

[Le Cygne]

Also don't think the ages are an issue... Sansa is close enough to 16 (was 15 at the end of last season, and some time has passed), Sandor is playing 30's.

Here's the link setting her at 15-16:

http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Sansa_Stark

[The Prophet of Patch]

Not sure if anyone else mentioned this (I skimmed), but the first of the two Arya/Hound scenes seemed like pretty strong foreshadowing of the Hound taking his wound from the Mountain. I think it would work really well for the format, since it would introduce new-Gregor, remind show-watchers that he's Sandor's brother, and give us a little Mountain fighting before episode 8.

[Le Cygne]

I hope you are right, but my impression, from the scenes you listed, is that in the show only his feelings were well established, and since when they departed from each other, she doesn't even seem to remember he ever existed... In addition, all she talks about now is how a good person is Tyrion (I'm still feebly hoping it will not turn into oh how I miss Tyrion) :dunno:

Just seeing this, I am not at all saying it's good, just seeing what I think they may be up to. The author is telling a really detailed, layered story for them in the books. Look at it this way, even if the show scenes were all about Sandor, that wouldn't make sense to include all of that detail (look again at what I listed, that's all stuff that would be cut if it didn't matter) just for him, they care even less about him than her.

Don't see the Tyrion thing at all, books or show, so can't speak to that. I could list a bunch of examples showing why that's out (and never was in), but to take yours, everyone is talking about how good Tyrion is. Look at Bronn's scene with Jaime, chiding Jaime for not getting on board the whitewashing express, with the tender story of his devotion, and the scene with Pod, presenting the whitewashing gift with another tender story reference.

[Annara Snow]

I highly doubt Arya listing The Hound on her kill list as well as trying to poke him with Needle 'hurt Sandor's feelings' much. He thinks she's an annoying little twat for the most part and a pain in his ass that he's only keeping around because he wants hostage gold for her skinny butt. They do NOT have a very amiable relationship in the books or on the show either one and I was personally glad to see the audience reminded of that when he slapped her hard enough to make her mouth bleed. I love Arya to death, don't get me wrong - she's probably one of my top three favorite stories / characters of all time in the books but she's got a long ways to go in learning her role and this scene played that up perfectly. The Hound is reminding her just how far she's got to go before she ever hopes to kill a man in a fight. It reinforces her need to learn sneakier / assassin ways and gets us excited for her Braavos journey.

Then why does he tell her about saving Sansa and go on about how he's not such a bad guy (in both book and show)? Why is he trying to make her like him?

Yes, I agree. It's brutal, but then again, she did just stab him - and that was no play stab, he is on her list - and I think if it was anyone else but Arya Stark that person would be dead shortly after hitting the ground.

I think one thing about their relationship is: the Hound sees himself when he sees her - seething, cynical and hate-filled. She may be highborn but is no respecter of social rank, and neither is he. One part of this similarity is that when Arya judges him, she judges him the way he'd judge himself. Would he forgive someone like himself for Mycah? Deep down, no.

I think this is why the Hound feels some unspoken obligation to keep her around, and even teach her a bit of the real-world. If it was for truly mercenary reasons (like the way Bronn is), he'd have bound her up and delivered her to some Freys for a quick reward.

Now that's much truer, IMO, to how Sandor really feels about Arya.

The show is getting it wrong by making it seem like Sandor has to tell Arya that the world is awful and you get nowhere by being honorable etc. Arya, at least book!Arya, doesn't need to be told any of that, she's already dark and nihilistic, at an even younger age. Sansa is the one Sandor sees as an innocent idealist, as his former innocent child self, who needs to be taught that the world is awful, Arya is the angry, traumatized child that he became because of Gregor and the way others let Gregor get away with everything and made him a knight. (Oddly enough, Maisie talked in interviews about Arya being empty and dark this season.)

^Agree, it was poorly filmed. Wasn't it Michele MacLaren who said before that she didn't get the Hound? Funny since she's touted as the 'action' director. Yes, it seems they are using Sandor to prop up Arya. He did seem fine staying in the village with her until they kicked him out.

There were calls of whitewashing the Hound in Season 2. And he was chivalric to Sansa. And then we get an even more angry, gruff, harsh Hound with Arya. He baited her about Mycah when he cried on the book, he was going to kill the pig farmer on the show, when he didn't for the reader. He hits the man who takes him in and steals from him, he smacks Arya just like Meryn did Sansa right in the scene where they were talking about Meryn.

I'm not sure I understand the change. Did they think he wasn't dangerous enough before? They made the choices they did to him with Sansa. They gave Littlefinger his story, the changed GRRM's script with the song and used the 'you won't hurt me' line from the deleted scene with them and therefore cut it from the aired episode.

About not crying... It's symptomatic of the way that the show turns characters into the stereotypes they are subverting in the books, and especially the way they treat gender. On the show, little girls cry a lot (especially if they're Sansa, but Myrcella cries too, and I think even Arya cried), in the scenes where they don't actually cry in the books, but grown men never cry, especially if they're big and strong warriors, even though Sandor crying during his emotional meltdowns was so memorable and an integral part of his strongest scenes. But the show would rather have typical 'badass' anti-hero characters spouting comic one-liners (that's also why they like Bronn so much), which apparently gets a great response, than having to deal with such confusing things as 2 m tall huge scary warrior dudes being vulnerable and crying "like a baby" (quote: Arya Stark in the book) because of the childhood trauma that's defined their entire life and personality, and ladylike and apparently meek little girls who offer comfort to the huge scary warrior dude who's having an emotional meltdown and turning into a 6-yer old boy abused by his big brother.

Maybe they cut all of the Sansa-Sandor references in the show because it's obvious the show prefers dwelling with the Sansa-Tyrion scenario. Sansa already has left the capital and in most of her scenes from there she spoke nicely of Tyrion.

I hope the show doesn't go this extreme and instead of having Sansa thinking about Sandor in the Vale she starts fantasizing about Tyrion. :eek:

I hope you are right, but my impression, from the scenes you listed, is that in the show only his feelings were well established, and since when they departed from each other, she doesn't even seem to remember he ever existed... In addition, all she talks about now is how a good person is Tyrion (I'm still feebly hoping it will not turn into oh how I miss Tyrion) :dunno:

Thing is, she only talked about Tyrion in the scenes where she also talked about Tyrion in the book, because he came up in conversation for logical reasons - with LF when they talk about Joffrey's murder, and with Lysa when they talk about Sansa's marriage. She has a more positive opinion of him in the show, yes - they changed her mildly positive statements/mild defenses of Tyrion from the book into stronger positive statements and stronger defenses of Tyrion. Which is consistent with how Tyrion has been portrayed in the show, and how their relationship was portrayed in season 3 - and which is also emblematic of the show's general attempts to portray Tyrion as a total nice guy, and to minimize conflicts between the "good guy" characters (they want to make sure that everyone likes Tyrion despite him having married a 14-year old captive of his family against her will, because they think the show needs an unambiguously likable protagonist, and they also want people to like Sansa now, instead of bitching that she's "not nice" to their favorite character... as so many do in the book fandom).

However, while there's a big difference in the degree of positivity, the fact remains that book!Sansa, at this point, also talked about Tyrion to LF and Lysa, just as much as show!Sansa did, and also talked positively about him - she tells Lysa that Tyrion didn't consummate the marriage because he was "kind" (and that's book!Tyrion, who made her get naked, groped her breast and made her see him naked and erect, which she was quite traumatized by) and only checks herself when she realizes that she can't say something like that to Lysa because Lysa hates Tyrion so much, so she quickly changes it to "He had whores, he told me" (which he did, in the book, unlike the show)...

... and the fact remains also that book!Sansa also never talks about Sandor, to anyone. The difference is that we know Sansa's internal thoughts in the books. The show sucks at conveying people's internal thoughts or subtext. I've resigned myself to the fact that GoT is not Six Feet Under or The Sopranos and there will be no dream scenes or fantasy scenes showing what the characters are feeling. That's why it also seems like the Stark kids almost never think about each other. That's why there's barely any foreshadowing of R+L=J, or... well anything, really. They just have a "previously on" and drop a plot twist. That's why Jon is like - oh, Ghost, I missed you! - well, you wouldn't have known that he missed Ghost before this episode, would you. If the alternative is to have Sansa talk about Sandor all the time like they made Sam talk about Gilly after they left the Craster's the first time (because the subtext has to be either spelled out or ignored), I'd much rather not have her mention him, especially since it makes no sense in her case. Who would she talk about him to? It's not like Lysa or LF or Margaery were going to ask her about him. Nobody knows about their connection, it's one of the few secrets Sansa has even from Littlefinger, and Sandor is completely under the radar of Littlefinger. If Sansa were careless and stupid enough to start talking about him, now that would change the storyline considerably, if Sandor is to play a role in Sansa's story in the future. The show may have unintentionally made LF stupider than he is in the books, but even show!LF would not be that stupid not to catch onto something like that if Sansa was open about it. He's trying to isolate her and convince her that everyone else is untrustworthy, in the book he made sure to let her know (through Dontos) that the Tyrells don't care about her, then he kills Dontos and tells her that Dontos was never her friend and was in it just for the money, then he tells her Tyrion is a monster who gave his first wife to his guards to rape when he got bored of her... (although it's never clear if Sansa actually believed the latter) because LF wants her to think he is her only friend. If Sandor is to play some role in Sansa's story before LF loses her grip on her, it's probably important that LF does not have him on his radar.

I seriously doubt it. Sophie said in a recent interview, Sansa doesn't love Tyrion, and on the recap said marrying him was the worst day in Sansa's life.

There was also a video interview (one of the interviews she was giving before season 4 premiered) where she made a very strong "UGH" expression/body language when asked about Sansa being married to Tyrion. (I can't find that video now, I've seen lots of cast interviews at the time of the easom 4 premiere.) She may have been cagey about Sansa's storyline in some aspects (like smiling and saying she can't say anything about whether Sansa will be seen at a location other than KL) but she never went so far to actually lie and feign Sansa/herself having a completely different feeling about something than it really is.

If that were the case, Pod would end up with Tyrion. Shae would end up with Tyrion. Bronn would end up with Tyrion. Even Cersei would end up with Tyrion before this season. They've painted scenes of each of these characters with him FAR nicer than in the books, and them far nicer to him in return. The whole show is a love story between Tyrion/Westeros. When he goes to Essos, it will be Tyrion/Essos. Watch out, Jorah, you are about to lose your story, too.

Don't forget Margaery! Margaery will end up with Tyrion more than anyone else, remember how she talked about Tyrion's good looks and his skills in bed (how would she even know that?)! Even Robb may have ended up with Tyrion - they didn't have Robb and Cat learn about Sansa's marriage on the show and express anger and disgust because they assumed Tyrion was raping her and trying to get her pregnant to strengthen the Lannister claim to Winterfell, and they didn't have Robb say that Sansa will be murdered by the Lannisters as soon as she gives them an heir, or that he will make Sansa a widow by cutting Tyrion's head. File that under the same "minimize conflicts and bad thoughts between protagonists" category as show!Dany never saying anything negative about Ned Stark and never using the term "Usurper's dogs" - apparently, the audience can't deal with the concept of sympathetic characters being in conflict with each other due to circumstances or because they don't know the whole story. (Well, they're quite right in that regard: I've seen so much bitching about Dany for that reason among book fans, because apparently she's a horrible person for having a bad opinion about a man she's never met and that she's only ever known about as one of the men who waged war against her family and were responsible for their demise, in Viserys' heavily biased and whitewashed version of RR, which nobody else she knows has cared to seriously challenge.)

I think it's really Tyrion who's lost his story, more than anyone. Book!Tyrion is widely unpopular, almost nobody likes him, he has a horrible reputation, the highborn find the idea of marrying their daughters to the Imp an insult, he's been dealing with that all his life, and even when people don't hate him, he thinks they do because he's used to thinking that everyone does (as when he thinks that Sansa hates him or that she would rather marry Lancel). He's very insecure, needy and proud and has a bunch of issues. Show!Tyrion is just this good, funny and cool guy who happens to be a dwarf, but is genuinely liked or loved by lots of people, highborn girls like Margaery apparently think he's good marriage material, he has a lover who really loves him as opposed to pretending to because she's paid for it - why would he have issues? I'm really curious how the upcoming trial and Tyrion's dark turn is dealt with and what response it gets from the audience.

[Envie]

Then why does he tell her about saving Sansa and go on about how he's not such a bad guy (in both book and show)? Why is he trying to make her like him?

I don't know - because that's how the show writers and many readers interpreted it? There's certainly a lot you could potentially read into George's writing as he's often very subtle. Unlike the show, he doesn't feel the need to bash people over the head with clues (or pop them in the mouth) but then again, what he does give is pretty clear once you've read it a couple of times. It took me a re-read to really 'get' a lot of what I've read and am now interpreting over to the television version.

While I do not think Sandor is as 'evil' as some watching the show may see him (he's definitely one of the better 'gray' characters of the book) I also do not see him as someone with deep feelings for Sansa or Arya either one. The SanSan theorists would disagree passionately, I'm sure. A lot of those 'hints' (little bird singing etc) were never expanded on and the last we saw of Sandor he was laying under a tree dying. There's just not a lot you can do with that now, in watching the show. Y'know?

I don't take anything I see in the show as a heavy hint anymore. D&D are making stuff up as they go along for quite a bit of the show (the Craster's Keep arc is a good example) and so I'm not going to speculate on Sandor's 'feelings' based on him slapping Arya on the show. It just didn't happen and who knows what D&D think his character should be or thinks - they are, like us, interpreting the books in their own way.

[Tixu Oty]

... and the fact remains also that book!Sansa also never talks about Sandor, to anyone. The difference is that we know Sansa's internal thoughts in the books. The show sucks at conveying people's internal thoughts or subtext. I've resigned myself to the fact that GoT is not Six Feet Under or The Sopranos and there will be no dream scenes or fantasy scenes showing what the characters are feeling.

[snip]

Nobody knows about their connection

Hmm it's true that the show. doesn't do subtext and is pretty straightforward which does eliminate a lot of possibilities. But if Sandor is relevant in Sansa's future storyline, there could still be somewhat subtle ways to let us know he's on her mind. They could have her drop a sneaky comment about true knights or judging books by their cover or I don't know what else, to a random non dangerous confidant such as Robin. You know, in the same way that Arya made that comment in season 3 about knowing a man who could kill the Hound with his little finger...

And it's one of the things I find absolutely fascinating about the Hound and Sansa, is that they manage to have such a peculiar relationship in a castle full of people without anybody ever suspecting that these two could possibly have anything to say to each other. So if it is to be relevant later on, then yes I imagine it would be important to let us know Sansa hasn't forgotten him, quite the contrary (don't they say absence makes the heart fonder or something to that effect) and I believe it can be done in a reasonably subtle way. Let us hope!

[Zorn Gottes]

... and the fact remains also that book!Sansa also never talks about Sandor, to anyone. The difference is that we know Sansa's internal thoughts in the books. The show sucks at conveying people's internal thoughts or subtext. I've resigned myself to the fact that GoT is not Six Feet Under or The Sopranos and there will be no dream scenes or fantasy scenes showing what the characters are feeling. That's why it also seems like the Stark kids almost never think about each other. That's why there's barely any foreshadowing of R+L=J, or... well anything, really. They just have a "previously on" and drop a plot twist. That's why Jon is like - oh, Ghost, I missed you! - well, you wouldn't have known that he missed Ghost before this episode, would you. If the alternative is to have Sansa talk about Sandor all the time like they made Sam talk about Gilly after they left the Craster's the first time (because the subtext has to be either spelled out or ignored), I'd much rather not have her mention him, especially since it makes no sense in her case.

Good point. But if they wanted to convey Sansa's feelings, they had the option to show that Sansa had kept his cloak, just like they did with the doll Ned gave her (during Blackwater, Sansa thoughfully snuggling the doll. Simple like that)

ETA: Instead, she is still wearing that damn wedding ring :huh:

[DogLover]

So you don't like dark fantasy at all?

If you say you do then you are bullshitting... Dark story and Dark fantasy is filled with racism, blood, gritty and horrifying with all hope for the ''good guys'' is extinguished whilst the bad guys live and the moral grey people like the hound is the people who live in dark fantasy. look at the witcher, and at Game of thrones/Asioaf... It's like it is for a reason.

What? :rolleyes: Just because I don't like the way the writers are characterizing the Hound on the show has nothing to do with how I feel about dark fantasy. The writers have taken an incredibly complex character who struggles with his moral compass and reduces him to a one-dimensional brute while whitewashing Arya, who is far darker in the books. The writers are also incredibly inconsistent with their storyline. It's all over the place--more like each of their scenes are individual skits rather than one continuous and cohesive story.

How is it that saying they reversed the characterization for the Hound and Arya on the show is not liking dark fantasy. It was actually more interesting with the woman being the darker character.

Arya and the Hound were heading in opposite directions in the books, Arya was heading where the Hound had been emotionally, and the Hound was heading away from that darker place. There was actually character development and a story taking place for Sandor (Arya even started calling him Sandor, imagine that, he has a name).

He had gone from hate driving him to love driving him, and that love was for someone Arya once loved, too. But she hasn't come up yet for some reason (even though he brought her up a dozen times in the books). Arya had lost those she loved and felt more and more like no one, hate was driving her now.

There was a last glimmer of who she once was with the Hound, maybe hating wasn't the way, maybe when you get to know someone, things don't look so black and white anymore. On to the House of Black and White.

So, you don't think it's possible DogLover likes, or has nothing against, dark fantasy, but actually dislikes bad dark fantasy?

Not really. Bad dark fantasy usually fits your description. Formulaic and vulgarly simplistic morality tales are just bad, even when the morality is turned upside down and "good guys" replace "bad guys" in the role of traditional losers. Thankfully, ASOIAF books are pretty far from that territory.

Exactly. :)

[Le Cygne]

So they matched the Jaime/Bronn scene here... they likey to do the matchy matchy.

Another matching scene, they do like to do those:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRYM6B7CTs8

[Aerys Blackfyre]

not surprised at all!

[Talking Hodor]

I don't think the Hound slapping Arya was out of line. He gave her one chance to demonstrate her fighting prowess, and she attempts to eviscerate him. He disarmed her and subdued his attempted killer. If anything, he did show restraint. He also gave her an important lesson about fighting. If he truly hated her, he wouldn't be trying to improve her fighting knowledge and skill. He wouldn't really even be talking to her. He respects her somewhat and probably would genuinely like her if she'd stop hating him.